450gr loads for 404 Jeffery

[Cervus elaphus]

Looking ahead, a handload for the above. On another site I found a piece by Geoff at Woodleigh bullets for the 450gr SN in .416 Rigby

Federal 215 primer
450gr SN bullet
94 grains IMR 4831 for 2304 fps
94 grains H 4831SC for 2300 fps

2300 fps is the max I'm looking at.
Would these powders be also suitable to work up for the 404J ?
Anyone have a pet load for the same velocity?

 

[Proneshooter]

From the Woodleigh manual.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

View attachment 397796
From the Woodleigh manual.

Yes I saw that thanks, max velocity 2160fps, I was wondering if it's possible to take it up higher or is that the max pressure allowed?

 

[Proneshooter]

Yes I saw that thanks, max velocity 2160fps, I was wondering if it's possible to take it up higher or is that the max pressure allowed?

That will depend on your particular rifle and your shoulder. I find 2300 fps. and a 400gr. bullet in the 404 about as much recoil as I can still shoot accurately. Not sure what a 450gr would be like at 2300

 

[Cervus elaphus]

That will depend on your particular rifle and your shoulder. I find 2300 fps. and a 400gr. bullet in the 404 about as much recoil as I can still shoot accurately. Not sure what a 450gr would be like at 2300

That was for a 416 Rigby, so I'm thinking it's better to work up to a sensible 2250fps for a Woodleigh 450gr which is still 100fps above the standard Norma factory mv. Will contact Geoff at Woodleigh at some stage and see what he says about powders and barrel twists for this particular bullet.
Swift factory loads for the 404J 400gr are 2357fps, and 2325fps for the Norma factory 400gr

 

[Proneshooter]

That was for a 416 Rigby, so I'm thinking it's better to work up to a sensible 2250fps for a Woodleigh 450gr which is still 100fps above the standard Norma factory mv. Will contact Geoff at Woodleigh at some stage and see what he says about powders and barrel twists for this particular bullet.
Swift factory loads for the 404J 400gr are 2357fps, and 2325fps for the Norma factory 400gr

I'm sure 2300 is doable in the right rifle. I have seen some load data posted right here on this website for the 404 that I found downright frightening. I would think if anyone can answer this for you it would be Geoff. I will admit to never messing with the 450gr. bullets, but I do think they are a good idea. Wish I could help out more. You could contact Von Gruff though the website, he is a wealth of information when it comes to the 404 and has always been willing to share and help anyone.

 

[Shootist43]

Cervues elaphus, why are you think you need a 450 Gr. bullet for your 404 Jeffery? Lots of us load the 400 Gr Swift A Frame at 2300 FPS and get sub MOA. IMHO that bullet and velocity is about as good as it gets in / out of a 404 Jeffery.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

I'm sure 2300 is doable in the right rifle. I have seen some load data posted right here on this website for the 404 that I found downright frightening. I would think if anyone can answer this for you it would be Geoff. I will admit to never messing with the 450gr. bullets, but I do think they are a good idea. Wish I could help out more. You could contact Von Gruff though the website, he is a wealth of information when it comes to the 404 and has always been willing to share and help anyone.

Thanks for your reply Proneshooter, appreciated. I anticipate using either a solid bolt like the AHR with an all up added weight of 10lbs, or a custom based on a heavier Enfield action. The 400gr Woodleigh Weldcore is an excellent bullet along with their Hydrostatic solid but there doesn't seem to be a lot of load data for the 450gr above what is in the chart you posted earlier

Cervues elaphus, why are you think you need a 450 Gr. bullet for your 404 Jeffery? Lots of us load the 400 Gr Swift A Frame at 2300 FPS and get sub MOA. IMHO that bullet and velocity is about as good as it gets in / out of a 404 Jeffery.

It's a bit like the answer to climbing Mt Everest, because it's there, and you're right, the 400gr Swift/Woodleigh bullets are excellent for the purpose in this old rifle. Like Mt Everest, I'm curious because it's there on the bullet list.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

Looking ahead, a handload for the above. On another site I found a piece by Geoff at Woodleigh bullets for the 450gr SN in .416 Rigby

Federal 215 primer
450gr SN bullet
94 grains IMR 4831 for 2304 fps
94 grains H 4831SC for 2300 fps

2300 fps is the max I'm looking at.
Would these powders be also suitable to work up for the 404J ?
Anyone have a pet load for the same velocity?

Thanks everyone for your replies, I have a better idea now of the capabilities and limitations of the venerable 404J. One question that may be on a lot of minds is why did Woodleigh create the 450gr Weldcore when consensus is the 400gr has been the ideal bullet weight for this rifle from day one to today?. Was it to compete with the 416? If this was the case, then why not just get a 416? there is plenty of loading data and bullets for this caliber. Cheers and good hunting.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Doctor Kevin Robertson was instrumental in developing Norma's .404 jeffery load, which uses the 450 grn Woodeigh solids and bonded softs. He obviously thinks that heavier is better.

Geoff at Woodleigh recommends 2150 fps for the 450 grain bullets.

 

[IvW]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I have a better idea now of the capabilities and limitations of the venerable 404J. One question that may be on a lot of minds is why did Woodleigh create the 450gr Weldcore when consensus is the 400gr has been the ideal bullet weight for this rifle from day one to today?. Was it to compete with the 416? If this was the case, then why not just get a 416? there is plenty of loading data and bullets for this caliber. Cheers and good hunting.

Increased SD
Increased penetration(many will say 404 Jeff lacks penetration on elephant)
404 Jeff never had to and still does not need to compete with the 416 Rigby....
404 did all the in field work in Africa while 416 Rigby took all the glory....
404 Jeff will hold one more in the sane platform versus 416 Rigby, with less recoil...
Same reloading data availible for 404....

 

[John Telford]

Doctor Kevin Robertson was instrumental in developing Norma's .404 jeffery load, which uses the 450 grn Woodeigh solids and bonded softs. He obviously thinks that heavier is better.

Geoff at Woodleigh recommends 2150 fps for the 450 grain bullets.

Woodleigh also made some 650grn bullets for Kevin’s 505 Gibbs so perhaps going heavy was an experiment which worked out?

 

[Dirtdart]

The only load in my Norma manual but may be of some assistance.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

The only load in my Norma manual but may be of some assistance.

Thanks for the data

 

[Cervus elaphus]

Woodleigh also made some 650grn bullets for Kevin’s 505 Gibbs so perhaps going heavy was an experiment which worked out?

Woodleigh supplied the 450gr soft for Norma's African PH, and that runs at 2150fps.

 

[Dirtdart]

Here was my attempt to duplicate the Norma PH 450 grain load. The extreme spread not no great but plenty accurate with the average being spot on. Barrel length on this rifle is 22 inches. No pressure signs in my rifle but I am posting this for reference only.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

Here was my attempt to duplicate the Norma PH 450 grain load. The extreme spread not no great but plenty accurate with the average being spot on. Barrel length on this rifle is 22 inches. No pressure signs in my rifle but I am posting this for reference only.

View attachment 398181

That's pretty damn good Dirtdart and thanks for the load data, I'm taking that onboard, I wasn't expecting that kind of accuracy.

 

[Cervus elaphus]

Here was my attempt to duplicate the Norma PH 450 grain load. The extreme spread not no great but plenty accurate with the average being spot on. Barrel length on this rifle is 22 inches. No pressure signs in my rifle but I am posting this for reference only.

View attachment 398181

p.s. Have you done any loads for the 300gr CE Safari Raptor?. This is a very versatile bullet. The nearest load data I could find was for the .375 H&H.

 

[Dirtdart]

p.s. Have you done any loads for the 300gr CE Safari Raptor?. This is a very versatile bullet. The nearest load data I could find was for the .375 H&H.

I have never used any CE bullets yet so can't help. Somewhere I may have some load/chrono data on 300 grain Hawk's in the .404 Jeffery. Would that be of interest if I can find it?

 

[Cervus elaphus]

I have never used any CE bullets yet so can't help. Somewhere I may have some load/chrono data on 300 grain Hawk's in the .404 Jeffery. Would that be of interest if I can find it?

Yes that would be of help - I quite like the Hawk bullets, nothing fancy, solid performers and they remind me of the old days. Thanks