375 Ruger vs 375 H&H

[redriverjake]

I've got a Remington in .243 win, a Winchester in .7mm Rem, Mauser in .8mm , a Ruger in .300 win, and several other rifles of assorted makes and cals... I would sell all of them before I got rid of my CZ .375 H&H mag. This is simply my preference with all due respects to folks that might disagree. I simply can not see a case where you would wish you had the Ruger over the H&H. Cheers

 

[lwaters]

I think that the 375 ruger will most likely be a success. I do think that here in North America it may take more sales from the 338 win mag. than the 375 H&H. I myself have a 338 win mag that I am taking to Africa on a plans game hunt along with a 300 RCM. When I come back I may move up to a 375 for the next trip especially if cape buffalo is in the mix. Lenny

 

[enysse]

Boy, I would sure hope the 375 Ruger doesn't over take the 338 Win...that would be shame. The 338 Win Mag is a very good gun! I will never sell mine!

 

[B9.3]

I agree with that enysse, the 338 is a beauty and is very popular down here in Oz with the Sambar Deer Hunters. My 338 is a 340 Weatherby and I have used it on all manner of game down here. I think either 338 would be pretty close to an allrounder for the one gun game hunter. I am very impressed with them with 210gr TSX. With the 250gr there is not many calibres that will match the 338 for penetration. I have seen stem to stern with them. I think the best allrounder is the 225gr.

 

[Wanderer]

Wait until June and buy the new Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in 375 H&H. I have one of the last Model 70's made before the change to South Carolina and love it. Have had great success in Africa with it. The new models are even better. Was voted gun of the year by a prominent gun writer recently. Bought a Super Grade 30-06 for my son for Christmas and it is as nice as a $4,000 custom rifle I bought [left-handed and hard to find wooden stocked rifles without spending a lot]. Fit and finish on the Model 70 is wonderful and action smooth as silk. For the money you can't go wrong!

I also bought a late 2005 LH Mod. 70 in H&H. Two safaris and 1400 rounds later, I will never sell it. It's going back in 2013 to the Selous again. Two buff on it and lots of plains game. One shot kills with the buff. The H&H has a record of 99 years of uninterrupted success. That's all the convincing I need to avoid a reinvention of the wheel.

I have a custom .458 Win, a Pedersen 22" barrel on a .375 Ruger action in Ruger wood. After about 80 rounds, the stock split at the tang. You couldn't pay me to buy a Ruger rifle above a 30-06 caliber after this. It's in the shop getting a McMillan installed. The Ruger wood is pure crap. Yeah, I know. 70 ft/lbs recoil of the .458 is a lot more than 47 in the .375, which doesn't change the fact that the wood is junk. Never again.

 

[sestoppelman]

I would guess the Ruger had not been glass bedded or improperly bedded. Since that was a custom gun, whoever put it together should have bedded it. Ruger wood is as good as anybody elses wood. If a big bore isnt bedded bad things can happen, no matter who makes it.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I have a 375 Ruger in the alaskan model myself and I really like both the gun and the cartridge.
I think the 375 Ruger is better than the 375 H&H in all aspects. Not by much, but still better

Soon your 338 win will be obsolete enysse
No, I don't think so, even if I think both 338 Lapua and 338 Norma are better.

But with the new 250 grain Barnes Tipped TSX bullet with a BC of .424, in a 375 Ruger or a 375 H&H, you have a serious flat shooting and hard hitting combination

 

[sestoppelman]

I have a 375 Ruger in the alaskan model myself and I really like both the gun and the cartridge.
I think the 375 Ruger is better than the 375 H&H in all aspects. Not by much, but still better

Soon your 338 win will be obsolete enysse
No, I don't think so, even if I think both 338 Lapua and 338 Norma are better.

But with the new 250 grain Barnes Tipped TSX bullet with a BC of .424, in a 375 Ruger or a 375 H&H, you have a serious flat shooting and hard hitting combination

How exactly is the Ruger "better in all aspects" than the H&H?

Are you using factory ammo or handloading? It likely wont feed and extract as easily as the H&H. In order to get a noticable increase in velocity it will require more pressure as case capacity is so similar and with its case design it would be more prone to being a little sticky when hot.
Its fine if people like stuff thats new, but it always cracks me up when people say something is "better" when in reality the differences are minute. Just because its newer dont make it better.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I am using both and I have no problems with feeding and extracting at all.
This has mostly to do with the construction of the gun and can in most cases be fixed by a skilled gun smith if needed.
And the 375 Ruger doesn't give more pressure when making it go faster than the 375 H&H, because as with all thick and short cases, they burn the powder in more efficient ways than their longer and thinner brothers and sisters. Giving in fact lower pressure with less powder used to give the same speed.

How hot does it need to be to make a case a little sticky when hot?
I have never experienced this happening myself.
I have not been hunting when it has been very hot(more than 35 centigrades), but I have been shooting at shooting ranges at 35+ centigrades firing lots of shots, making the barrels almost glowing of heat with different cartridges and still not experienced sticky cases.

I don't always think newer is better at all
But I do really find it funny that some people can't accept that sometimes there comes something newer that is better. And cling to their old favorite and refuse to admit that the newer one is a bit better.
Nothing wrong in loving an old timer at all. I do that as well with many cartridges, but I still think that a few times there comes something that is better than my old love, but that doesn't mean that I jump ship and run for the new one when the oldy do the job plenty good enough for my use

 

[sestoppelman]

Mostly a lot of hype and advertising. Ever chronograph any of your loads and compare them to the H&H? The short fat case thing certainly sounds like the cats meow but there is no free lunch and to drive a bullet faster you have to add powder and boost pressure. And there is also increased recoil as well. What is 35 centigrades exactly in either F degrees or C degrees measure?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I am using both and I have no problems with feeding and extracting at all.
This has mostly to do with the construction of the gun and can in most cases be fixed by a skilled gun smith if needed.
And the 375 Ruger doesn't give more pressure when making it go faster than the 375 H&H, because as with all thick and short cases, they burn the powder in more efficient ways than their longer and thinner brothers and sisters. Giving in fact lower pressure with less powder used to give the same speed.

How hot does it need to be to make a case a little sticky when hot?
I have never experienced this happening myself.
I have not been hunting when it has been very hot(more than 35 centigrades), but I have been shooting at shooting ranges at 35+ centigrades firing lots of shots, making the barrels almost glowing of heat with different cartridges and still not experienced sticky cases.

I don't always think newer is better at all
But I do really find it funny that some people can't accept that sometimes there comes something newer that is better. And cling to their old favorite and refuse to admit that the newer one is a bit better.
Nothing wrong in loving an old timer at all. I do that as well with many cartridges, but I still think that a few times there comes something that is better than my old love, but that doesn't mean that I jump ship and run for the new one when the oldy do the job plenty good enough for my use

As an engineer I for the most part live everyday trying to find a better way to do something and for the most part never believe anything is perfect. As far as I can tell the slightly higher muzzle velocity for the Ruger is not so much from efficiency as it is from moving the shoulder forward and thereby increasing the powder capacity.

Per my Nosler reloading manual for the H&H case using a 300gr partition, the maximum weight of RL15 recommended is 68gr which will give a muzzle velocity of 2490fps. This is from a 24" barrel. Now as to how accurate Nosler actually is in their velocity measurements can and is questioned at times.

But in comparison to the Ruger, the same bullet has a minimum weight of 68gr in RL15 yielding a muzzle velocity of 2502fps. This is however from a 26" barrel. So, I see negligible difference in velocity but the barrel length is 2" longer which in my opinion is a disadvantage. Now in fairness, the Ruger can be loaded according to the same manual to 72.0gr of RL15 and you'll get another 100fps for that. But chop the barrel length down by 2", and this 100fps will obviously be less.

Is the Ruger ballistically superior in the end? Well I think so, but not enough to make me switch off of the H&H. Furthermore, with the sloped shape of the H&H brass you may just find out that extraction is better in the right circumstances. Extreme heat combined with a hot load can lead to a sticky case. I live in the desert southwest of the U.S. and shoot when it may be 45 degrees C or hotter. Although I don't do this on a regular basis, I have and experienced difficult to eject cases. Personally I don't plan to ever hunt in this heat, but there are those that do about this time of year in Africa.

No insult intended to your Ruger, I gave it a lot of thought before buying the H&H. But in the end I want to hunt Africa with mine. I am quite certain just about any outfit there will have some spare H&H ammo if for some reason mine is lost in transit. I'm not sure I could say that about the Ruger ammo.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hi Phil, I have found Noslers velocities about impossible to duplicate at least with their charges. Totally unrealistic. Agree with your assessment of the discussion 100 percent. BTW, I have safely driven a 300 gr Partition to very near 2600fps in my 24" barreled Whitworth Express and have seen others do even better with no obvious over pressure signs. No doubt they are warmish loads but using slow burning powders like IMR 4831 it can do it. No doubt the Ruger can do it as well and a bit more too. It just doesn't excite me very much, no charisma!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Hi Phil, I have found Noslers velocities about impossible to duplicate at least with their charges. Totally unrealistic. Agree with your assessment of the discussion 100 percent. BTW, I have safely driven a 300 gr Partition to very near 2600fps in my 24" barreled Whitworth Express and have seen others do even better with no obvious over pressure signs. No doubt they are warmish loads but using slow burning powders like IMR 4831 it can do it. No doubt the Ruger can do it as well and a bit more too. It just doesn't excite me very much, no charisma!

I'm with you concerning the Nosler manual. Roughly I average about 100fps slower than they claim. Never quite sure though if it's the manual or the cheesy chrono I borrow from a friend of mine.

 

[sestoppelman]

Phil, You heard what old man Oehler said about chrono's right? He said he never had one returned because it gave too high a velocity! But had many returned because they read too slow!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Phil, You heard what old man Oehler said about chrono's right? He said he never had one returned because it gave too high a velocity! But had many returned because they read too slow!

LOL, I'll bet! The chrony I borrow is not an Oehler. It's pretty consistent though and gets the job done well enough. I don't get hung up too much on the numbers. If I'm in the ballpark of where I expect to be, that's all that matters to me.

 

[richteb]

My take on this is a little different, until more gun manufactures start chambering their rifles for the Ruger round there is little chance of the H & H becoming less popular then it is. I have the 416 Ruger and have found that I can not match factory velocitys with my own reloads and I suspect that the 375 Ruger will fall in the same boat.

Besides I think debating over 100 fps or so is academic, if you like the the rifle and the cartridge it is chambered for then you should buy it. There is no more justification needed when it comes to buying another rifle in my opinion.

 

[Rohan]

Hey! Another .375 fan...what are the odds?!!!

I grew up on CZ in .223 and later in .375H&H. I have never used the Ruger. CZ when coming straight from the factory in the most standard models are ok, but they do need a couple of tweeks here and there like a trigger job and such. I am not a CZ fan but thats just probably because of my personality and other usless apects. I think, as someone already said in this thread, they are a good base to build from and history tells no lies. They are on most gun racks of most gunshops for a reason.

 

[enysse]

35 degrees Celsius = 95 degress Fahrenheit, 45 degrees Celsius = 113 degrees Farenheit.

Soon your 338 win will be obsolete enysse
No, I don't think so, even if I think both 338 Lapua and 338 Norma are better.

I'm alright with people moving onto another modern caliber, it's their loss. (lol).

I think Ruger does a wonderful job marketing, along with Hornady. Not saying a bad thing about either. It kinda reminds me of the guys that buying a new bow every year, because last years model is old and inefficient. Anyway, I'm glad everyone is keeping the bullet and gun companies in business.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

Mostly a lot of hype and advertising. Ever chronograph any of your loads and compare them to the H&H? The short fat case thing certainly sounds like the cats meow but there is no free lunch and to drive a bullet faster you have to add powder and boost pressure. And there is also increased recoil as well. What is 35 centigrades exactly in either F degrees or C degrees measure?

Sorry, Celsius

And I will try to chrono my 375 Ruger loads, both factory and self made when they open up the shooting ranges again in the spring. (closed here during the winter....)
My Alaskan has only a 20" barrel, so I don't expect very high speeds

I totally agree that there are a hype about everything new that comes out. Rifles, cartridges, bullets, scopes and whatever.
Most of the time it is just hype, but I few times it is a bit more than that. In my opinion falls the 375 Ruger under the last category, but that doesn't mean that I think it is much better than the 375 H&H at all.
I think they are very close. And I am very sure that a 24" 375H&H barrel beats my 20" 375 Ruger barrel
The 2 aspects of the 375 Ruger I like the most is no belt and short enough to fit in standard actions. A few extra f/s doesn't matter so much
I am 100% sure that a 375 H&H or a 375 Ruger will both do the job plenty good enough

The feeling of no charisma from a cartridge I understand very much. I feel the same for 308 and 30-06.
They are just utterly boring for me.
I am at the moment having a serious discussion with myself if I shall make the smart choice and buy a new 30-06 after I just sold one or if I shall follow my heart and buy something more fun and expensive to shoot and hunt with.
We have a limit on how many hunting guns we can own in Norway(6), so I can't just buy and keep how many guns I want

About the fear for losing the ammo in transit.
Has anyone experienced this? And how do you pack and send your ammo when going abroad to hunt?
My ammo is packed together with the rest of my checked in luggage and if I lose my ammo, I will lose all the rest of my gear as well then.
I am more worried about losing my gun than the ammo and gear.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I do believe the loss of ammo due to lost luggage is a rare occurrence but I do believe it's happened. But much like you probably never really the benefits of a CRF rifle, if you do need it and you're carrying a push feed it can ruin your whole day.