.450/400 3" vs everything else

Garrett89

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Hello all!

I'm relatively new to this forum and I've learned a great deal already. I feel like this might be a great place to get some input on a decision I'm trying to make since it seems as though I can't really go "wrong" either way...

I have researched double rifle calibers and cartridges extensively for a while now and I am very much attracted to all of the good things said about the .450/400 3" for an actual hunting rifle as opposed to a "stopping" rifle in something like .500 nitro and up. The primary selling point in my mind is the versatility of the .450/400 since it is well known as being perfectly adequate for anything I'll ever care to hunt in my life. Also the history, the people who carried that cartridge (Corbett comes to mind), the stories, etc all make owning a rifle in that chambering very cool to a 32 year old kid like me.

Then part of me really likes the idea of having that true big bore in my hands the next time I make it over to Zim, or Tanzania, or somewhere down under. The versatility of the .450/400, as I said, is more attractive to me but then I do have plans to build bolt guns in the near future that would perhaps render that cartridge's versatility somewhat (I hate to say it)...pointless? I plan to have something built in .300 H&H (for plains game) and maybe .400 H&H just because I like a lot of things about the both of them. I can see why having a double in .450/400 and a scoped .400 H&H or similar would be smart.

There is also the issue of ammo availability. Right now everything is hard to come by but I still see .500 nitro factory loads and components available presumably since fewer people use rifles chambered for it. Meanwhile 450/400 is almost nonexistent and when it does pop up it's almost always solids and a box of 20 goes for at least what .500 and .470 is going for maybe even a little more. I can honestly say after shooting the .470 nitro that the recoil was fine for me. Manageable, and you still feel like you're carrying a serious weapon. I've been told the .500 is only a little worse and gives a little more performance?

So my conundrum is...should I stick with the 450/400 and just hope for ammo to be available again while mastering shooting a double with whatever ammo I find in the meantime? I've heard it said that the 450/400 is the first double you should buy and the last one you should ever sell. I'm sure that's very true and I do very much like it's versatility. It definitely has its own cool factor. Also I've got plenty of wild hogs here in Texas to practice on with whatever I choose. Or should I go for the true big bore .500 which I can actually get ammo for, the recoil isn't going to kill me, it's got its own cool factor as well, and it would avoid having too much overlap among the "small" .300 the medium .400 H&H (or similar)

Of course the easy answer is "just get both" and whichever one I go with I will most likely end up getting the other down the line as well. Just wondering where I should start and why?

Thank you all for the wisdom!
 
Personally I think the .500/.416 is the best double caliber for a visiting hunter. It’s a little faster and therefore produces more energy and has much better penetration on things like elephant. It’s shoots flatter if you are trying to make it do everything by taking longer shots with a scope.
 
You have narrowed down your first double to an excellent caliber. There are vendors who load ammo for just that caliber, Hendershots in Hancock Maryland has a number of flavors of bullets which they can load for you. I believe you'll find their prices from around 160 to 220 a box, something like that. I just found a LNIB Sabatti, 9.3x74R, and just took possession of it yesterday, I have yet to shoot it. If I can handle that recoil, I may opt to step up to the bigger 450/400. 450/400 is the biggest caliber I am willing to shoot given 3 shoulder surgeries. Good luck to you, you cannot go wrong buying a double, they do not lose value!!
 
.... I can honestly say after shooting the .470 nitro that the recoil was fine for me. Manageable, and you still feel like you're carrying a serious weapon. I've been told the .500 is only a little worse and gives a little more performance?

...Or should I go for the true big bore .500 which I can actually get ammo for, the recoil isn't going to kill me, it's got its own cool factor as well, and it would avoid having too much overlap among the "small" .300 the medium .400 H&H (or similar)

I find in the meantime? I've heard it said that the 450/400 is the first double you should buy and the last one you should ever sell...

My "first" double was a .500 NE. I used it successfully for an elephant and a buffalo last year and will be repeating in August. So, if DG is your primary quarry then I would go for it. Recoil is often exaggerated by people that haven't shot one.

Full disclosure: Prior to the .500 NE I was shooting bolt guns generating more recoil (at least on paper) for a long while so I had the technique down and was comfortable shooting big bores.

However, you can't go wrong with a 450/400 from Heym.
 
How did the 450/400 come about?
was there a ban on the 470, at one time?
Loaded question perhaps. but the 450/400 seems to be the going thing .. ;
 
Hello @Garrett89, I went through the same dilemma and opted for the 450/400. The reason is that it is pegged as the perfect buffalo calrtridge snd does very well on everything below that too. But having watched many you tubes and clips I am convinced that it is also a perfectly adequate elephant round. I have no elephant experience myself though.
the 375 H&H is known to be good enough for everything, and the 450/400 is one up, so that is good enough in my eyes without being overkill.
 
The 450/400 was around before the 470. it started a black powder round as 450/400 2 3/8 and the 3in and 3 1/4 in rounds followed once cordite became the smokeless powder. The 404 Jeffery was developed in a bolt gun to match the 450/400 ballistics. The 450/400 3 1n3 3 1/4in were the all around round that was only displaced when the 375 H&H came out. I have shot/owned doubles in 7x65 to 577 and the 450/400 is a fantastic round that will take anything that walks. It doesn't have the stopping powder of the 470 and bigger but if you are planning a solid all around double that you will use for maybe one or two elephants and buffalo on your DG list go for the 450/400. If you are looking to make elephants you primary DG get the 470 or bigger. since you are looking at building a couple bolt guns. My suggestion is get the 450/400 3in (Brass and round will become available) and build a 404 Jeff, or 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs for your bigger bolt rifle.
 

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For the price they are asking ($5,500) one can get a custom one built. Though it would not be a double.
 
Hello all!

I'm relatively new to this forum and I've learned a great deal already. I feel like this might be a great place to get some input on a decision I'm trying to make since it seems as though I can't really go "wrong" either way...

I have researched double rifle calibers and cartridges extensively for a while now and I am very much attracted to all of the good things said about the .450/400 3" for an actual hunting rifle as opposed to a "stopping" rifle in something like .500 nitro and up. The primary selling point in my mind is the versatility of the .450/400 since it is well known as being perfectly adequate for anything I'll ever care to hunt in my life. Also the history, the people who carried that cartridge (Corbett comes to mind), the stories, etc all make owning a rifle in that chambering very cool to a 32 year old kid like me.

Then part of me really likes the idea of having that true big bore in my hands the next time I make it over to Zim, or Tanzania, or somewhere down under. The versatility of the .450/400, as I said, is more attractive to me but then I do have plans to build bolt guns in the near future that would perhaps render that cartridge's versatility somewhat (I hate to say it)...pointless? I plan to have something built in .300 H&H (for plains game) and maybe .400 H&H just because I like a lot of things about the both of them. I can see why having a double in .450/400 and a scoped .400 H&H or similar would be smart.

There is also the issue of ammo availability. Right now everything is hard to come by but I still see .500 nitro factory loads and components available presumably since fewer people use rifles chambered for it. Meanwhile 450/400 is almost nonexistent and when it does pop up it's almost always solids and a box of 20 goes for at least what .500 and .470 is going for maybe even a little more. I can honestly say after shooting the .470 nitro that the recoil was fine for me. Manageable, and you still feel like you're carrying a serious weapon. I've been told the .500 is only a little worse and gives a little more performance?

So my conundrum is...should I stick with the 450/400 and just hope for ammo to be available again while mastering shooting a double with whatever ammo I find in the meantime? I've heard it said that the 450/400 is the first double you should buy and the last one you should ever sell. I'm sure that's very true and I do very much like it's versatility. It definitely has its own cool factor. Also I've got plenty of wild hogs here in Texas to practice on with whatever I choose. Or should I go for the true big bore .500 which I can actually get ammo for, the recoil isn't going to kill me, it's got its own cool factor as well, and it would avoid having too much overlap among the "small" .300 the medium .400 H&H (or similar)

Of course the easy answer is "just get both" and whichever one I go with I will most likely end up getting the other down the line as well. Just wondering where I should start and why?

Thank you all for the wisdom!
I have a 450-400 3 and love it. Have taken buff and pg with it. Using it for elephant next year. I want to enjoy shooting a gun not just tolerating its recoil. I had a 470 that was just too much recoil so I sold it
 
I simply love the 450/400 3", kicked off when a friend let me try out his double. Huge mistake on my part. Since then, I've acquired a Ruger #1 chambered in that cartridge, and the reloading components to feed the addiction.
Since then, I've been saving up my coins for a double, and learning all I can regarding each builder's offering.

Like you, I was beginning to wonder if ammo, brass, and bullets would ever become generally available again, and consequently started considering a 9.3x74R, a .375 Flanged, or even a .375 H&H in a double.
The problem is (not really) I already have a 9.3x62mm and a .375 H&H and really didn't want to duplicate those calibers in a double.

Recently when I was able to pick up a few boxes of Hornady ammo loaded with solids, the first in a very long time, I was really happy. Someone, somewhere is still making the components and the ammo.

So I'm putting on hold my plans to purchase a double in a different caliber and waiting to see if more ammo becomes generally available such that my stash of components becomes self-sustaining.

Holding out for the 450/400 3"!
 
I have managed to find Bertrams brass and Hornady DGX and DGS relatively easily in Johannesburg. There are several good bullet makers in RSA that are producing .410 cal 400 grain bullets
 
Jut to stir the pot and provide cheaper alternatives for those who care, here is how I addressed the 450/400 question a few years ago.
I reduced the issue to the ballistics for 300 grain NF and/or 400 grain Woodies to provide the performance needed. Guess what, I already had one rifle that could provide both the 300 and 400 grain performance. My Winchester 1895 Lever action TD .405 WCF whose standard chambering is the 300 grain .411 bullet at 2200 fps. It took no imagination to use the .411 400 grain bullet as others had already done to provide a MV of 2100 fps. It has worked nicely!

This also provided justification to buy a custom Simson Suhl .405 DR that I had been lusting for. It was regulated for the 300 grain bullet and also regulates a 400 grain load nicely.

So now I have two very satisfactory solutions for 450/400 performance without the concerns of ammo availability. The .405 DR proved itself quickly on red deer exotics here in Texas - one shot and down with the 300 grain NF from a distance of 100 yards. I did use the QD scope for that one.

In case you missed the story posted on this forum, the 1895 .405 had already been successful in RSA .
 
I have managed to find Bertrams brass and Hornady DGX and DGS relatively easily in Johannesburg. There are several good bullet makers in RSA that are producing .410 cal 400 grain bullets
If you are determined to have a forty something then I will also add a vote for the 500-416. In a quality double like a Krieghoff or Blaser S2 it can be scoped to take advantage of the rifle’s inherent accuracy and the cartridge’s excellent MPBR. For a non-stopping double (like the .416 in a bolt gun or the venerable .450 in a double), the 500-416 is an extremely versatile alternative.
 
I have managed to find Bertrams brass and Hornady DGX and DGS relatively easily in Johannesburg. There are several good bullet makers in RSA that are producing .410 cal 400 grain bullets
Hmmm...
I wonder if I'm allowed to bring any of that back with me on my next trip. I'll have the time to shop.
 
450/400 NE is a great cartridge but a 500/416NE makes a lot more sense....it however seems that history and nostalgy still rules....
500/416 NE is the perfect double for a visiting hunter or an experienced African one....it has the perfect ballistics for all African game....
 
If you are determined to have a forty something then I will also add a vote for the 500-416. In a quality double like a Krieghoff or Blaser S2 it can be scoped to take advantage of the rifle’s inherent accuracy and the cartridge’s excellent MPBR. For a non-stopping double (like the .416 in a bolt gun or the venerable .450 in a double), the 500-416 is an extremely versatile alternative.
(416) is sort of the standard, ?
 

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