.405 win

[PBBaker]

Thanks. How about crimping?

 

[sestoppelman]

With the TSX I crimp into the top groove. The OAL is critical for the 1895 Win, and the TSX works fine even though a bit longer than spec. Looking back over my notes and target plotters I see that this bullet showed the most promise early on but for some reason I pursued the Woodleigh more. The TSX has been by far the most consistent, especially with Varget.

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

I know this is an older thread, but was intrigued by the .405 Winchester cartridge. I inherited a gorgeous original Winchester 1895 Deluxe TD from m grandfather when he passed away. It was purchased for him by his father the day he was born in 1910 and given to him as a graduation present. It has a notch in the forearm, but am uncertain if it is for bear, whitetail, or pig. I got curious about hunting in Africa with it and read everything I could concerning Teddy''s and Osa's adventures with the caliber. A few other's as well, but those two were the most "colorful". Today's bullets are heads above the bullets that they used and could be a viable DG cartridge and some have still used it as such, but I still have some misgivings about it. I don't believe, personally, that the 300 gr soft nose offerings or even the 300 gr solid offerings would be very good at anything further out than 50 yds. With that said, I decided to get a Ruger #1H Tropical chambered in 405 Winchester and see what I could do to get it up to proper DG energy levels. I found a load with the Barnes 300 gr TSX would do keenly on buffalo, hippo, or other heavily muscled/ boned game. However, I just don't think that the single shot is the right instrument to be doing this with. So, I will be moving on to the next adventure with another cartridge in a controlled feed action. Good luck and stay safe.

My Winchester 1895 Deluxe TD with some Hawk bullets (the Hawk's did not perform well at all):


My Ruger #1H Tropical with original Winchester 405 Ammunition:

 

[sestoppelman]

I too had the #1 in this cal and you can load it up to the rounds max no problem. I was getting over 2100 fps with a 400gr bullet. Of course such loads are no good for the Win 95, which BTW I took one to SA in June. My load was 56 grs of Varget behind the 300 gr Barnes triple shock for just over 2150fps. I only got to take one animal with it, my big nyala, but its a hard hitting round for sure.
Tell us about the Hawk bullets performance.

 

[flatwater bill]

Nick..............I enjoyed reading this older thread.................but it would have been worth it just to see the foto of your model 95. That is about as nice a one as I have ever seen. Should you, (or Sestoppelman) want to read a bit about the 405 in its day...........try "The Heart of the Hunter", ....by Edison Marshall; this is the best written "hunting" book I have yet read. Particularly enjoyed his graphic descriptions of using the model 95 on lion and rhino. Marshall's PH, the famous big game man Charlie Cottar, said of the .405........."it deals a heavy blow". I shot my first model 95 in this great caliber 53 years ago next month. Help keep it alive and shootin'............................FWB

 

[sestoppelman]

FWB, way ahead of ya man, read that book years ago!

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

I started with the hawk 411 x 350 x .035, used Varget with it and it started to look promising at about 3 inch groups at 50 yds. Increase in powder charge and the groups spread. Went to a 411 x 325 x .025 and the same thing happened. The groups actually started to look like a shotgun pattern. Maybe if they were swaged at .412 or .413, the testing may have been different. Decided to try them in the Ruger #1 with no luck at all. Best I could muster was 2 1/2" at 2075 fps and this was not even consistent. Thought they would've done better in the Ruger (.411 cal bore) vs. the Winchester (.413 cal. bore) due to the tighter bore, but no dice. Some rifles just don't like some bullets. Ended up using the Woodleigh Weldcore .412, 300 gr SN in the Winchester for a velocity of 2250 fps, using 53.7 gr H322 and 1 1/2" groups @ 50 yds. This is not a good comfort zone for me thinking of going after a cape buffalo. So I scrapped that idea and am thinking of using it on an American Bison instead. For the Ruger #1, I cranked it up a bit and used the Barnes 300 gr TSX with 63 gr H322 for a velocity of 2550 fps and less than 1" groups @ 100 yds (consistently). This load I would definitely use on a cape buffalo, but am uncomfortable with the single shot concept on something that could toss me like a rag doll without even thinking about it. I would like to have the ability to reload without having to fumble around with levers and hands full of ammo.

 

[Nicholas Barcomb]

Will do FWB! The Marshall book is on my 'to read' list when I saw his name come up during a reading of a Ruark book I did recently. I had a mold made for me by Accurate molds in 413 cal x 325 gr. Just cast them today, let them air cool for a day or 2, size, heat treat, lube, load, and shoot. Already have some load data to go using RE7 and H322. We shall see, I haven't completely scrapped the idea. Glad you enjoyed the photos. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[sestoppelman]

I know I have read that book and thought I still had it but I cant for the life of me find the bloody thing!

The load I finally settled on that I mention above, netted me pretty consistent 2" groups at 100 yds with a Williams peep sight. Plenty good for hunting. When I got to RSA in June, doing sight in, the targets they had were scope targets with little bitty diamonds! I am used to shooting at a 6" bull and covering it with the front sight bead and seeing my bullets land just above the top of the bull. Took me about 8 rounds to sight in as it was pretty hard to place my bead on the paper with no reference point. Should have taken my own targets obviously. Oh well.

 

[vette447]

Nicholas, that is an absolutely georgeous original 1895 .405 WCF. Congrats on owning such an exquisite rifle with such a great story. I had one similar (but not TD and not in as good of condition) that I took Black Bear hunting in New Mexico a few years ago and it worked great with pass through shots (Hornady 300 gr soft points). This is a very cool caliber and I am glad to see a resurgence of interest in it.

 

[fsrmg1]

Just of interest for this calibre and the Winchester 1895 that used it. I know a number of old farmers who grew up on African plantations. Most said the same thing, there always seemed to be a well used Win 95 .405 in the gun rack and that one was the most used when serious work needed to be done. They said that the big calibre bolts and doubles were just too heavy and clumsy. It was a working tool and that was how they used it on everything from bush pigs and lions, all the way up to raiding elephants. It simply did the job, so long as they did their part.

 

[shuter]

I'm a .405 junkie, as well! Have 2 of them: an USRAC repro and a stainless/laminate #1. Here are some pics of an article Rick Jamison wrote in 2003, comparing his original 1905 .405 to one of the new ones. He couldn't find a new one to buy and ended up using my rifle for the article and load development. It was a fun process and we've been friends since. Anyway, I added a Williams receiver sight, a Decelerator pad, and a barrel band swivel to mine to make it shootable. The third pic shows the load table from the development with my rifle. The 58.0 gr of H4895 with 300 gr Hornady bullet at 2,236 is my go-to load.

 

[crs]

Congrats on a great hunt and on great guns; I also shoot Parkers, and Winchester M70 and 1895 .405. See .405 above with buff taken at 20 yards.

 

[PBBaker]

Maybe it has to do with growing up in the 50's and 60's dreaming of being a cowboy, but after three safaris my old 1895 has become my favorite rifle. I have always been model 70 guy and they are certainly still dear to me, but this gun just feels right for the African magic of close stalks of magnificent beasts in such a wild and rugged setting. It's heft and balance seem to steady the shining silver bead quicker than crosshairs on the sticks or offhand and the years of use have polished the trigger innards to a smoothness no gunsmith could improve on. It shoots straight, hits hard and is relatively easy on the shoulder with quick follow ups just in case. So now I feel like I'm ready for a close encounter with a buff, but this year that would require first robbing a bank with it.

 

[sestoppelman]

I would not be afraid to tackle buffalo with that rifle. I would want a better bullet than the Hornady but I don't think the round itself is lacking anything as long as the shots are fairly close.

 

[crs]

I too started with factory Hornady 300 grain soft points and they the did the job on everything until I took a high shoulder shot on a Nilgai and the bullet was stopped by the offside shoulder blade and I had to chase and shoot it twice more to make the kill. If it had gone through the ribs, it would have been a killing shot, but after that, I switched to North forks for bigger and tougher game and they have been great on asian water buffalo, bison and such.

 

[PBBaker]

I agree. The Hornady sp's have performed very well on gemsbok, kudu and nyala, but I have Barnes loads for buffalo, if I get the chance.

 

[sestoppelman]

The trick may be finding the right place to hunt buff with one due to the low paper energy levels. It will be legal in some places, not in others. Which is a little silly in my view as there is no way a quality 300 gr bullet at 2200fps and over 3000 lbs. of energy is not going to due serious damage to whatever it hits. For instance the 9.3x62 can make the grade with some loads if we believe some posted specs, and would be legal and rightfully so. But a .405 with an appropriate bullet and loading would I think be even better, but it might not make required specs.

 

[sestoppelman]

I think Eric means me! Yes, I love this caliber and the Model 95 Winchester levergun. Is that what you have or a Ruger No. 1? I had the Ruger some time ago and it shot really well, I worked up a bunch of loads using 400 gr bullets and drove them to just over 2100fps and around 4000 lbs. of energy. I dont load my 95 up like that, rather only shoot 300grs at around 2200fps. Still a very powerful round and I hope to get mine to RSA in a year or two for eland when my boy goes for his first safari. One of the first things I ever read about this cal was an article by Jack O'Connor from 1949, about a huge and I mean huge brown bear taken near Cold Bay, Alaska using one. I think he shot it 3 times at long distances but brought it down in the end. Been fascinated with it ever since. I have yet to take anything with mine, only had it about a year, but been shooting the heck out of it. OH! Welcome to the forum!!

Was just re reading this old thread and wanted to update, correct a couple things I said above, not sure how I let them slip past me.
The article I mention by Jack O'Connor was NOT THE Jack O'Connor ( I thought it was at that time ) but an Alaskan guide by the same name and I make it sound like JOC killed the bear but it was a well known bush pilot by the name of Bob Reeves.
The shots were long at over 250 yards, I think the last at near 300 to put the huge bear down.