9.3x74R or 72? Ernst Steglieder

[Seth Krupp]

I have this very cool old gun. It’s a Ernst Steglieder from 1909. Having difficulty determining round size. I do know it’s a 9.3.... but cannot determine what size.

 

[Red Leg]

No clue - need photos. All sorts of makers from turn of the century to WWII about which we know almost nothing. If you can send photos of the gun, the action, and the proof marks we can likely help. If a break open gun like a drilling or SxS it could indeed be a 9.3x74R - However, there were probably ten 9.3X72R's made for every 74R. If a bolt action it is neither. Pictures!

 

[Seth Krupp]

No clue - need photos. All sorts of makers from turn of the century to WWII about which we know almost nothing. If you can send photos of the gun, the action, and the proof marks we can likely help. If a break open gun like a drilling or SxS it could indeed be a 9.3x74R - However, there were probably ten 9.3X72R's made for every 74R. If a bolt action it is neither. Pictures!

 

[Red Leg]

So it is an early 20th century kipplauf (break open single shot). These are indeed often well made little stalking rifles. I don't believe I have ever seen one in 74R, so if it is a 9.3 it is more likely to be in the 72R family. I say family, because there were probably half a dozen proprietary and non-proprietary 9.3's in the same power range as the 72R (somewhat similar to the North American 32 Winchester.) The proof marks and some internet research will help, but the only sure way is to do a chamber cast. Any competent gunsmith familiar with German/Austrian firearms can do that for you and quickly determine the caliber (or at least what it isn't). He also should give it a thorough going over. Many of these old rifles were treated badly, and making sure everything is still safe is a very cheap investment.

 

[Seth Krupp]

Ernst Steglieder 9.3

• Seth Krupp
• Mar 27, 2019

Made in 1909

 

[Seth Krupp]

Ernst Steglieder 9.3

• Seth Krupp
• Mar 27, 2019

Made in 1909

 

[Seth Krupp]

Ernst Steglieder 9.3

• Seth Krupp
• Mar 27, 2019

Made in 1909

 

[Seth Krupp]

Ernst Steglieder 9.3

• Seth Krupp
• Mar 27, 2019

Made in 1909

 

[Seth Krupp]

Ernst Steglieder 9.3

• Seth Krupp
• Mar 27, 2019
• 1

Made in 1909

 

[Seth Krupp]

The proofs have been identified. Made in 1909. Certified with modern powder in 1942. Just no idea on if it’s a 74 or a 72. I have 74 snap cap and it fits in chamber and closes without issue.....

 

[Seth Krupp]

I misspoke 1943.

 

[DonT]

Since many of these guns were modified over the years I would agree with the previous recommendations in that a chamber cast is the only way to determine the proper round to use in the gun. I would also agree that if it has not been modified that it most likely is one of the 9.3x72r family of cartridges and not a 9.3X74r, Not trying to be "snarky" but because a particular snap cap goes into a gun does not mean that is the correct cartridge.
The 9.3x72r, of which I have had a number of, is a much lower pressure round than the 9.3x74r and using the higher pressure cartridge in a gun designed for the 9.3x72r could have very unfavorable results to say the least.

Another place to ask is the German Gun Collectors Association site, ( www.germanguns.com ) as there are a lot of knowledgeable folks there that can help steer you in the correct direction...

DonT

 

[Red Leg]

A 74R from a 72R is a prescription for setting off a grenade against your face. This rifle is already in pretty well used condition. Looks like the forearm is a replacement and that the stock head has been repaired. Most of the little Klipplaufs were not nearly robust enough to manage the pressures and recoil of a 74R. If you are in North America, many of these were GI bring backs from the War, and have had all sorts of things done to them by shade tree gunsmiths who were clueless about such rifles - including ill advised re-chamberings. I strongly urge you to have it checked out by someone who knows his way around such rifles.

 

[Seth Krupp]

I appreciate everyone’s input. I take no offense to your opinions and recommendations, as I know very little about this. Is there any value in a gun like this?

 

[Peter Larsson]

Looks like my Sauer Tell.
They were made in 9,3x57R/360.

 

[Black Fly]

That is a nice little rifle, but you really need to be sure what cartridge it is chambered for before you shoot it. I don't see an N for nitro in the original proofs, so it would lead me to believe it was originally for black powder. I dont see theSt. M G for jacketed bullets either. I've had guns of that time period that were so marked and i believe they would be there if proved for them. But German proofs are a study unto themselves and i am not an expert. As others have said, you need a chamber cast. There are a lot of 9.3 cartridges in that era. There are several 9.3x72's, a 9.3x70 and the 9.3x74 black powder, nitro and one that was only for lead and Some other 9.3's that I cantrecall. Some are very similar in dimensions but very different in loading and pressures. Some of the x72's are not interchangeable. To make things worse, there were some rechambered to cartridges the actions were not designed to handle after they came to the states. After you do a chamber cast, you will need to slug the bore, best done at three places, just in front of the chamber, a full length one and one just the last couple inches at the muzzle. Then put the pieces of the puzzle together. Cartridges of the World is a start, but after you get all your dimensions, a visit to the German Gun Collectors forum would be a good idea. There are very knowledgeable folks there that will willingly help you. Then you should have a pretty good feel for the correct cartridge. Wish you well on an interesting project.
Bfly

 

[GuttormG]

I would definitly not try to fire a 9,3x74r from that gun, there is no way it will hold up. I have had one of those (mine was originaly some kind of 8mm, but had been opened to 9,3x72r.
If it is rechambered to x74r; in my opinion the right thing to do is to deactivate and keep as a wall hanger.