404 Jeffery reduced loads

[Proneshooter]

Looking for a bit of help here. I got my hands on 8# of AA 5744 that I intended on using for practice loads in my 404 Jeffery. Does anybody have a starting point? I would be using 400gr. cast bullets. Thank you all for any help.

 

[fourfive8]

The closest I can come to the 404 would be a load I've shot a lot in an original M1874 Sharps in 44-90. My favorite was a 420 gr gas checked bullet over 23 gr of 5744 with some low density Dacron filler. That load is mild and very consistent in the 44-90. The SD of velocity is about 8 fps with a mean velocity of 1100 fps.

You can find various cast bullet loads with 5744 for cartridges that are reasonably comparable to the 404. My Lyman manuals show 5744 cast bullet data for 45-90, 45-100 and 45-110 cartridges which IMO would come close to the 404. You can also find older cast bullet data for some of the larger cartridges using the discontinued 4759 powder. 4759 acts a lot like 5744 for these types of low pressure, low velocity cast bullet applications. 4759 is kind of a predecessor to 5744.

 

[fourfive8]

I dug a little deeper into my load notes and found another fairly comparable cartridge and load. About 15 years ago I had an M1879 Remington Rolling Block in 43 Spanish. A 380 gr cast bullet over 23 gr of 5744 yielded a mean velocity of about 1150 fps with a standard of deviation of 10 fps. That too was a very accurate and consistent load.

 

[DrBob]

Here is a general article:

Reduced Rifle Loads | Handloader Magazine

www.handloadermagazine.com

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf For the 404 max H4895 would be 71 grains ao 60% of that is max reduced load for 400 grain bullet.

Using 5744......LYMAN :
416 Rigby 350 GRAIN CAST - 56 MAX
416 Rem 350 cast 50 gr Max
378 Weatherby 335 cast 47 gr Ma

 

[Shootist43]

Proneshooter, send Von Gruff a PM. He shot cast bullets out of his 404 Jeffery and might have some data to share with you.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Looking for a bit of help here. I got my hands on 8# of AA 5744 that I intended on using for practice loads in my 404 Jeffery. Does anybody have a starting point? I would be using 400gr. cast bullets. Thank you all for any help.

I have nothing to contribute except a question for the OP... WHERE DID YOU GET THE CAST LEAD .423" BULLETS? I've been looking everywhere for some 400 grain cast bullets to make the same pratice loads for my .404 Jeffery. No luck!

 

[fourfive8]

If you can find load data for H4895 in the 470, simply use 60% of the listed max H4895. That is the recommendation from Hodgdon for a reduced load. But then again, H4895 is not 5744

If I had a modern bolt 404 and a bunch of 5744... I'd load a gas-checked cast 400 gr +/-, sized from groove diameter up to about 001" larger than groove diameter on top of about 24 gr of 5744 with a low density fluff Dacron filler and fire away. It will be a mild load. The only downside to 5744, and it is largely cosmetic, is that at the lower pressures for which it works very well, "ghost" powder kernels are left in the bore after firing.

 

[Proneshooter]

I have nothing to contribute except a question for the OP... WHERE DID YOU GET THE CAST LEAD .423" BULLETS? I've been looking everywhere for some 400 grain cast bullets to make the same pratice loads for my .404 Jeffery. No luck!

Made them myself, I can send you some if you need some. They are powder coated and leave no leading in the barrel, and no mess on your fingers when loading them.
John

 

[Nevada Mike]

John - -Sending a PM.

 

[Ray B]

The only downside to 5744, is that at the lower pressures "ghost" powder kernels are left in the bore after firing.

What's a ghost kernel?

 

[CoElkHunter]

There’s always a few “ghost” kernels in any given powder charge. They “scare” the rest of the powder kernels to leave the barrel. Ha! Ha! You guys are killing me with this stuff! It’s 18F and snowing...I’m going to bed!

 

[GuttormG]

Trailboss or Vithavouri TinStar/n32c is perfect for this project.

 

[fourfive8]

What's a ghost kernelthose

For whatever reason, the chemistry, coatings or whoknows, 5744 used for low pressure, low velocity loads, leaves very low density, ash-like remnants of individual powder kernels in the bore after firing. I've shot a lot of cast bullet 5744 loads and those ashen "ghost" kernels have never caused a problem that I've noticed. And that residue doesn't seem to be cumulative shot after shot. But it drives some shooters crazy as they see them in the bore after firing 5744.

Old 4759 is ballistically similar to 5744 but it does not leave those ghost kernels after firing. 4759 simply tends to leave the more familiar carbon residue. Both powders are used for low pressure, low velocity substitute loads that can come closer than any other smokeless powder to duplicating black powder ballistics. I think 4759 was originally used in some commercial and military applications for exactly that purpose- a more effictient, less corrosive substitute for certain of the older more problematic BP charges.

 

[Proneshooter]

For any future needs, this is the information I got back from Hodgdon,


Here is the requested load data that will work for you.

Caliber: .404 Jeffery.

Barrel length: 24”

Reduced Loads:

Powder: Accurate – 5744®.

Bullet weight: 400 grains.

Low load: 35.0 grains (1550 – 1650 ft/p/sec)

Midrange load: 43.0 grains (1775 – 1875 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 50.0 grains (1975 – 2075 Ft/p/sec).









Don W.
CST
Hodgdon Powder Company
913-521-4791

 

[Ray B]

Proneshooter - that's good info, but the local stores are all out of 5744, however I do have some SR4759. Is there any info on reduced loads for 404J with that, or equivalent "low loads"?

 

[Proneshooter]

Proneshooter - that's good info, but the local stores are all out of 5744, however I do have some SR4759. Is there any info on reduced loads for 404J with that, or equivalent "low loads"?

Ray,
I have no experience with your chosen powder. I got lucky finding the 5744 as you know all powder is hard to find right now. You could try contacting the manufacturer of the SR4759, or maybe 458 will be able to help you. He has added some great info here.
John

 

[cmk]

I have nothing to contribute except a question for the OP... WHERE DID YOU GET THE CAST LEAD .423" BULLETS? I've been looking everywhere for some 400 grain cast bullets to make the same pratice loads for my .404 Jeffery. No luck!

You can get into casting and get your own custom made mould for approx $100 if you want to down that rabbit hole. I can very much recommend Accurate Molds, from whom I bought a 4-cavity mold of my own design. (2×350gr + 2×400gr). Unless there is an existing market for cheap cast bullets for 404J in the US, you recover that cost/investment quickly. My practice ammo costs me about $1.25 per finished cartridge, and that includes the brass (I'm assuming I can reload the cases 10 times).

That is about 1/8th of what factory ammo costs here, and less than half the cost of reloads with factory bullets (A-Frame, DGX etc).

Made them myself, I can send you some if you need some. They are powder coated and leave no leading in the barrel, and no mess on your fingers when loading them.
John

Just have to ask what kind of alloy you are using. I'm currently using something like equal parts pure lead, wheel weights and lino. Water quenched, powder coated and gas checked I run them at full speed (well - at least at 2200fps). No problems with fouling or such, but I'm thinking that maybe I'm using too much of the good stuff and could do equally well with a softer alloy. Your experiences would be appreciated.

 

[Scrumbag]

There must be an application with Unique or Trailboss somewhere here... There's always seemingly a way to "download" a cartridge with a soft lead bullet and Unique / Trailboss it seems.

Scrummy

 

[Nevada Mike]

There must be an application with Unique or Trailboss somewhere here... There's always seemingly a way to "download" a cartridge with a soft lead bullet and Unique / Trailboss it seems.

Scrummy

I would like to find a load with Unique - I have several pounds. A great 20 gauge powder. I promised myself I would shoot a minimum of 250 rounds thgrough my .404J before i take it hunting, At $100+ for a box of 20 that adds up to some money.

 

[Nevada Mike]

There must be an application with Unique or Trailboss somewhere here... There's always seemingly a way to "download" a cartridge with a soft lead bullet and Unique / Trailboss it seems.

Scrummy

Hodgdon's web site lists a low recoil load for the .416 Remington magnum with 20 grns. of Trail Boss and a 350 grain bullet. I wonder if that is a good starting point?