375 H&H and CRF

[308W]

Thanks to this forum and in particular to Mr. mark-hunter, in this thread I discovered something new: controlled feed action.

Since I'm thinking of a new purchase, yes, you got it right ... a 375 H & H, because many of you insist on explaining that it's INDISPENSABLE to hunt in Africa.

I do not believe it but for a moment I want to suppose it's true.
So this morning I called a friend, weapon dealer, asking him for a 375 H & H rifle to spend as little as possible.
His answer surprised me: "if you like a used one too, in this period there are big chances, you find semi-new rifles in this caliber 1/3 of their new price, these calibers no one buys them anymore."

He mentioned CZ and old glorious BRNO CZ perfect models, with prices from 500 to 1,500 euros optics and attacks included, but also many other brands.

I feel that I am making another useless purchase, but as the investment is modest I am willing to risk it.

In conclusion, how useful or indispensable is the action to be CFR?

What is the best brand and models produced with these CRF actions?

Is it better to use this caliber with iron sight or optical sight?

Thank you in advance for your advices.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thanks to this forum and in particular to Mr. mark-hunter, in this thread I discovered something new: controlled feed action.

Thanks for mentioning me, but I did not really say much on that subject, and there are more knoledgable people on this forum also!

He mentioned CZ and old glorious BRNO CZ perfect models, with prices from 500 to 1,500 euros optics and attacks included, but also many other brands.

Chech rifles BRNO/CZ have very good reputation, generally. And have history - as they are producing mauser since well before ww2, under license.
Take note that also after WW2, when Germany faced international ban on fireams production, english makers of bespoke rifles frequently used check actions for their production of bolt action rifles. (Either Westely richards, or Rigby, or both of them - I need to check details for this in my library, so dont hold me on my word fo this)
Today from Europan makers, you may or could find older masuers from Browning FN - Belgium, Check Brno or newer CZ, Serbian "Zastava". (Zastava is usable, but of lower quality)
Mauser is back in production, but original mauser 98, made by modern mauser - costs, I think cca 8000 eur.
For american makers of CRF, more knoladgable members of forum will have more advice.

What your dealer has given you is good advise.

Finaly, dont bother yourself thinking that it is some useless purchase. I am even considering to purchase one of those for buffalo in 375, 404, or 416, havent decided yet on caliber, but for one hunt only. Later it can be sold again if not needed again.
But in your case, for general PG bag, it is absolutely and definitely "reusable".
It only depends on how passionate you are about next African safari, and how many safaris will be repetated after.

I hunted with 375 HH and it is excellent caliber, ammo available everywhere (including African safari countries) , and recoil is moderate.

 

[EZRider]

I do all my hunting with a CZ .375.
It is a great rifle and will be much more useful than any of the .22 calibers in Africa.
Definitely put a good quality optic on it and with lighter bullets it will reach as far as your .308

 

[jacques smith]

Since you feel a 375 is a useless purchase, why bother?
Better question, why am I bothering at all?

 

[308W]

Hi Mark-hunter, thank you for your post.

What about sight, do you think is better only Iron sight or with optical sight too?

My dealer mentioned me express too, second hand but in perfect conditions costs 5-7.000 euro insted of 20-30.000 euro new. Think about.

 

[308W]

I do all my hunting with a CZ .375.
It is a great rifle and will be much more useful than any of the .22 calibers in Africa.
Definitely put a good quality optic on it and with lighter bullets it will reach as far as your .308

Thanks for your advice, I will see what kind of optics are mounted on them or I can use one of mine.
What do you think about a swarovski 3-12 x 56? Is it too much for this caliber?

 

[308W]

Since you feel a 375 is a useless purchase, why bother?
Better question, why am I bothering at all?

Hi!
First of all because I know my self... what I have got in mind is not the big five, but a light safari to hunt small and medium antilopes from 10 to 200 kg maximum and I believe my 308 will be more then anough.

In my life I have bought about 50 guns, more then 40 has been mistakes, because of the calibers, stock shape and dimentions, or easily becouse I didn't need them.
Years ago I've decided to buy only what I need and use.
In Europe my 308 W is more then anough and the 375 I will note use.

I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.

 

[EZRider]

Hi!
First of all because I know my self... what I have got in mind is not the big five, but a light safari to hunt small and medium antilopes from 10 to 200 kg maximum and I believe my 308 will be more then anough.

In my life I have bought about 50 guns, more then 40 has been mistakes, because of the calibers, stock shape and dimentions, or easily becouse I didn't need them.
Years ago I've decided to buy only what I need and use.
In Europe my 308 W is more then anough and the 375 I will note use.

I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.

You won’t end up selling it, they are very addictive to shoot and very versatile. You could use it anywhere in the world and not just for large or dangerous game.
An optic is a must as you can easily hunt out to 250 m with 230 or 250 gr bullets.
Put on a 1-6 x leupold, or any other brand, with quick detach rings so you can get to the irons if you need to.
Only disadvantage is the CZ is a big, heavy rifle. On the other hand the recoil is very soft because of that and my kids have no problem shooting mine.

 

[EZRider]

Here is mine:

 

[dchamp]

Please forgive me, but I am going to suggest an alternative to the .375 H&H. Since you are limiting yourself to non dangerous game I would suggest the 9.3x62. It is very versatile and lighter recoiling than the .375 H&H and it can handle Dangerous Game. It is a Classical African Cartridge and IMHO one of the best all around. The 9.3 can handle the smallest to the largest antelope without ruining the trophy and yet carry plenty of punch for the larger game. My son has used it in Africa with great satisfaction and it has now become his only hunting rifle.

If you don't mind spending a little money I would recommend purchasing a Blaser R8 with both the the 9.3x62 and .308 Win. You can get the barrels with or without iron sights, I like them with iron sights as a backup. That way you have one rifle and two barrels. It takes less than a minute to change from one barrel to the other. Their quick mount scope attachment holds zero very well and they are very accurate and dependable.

 

[mark-hunter]

Hi Mark-hunter, thank you for your post.

What about sight, do you think is better only Iron sight or with optical sight too?

My dealer mentioned me express too, second hand but in perfect conditions costs 5-7.000 euro insted of 20-30.000 euro new. Think about.

All my rifles have iron sights and detachable scopes.
So, yes, go with rifle with iron sights.

Scopes on detachable rings, absolutely. Power 3-9x, 4-12x or similar.
More expereinced hunters suggest, even to have two scopes for safari rifle, for the reason if one gets damage during the travel, or during the hunt, the second one to have spare.
But it is your decision, but two scopes I think is wise to have in remote african hunting grounds.
If you ae buying on budget, consider meybe chech "Meopta", older line R1.

If, by "express" you mean double rifle. Price is really good.
But it is not my personal first choice for plains game. Double rifle - It is for close range, for DG, and second follow up shot on DG if possible.

In europe, same type rifle, is used for driven boar hunts.
I am not sure what is the brand of rifle the dealer is offering, but check on this web site various topics on double rifle. Issues with regulation of barrels, different loads, etc... Some brands are better then others. (Kreighoff, Heym, Chapuis, generaly more appreciated then other Italian brands, mostly)
My pesonal view on this is:
If double rifle is in tropical caliber (from 375 upwards), and not needed for plains game, then it may be useless investement.
If the double rifle is in smaller caliber (less then 375, actually from 9.3 downwards) then it can be used in european driven boar hunts. (its then different type of investemnent), and then it is a classy!
But even then, it would not be my first choice for plains game in Africa. If you are doing driven hunt on boars in Italy, then it is good investement. (provided that you have budget for this)

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks for your advice, I will see what kind of optics are mounted on them or I can use one of mine.
What do you think about a swarovski 3-12 x 56? Is it too much for this caliber?

3-12 is massively over glassed for .375 H&H. for what you will be shooting I would say a maximum of 7x should be sufficient. I mean... I have hit woodchucks in the head at 275 yards with a 4x scope so anything you would be shooting at with a .375 will be huge compared to those.

I was thinking 5-10.000 euro, but if I can spend about 500-1.000 euro without optic, I can resell it easly without loose too much money.

Wow, 5,000 to 10,000 Euro is a lot of money for a functional .375 H&H. The fact of the matter remains that the price of a rifle has diminishing returns.

Are rifles that expensive in Italy? In most countries, I would imagine a good functional CRF .375 could be had for $1,000-$2,500

an extra $2,000 buys you nice wood and maybe a tuned action, glass bedding, etc.

another $2,000 buys you some proprietary action with some engraving, or a custom fit stock. i.e Blaser, Merkel,... etc.

After that any additional $ or euros are all just engraving, wood quality, custom fit... Rifles like Rigby's, Magnum Mausers, Kilimanjaro... etc. fit into this category.

And that's all for a brand new rifle made to fit you. I would love a .375 H&H Rigby, but I don't want to drop the price of a brand new car on a rifle that will get beat in the woods. They are beautiful and slick but, In my opinion, even with all the refinements.. I think they are overpriced. I could buy a Magnum Mauser Action from Granite Mountain, put a match grade barrel on it, sights, quarter rib and a scope and build a stock from claro walnut, checker it and fit and finish the rifle to be identical to one of the new Rigby's and still be under $8,000.

And that's all if you are into that. which it sounds like you aren't. Why spend that much money on something you think is unnecessary to begin with?

 

[leslie hetrick]

two of my seven CZ,s, a 550 american in .375 H&H and 550 American in 6.5x55, ex rifles for the money.

 

[sheephunterab]

I'd agree the 375H&H is indispensable in Africa...the CRF not so much. Push feed...CFR....they both work equally well in my opinion. I own several of each.

 

[308W]

Here is mine:

View attachment 257194

Very nice dark wood, I like it

 

[308W]

Please forgive me, but I am going to suggest an alternative to the .375 H&H. Since you are limiting yourself to non dangerous game I would suggest the 9.3x62. It is very versatile and lighter recoiling than the .375 H&H and it can handle Dangerous Game. It is a Classical African Cartridge and IMHO one of the best all around. The 9.3 can handle the smallest to the largest antelope without ruining the trophy and yet carry plenty of punch for the larger game. My son has used it in Africa with great satisfaction and it has now become his only hunting rifle.

If you don't mind spending a little money I would recommend purchasing a Blaser R8 with both the the 9.3x62 and .308 Win. You can get the barrels with or without iron sights, I like them with iron sights as a backup. That way you have one rifle and two barrels. It takes less than a minute to change from one barrel to the other. Their quick mount scope attachment holds zero very well and they are very accurate and dependable.

Thank you for your advice, I will consider it.

 

[308W]

All my rifles have iron sights and detachable scopes.
So, yes, go with rifle with iron sights.

Scopes on detachable rings, absolutely. Power 3-9x, 4-12x or similar.
More expereinced hunters suggest, even to have two scopes for safari rifle, for the reason if one gets damage during the travel, or during the hunt, the second one to have spare.
But it is your decision, but two scopes I think is wise to have in remote african hunting grounds.
If you ae buying on budget, consider meybe chech "Meopta", older line R1.

If, by "express" you mean double rifle. Price is really good.

Thank you Mark-hunter for your advices.

Ebout the express there is a misanderstand, I though you need an express.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thanks for suggestion, but at this moment I am at lower budget limit.
For buffalo hunt, probably I will go with bolt action.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@308W,

You have a peculiar way of asking for her advice and then dismissing the experience of others in Africa that you don't have. I followed your other thread and was about to post replies on a couple of occasions and then didn't. It just didn't seem like I could add to what others had already contributed. So I'll try now in this thread.

I'll say this. There is a difference between what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. I think the .308Win is a great caliber. And you most definitely CAN kill an eland with one. My then 15 year old son killed an eland with his. I won't go into the circumstances too much, but it was what we had available and we also had a pair of wonderful dogs to help with any follow up. First shot likely would've resulted in a dead bull, but ethics demanded following up and putting the animal down as soon as possible. With the help of the dogs and few more shots, the bull was down.

Having said that and regardless of my son being a skinny kid at that time, I sure wish I would not have left my .375H&H in the truck. I would've handed it to him and if his first shot with that had been in the same place as his .308W was, I have no doubt that bull would've died much sooner.

I suppose somewhere along the line someone has probably even killed a giraffe with a .308Win, so I don't doubt that it CAN be done.

But these are both of examples of animals you SHOULD NOT hunt with a .308Win, especially if you're capable of shooting a more appropriate caliber.

You would be quite impressed if you saw the result of a .375H&H on a larger animal in comparison to smaller calibers. For me using a proper caliber is part of the ethics of putting the animal down as quickly as possible. So for me, this argument being about what you can do or what you need to hunt with is pointless. Pick a caliber that's appropriate for the size of the game you're pursuing, that's what should be done.

For most PG species, I'd say your .308W is a great choice. But pairing it with a .375H&H would be a wise idea for the larger game and to have a backup rifle should something crap out on the other.

 

[308W]

Wow, 5,000 to 10,000 Euro is a lot of money for a functional .375 H&H.

Not for a functional one but for a nice or beautifull safari grade. Many times I have seen the prices in this range.

And that's all if you are into that. which it sounds like you aren't. Why spend that much money on something you think is unnecessary to begin with?

Sorry but... what are you talking about?
In my first post I have spoken about 500-1.500 euro for a second hand rifle.