300 grain A-Frame verses 300 grain Nosler Accu

[Jeff Oregon]

Broke in my new 375 H&H and then started looking for a good load for Brown bear, hunt is 1 month away. I am a big fan a Accubond but for dangerous game I want to hunt with A-Frames. After working up several loads with both brands I found the Accubond shoots much better. Typicaly the Nosler is running moa or less and Swift running closer to 2 moa. Attached is a picture from my last outing. Both groups will kill a Brown bear but I really want to hunt with the Accubond because it is more accurate. Is 1 moa to much to ask from the Swift hunting bullet?Anyone have thoughts on this? My first shot at a bear should be under 200 yards so should I stick with the A-Frame?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Jeff

 

[Bert the Turtle]

First thought is that for a hunting bullet, once accuracy is adequate, terminal performance is more important than additional accuracy.

Second thought is that I am not a consistent enough shot to base any decision on a three-shot group. I honestly could not say for absolute sure that I had a 1 MOA group vs 2 MOA rather than a 1 MOA group vs a second 1 MOA group with a shooter-induced flyer, a gust of wind, etc. I'd be looking at 10 shot groups before even thinking of declaring one more accurate than the other.

Third thought is that 300 yards is a fairly long shot on most game and either group is adequate to put the bullet in the vitals of an animal big enough to need a 375HH.

A nice tight group is always desirable, all else being equal, but all else is not equal. There aren't scoring rings on an animal, so yes, make sure the accuracy is adequate, but obsessive concern over accuracy is more important on the target range than the hunting field.

 

[shootist~]

How about seating depth? My A-Frames, 30 cal, not .375, shoot good at .050"off the lands as well as .135" off. Sub MOA at .050 off now, but so-so until after I glass bedded the rifle.

 

[Saul]

I was going to enquire about seating depth too.

 

[Jeff Oregon]

How about seating depth? My A-Frames, 30 cal, not .375, shoot good at .050"off the lands as well as .135" off. Sub MOA at .050 off now, but so-so until after I glass bedded the rifle.

Thanks for your thoughts! The Nosler round is much closer to the lands. The A-Frame has a crimp ring that i want to use so I am stuck at a big jump.

 

[Jeff Oregon]

First thought is that for a hunting bullet, once accuracy is adequate, terminal performance is more important than additional accuracy.

Second thought is that I am not a consistent enough shot to base any decision on a three-shot group. I honestly could not say for absolute sure that I had a 1 MOA group vs 2 MOA rather than a 1 MOA group vs a second 1 MOA group with a shooter-induced flyer, a gust of wind, etc. I'd be looking at 10 shot groups before even thinking of declaring one more accurate than the other.

Third thought is that 300 yards is a fairly long shot on most game and either group is adequate to put the bullet in the vitals of an animal big enough to need a 375HH.

A nice tight group is always desirable, all else being equal, but all else is not equal. There aren't scoring rings on an animal, so yes, make sure the accuracy is adequate, but obsessive concern over accuracy is more important on the target range than the hunting field.

Thanks for the reply. The attached picture just shows an example of what I keep getting. I have close to 100 rounds through this gun and the A-Frame is almost always a much larger group.

 

[Sarg]

First good grouping, shooting a 375 H&H at 300yds well done & I love A frames for thick skinned game, they will work well but the AB will do you on a Brown Bear, either will work for you & grouping is fine .

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Broke in my new 375 H&H and then started looking for a good load for Brown bear, hunt is 1 month away. I am a big fan a Accubond but for dangerous game I want to hunt with A-Frames. After working up several loads with both brands I found the Accubond shoots much better. Typicaly the Nosler is running moa or less and Swift running closer to 2 moa. Attached is a picture from my last outing. Both groups will kill a Brown bear but I really want to hunt with the Accubond because it is more accurate. Is 1 moa to much to ask from the Swift hunting bullet?Anyone have thoughts on this? My first shot at a bear should be under 200 yards so should I stick with the A-Frame?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Jeff
View attachment 422042

Never hunted Brown Bear, but seems like a 300 yard shot is a long poke, very much so, for a first shot. So I'd guess the A-Frame load at 100 yards would be more than adequate.

My M70 loves the 300gr A-Frames with IMR4350 behind it. If you have some, maybe give that a go. The load I have actually exceeds maximum, but I worked up to it slowly and do not see pressure signs.

You may also wish to consider buying some North Fork soft points that are now available again from Reloading International, at least for the time being. My load for that is also IMR4350, but a couple a grain or two less than the A-Frame load.

 

[MMAL]

I am not sure I would use accubonds bullets on any dg except leopard. Nathan from bullet safaris loves accubonds for leopard because they expand quickly on the thin skin, lighter bone animal. I am not sure they would hold up to a shoulder shot of a brown bear.

I understand that there are more accurate bullets than a-frames. It took me awhile and a lot ladder testing to get an acceptable accuracy from my a frames in all of my guns. I will not shoot any other expandable except a frames for dg. That includes Barnes, Hornady, or woodleigh. All good bullets but IMO I think a frames are the best.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Several years ago I went brown bear hunting with well known Alaskan guide Butch King at Wildman Lake, way down on the Alaskan Peninsula. Butch really liked hunters to use Swift A-Frames. Doubt you will be taking 300 yard shots at big bears. More like 200 or closer.

My Montana elk guides all use 7mm mag and shoot Nosler AB bullets. They like the accuracy for taking out wolves and coyotes at 500-600 yards (I've watch them do this). However, they have told me the AB is a marginal bullet for elk. With that knowledge, I wouldn't use them on big bears.

 

[WAB]

Broke in my new 375 H&H and then started looking for a good load for Brown bear, hunt is 1 month away. I am a big fan a Accubond but for dangerous game I want to hunt with A-Frames. After working up several loads with both brands I found the Accubond shoots much better. Typicaly the Nosler is running moa or less and Swift running closer to 2 moa. Attached is a picture from my last outing. Both groups will kill a Brown bear but I really want to hunt with the Accubond because it is more accurate. Is 1 moa to much to ask from the Swift hunting bullet?Anyone have thoughts on this? My first shot at a bear should be under 200 yards so should I stick with the A-Frame?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Jeff
View attachment 422042

I find A-Frames very accurate. I shoot well under 1” groups with them in my .375 H&H. I see no reason to crimp a .375 so I would advise ignoring the cannelure and seat the bullet where you get the best accuracy.

 

[Jeff Oregon]

Several years ago I went brown bear hunting with well known Alaskan guide Butch King at Wildman Lake, way down on the Alaskan Peninsula. Butch really liked hunters to use Swift A-Frames. Doubt you will be taking 300 yard shots at big bears. More like 200 or closer.

My Montana elk guides all use 7mm mag and shoot Nosler AB bullets. They like the accuracy for taking out wolves and coyotes at 500-600 yards (I've watch them do this). However, they have told me the AB is a marginal bullet for elk. With that knowledge, I wouldn't use them on big bears.

Thanks for your thoughts! I will be hunting a reserve area on the Alaska Peninsula. There should be lots of bear feeding on salmon in the creeks (that's what the outfitter tells me?) and shot distance should be under 200. I want the rifle dialed at longer distance for any follow up shots that my be needed.

 

[shootist~]

I would be more concerned about where it hits at very close range.

 

[Jeff Oregon]

I find A-Frames very accurate. I shoot well under 1” groups with them in my .375 H&H. I see no reason to crimp a .375 so I would advise ignoring the cannelure and seat the bullet where you get the beat accuracy.

I hunted with a PH in Limpopo (I hunted the whole trip with his 375H&H) that was crimping his A-Frames and stated that his bullets in the magazine were moving and crimp was necessary. I thought maybe the hard recoil was the cause. Do you not have this problem? I would love to load them further out.

 

[WAB]

I hunted with a PH in Limpopo (I hunted the whole trip with his 375H&H) that was crimping his A-Frames and stated that his bullets in the magazine were moving and crimp was necessary. I thought maybe the hard recoil was the cause. Do you not have this problem? I would love to load them further out.

I have been reloading for the .375 for 25+ years. I have never crimped and I have never had a bullet move.

 

[Jonathan Kashouty]

Go with Swift and/or Barnes TSX for bear.

 

[Shootist43]

Jeff are you using a roll or taper crimp? How is your "neck tension" without any crimp? Have you tried any other loads and or powders with the Swift A Frames?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I noticed the velocity is 100 fps faster on the swift, and that you used a different powder. Try the 4350 behind the Swift and see how it likes it.

 

[TOBY458]

I noticed the velocity is 100 fps faster on the swift, and that you used a different powder. Try the 4350 behind the Swift and see how it likes it.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Rell]

This is easy! 300 grain a frame, get a Lee factory crimp die. Don’t mess about. It’s a big target and a soft bullet close to the lands Soinds like a really big disaster in the making. Reliability, reliability, terminal performance.