A thorough conversation with Swarovski - Conclusion: Rookhawk knows nothing and is wrong about everything

[CoElkHunter]

I have one rifle with one figured I needed to at least experience it before criticizing. All I do is spend all my time paranoid that the turret has gotten moved without me knowing it.

A friend of my father in law has missed two elk fiddling with the turrets on his Burris scope. My father in law has taken multiple shots at an elk within 300 yards with his turreted Night Force scope before he got it. Now, a big part of that is they both don't practice with their rifles/scopes. They're using the turrets as a substitute for practice and familiarization. How many more hunters are out there just like them? I'll bet THOUSANDS!

 

[WAB]

A friend of my father in law has missed two elk fiddling with the turrets on his Burris scope. My father in law has taken multiple shots at an elk within 300 yards with his turreted Night Force scope before he got it. Now, a big part of that is they both don't practice with their rifles/scopes. They're using the turrets as a substitute for practice and familiarization. How many more hunters are out there just like them? I'll bet THOUSANDS!

I’ll say it again, what the hell is anyone
doing using turrets inside 400 yards???

 

[sureshot375]

Well I’m glad other people have started to realize you don’t know anything!!

It is bizarre that so much of the market is dedicated to turrets and crazy reticles. These are useless for 98% of all hunting applications.

How hard would it be for Leupold to make non-cds models???

In a somewhat related topic, Euro Optic has pretty good prices right now on the 1” z5 and z5i lineup.

I accidentally picked one up last night.

 

[franzfmdavis]

I looked at the Leica Fortis glossy scope at SCI and the fit and finish was impressive - it had an illuminated reticle and it was a high gloss and classic design, which would compliment a polished blued traditional rifle. I don't have one yet, but the specs seem practical too.

 

[375Fox]

How hard would it be for Leupold to make non-cds models???

This is my big frustration as well. I have zero use for CDS or any ballistic turret and especially 10x power and under.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’ll say it again, what the hell is anyone
doing using turrets inside 400 yards???

I agree, they would do themselves a credit to get a fixed 4x and practice.

 

[Aaron N]

@PerH - 8 x 56 “all rounder” - why would a 56m objective ever be an advantage? And if so, why not a 66 or 76….so we could shoot at Night by the light cast from Mars or Saturn ?

Because the pupil displayed to 7mm, so 56mm objective on 8 power will let 7mm’s worth of light to pass through. This is an extreme bastardizarion of a lecture given on here by @One Day...

 

[CoElkHunter]

I’ll say it again, what the hell is anyone
doing using turrets inside 400 yards???

I wouldn't know as I don't have a scope with turrets. I do have the BDC feature on a couple of scopes but I don't use it because the scope has to be set at full magnification for it to work. Also, why does anybody need a heavier 30mm scope for average hunting distances? I personally have never run out of adjustment on my 1" scopes when sighting in. Maybe with the turrets a 30mm is needed? I don't know. I do like the 50mm objective for light gathering ability at dawn/dusk with my few scopes. An illuminated reticle would be great though.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Because the pupil displayed to 7mm, so 56mm objective on 8 power will let 7mm’s worth of light to pass through. This is an extreme bastardizarion of a lecture given on here by @One Day...

Yes, @One Day... had a very detailed explanation of all this in one of his posts on a thread but I can't remember which one.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I agree, they would do themselves a credit to get a fixed 4x and practice.

Yes. From about '75 through '93, I had a fixed 4x Bushnell (before Bausch and Lomb bought them) scope on my .270 Winchester M70. It had a mechanical "Command Post" where you could pop it up in low light conditions. I shot several deer, pronghorn and one pig with it. I still have the scope which had the elevation knob sheared off when it came out of a scabbard and onto the ground and a horse stepped on it. Still held zero after that. I guess they don't make them like they used to? LOL

 

[Sideshow]

The main thing is to know your gun/load and be able to get on target quickly. I've dialed at distance a few times on game (like Coues) but the main thing is knowing your setup and being able to shoot with confidence in as little time as possible. Sometimes game is unaware but a lot of opportunities don't last more than 10 seconds if that.

I think the most common mistake I have seen in the field is having too much magnification dialed up and the shooter can't see the animal or find them...or they switch back and forth between binos and riflescope. If the PH calls it out to you, get on the scope with as little delay as possible. When I see the sticks coming up, I'm setting up right now while the PH is making a decision. I want to be ready to shoot without delay. Get on the sticks and get settled onto the right animal and get your breathing under control while making any small adjustments if needed.

Thanks for this good point about not mucking about but getting on the sticks. Thought it was worth mentioning as I could see myself doing just that trying to see what the PH has seen and not getting ready for the shot.

 

[HankBuck]

If they are paid, that is their profession = they are "professionals." Ideally they should be "marksmen" but I'm not sure there is any process for testing them. And I'm not sure there isn't a process.

@Ontario Hunter - there was NO qualification process - it was all about Who-you-knew to get in and if you had the free time at night…I had an “in” (friends did it and one of them shot no better then You) - my FT job didn't allow the time required. I did do “Deer Control” on State issued depradation permits and I was paid by a Farmer to do it (meager wages to cover ammo & expenses) Does that make me a PROFESSIONAL DEER HUNTER?? As far as Professional - the guys I knew had FT jobs and careers in other areas so calling them “Professional” for the few $$ a season they got would be like referring to You as an Expert Hunter or being a “Professional” Blogger…. The main difference with these guys - they are connected, have the permits, and covered under LLC & insurance of whatever company they are part of —— some guys got No money and did it for fun.

 

[HankBuck]

Because the pupil displayed to 7mm, so 56mm objective on 8 power will let 7mm’s worth of light to pass through. This is an extreme bastardizarion of a lecture given on here by @One Day...

@Aaron N - sounds great and Marketing genius - but your eye/pupil can Not use 7mm and from what I’ve read there is little to zero benefit for anything over 5mm. Now, that’s what I’ve read and I’m no Optomologist…but I can’t be the only person that has read that “formula”? I will have to I defer to medical data and an Eye Doctor for an informed opinion and maybe admit I might be wrong. Lastly, even if your eye/pupil could use 7mm…and it was “measurably Better” on some chart (doubtful) — does that result in a meaningful increase in shooting accuracy? If so, I’ll go back to “why not a 66, 76, or 86 mm objective-Hubal Telescope size etc.”.

 

[Josh P]

@Aaron N Now, that’s what I’ve read and I’m no Optomologist…

What does the study of birds have to do with objective lens size?

Kidding aside, if we look at the trends in scopes and their reticles, it’s not even a copy and paste from tactical to hunting optics. Take the mk12, which has been popular forever and is arguably responsible for more innovation and change for the AR platform than any other model. (Free floating hand guards, special purpose platforms, etc.) Many of the early iterations had simple(r) duplex reticles and there are reports of guys using their own hunting optics on deployments.

It’s an interesting observation that guys were using an upgraded platform (intended for use out to 700m~) to engage other dudes and were using what were (not always) essentially hunting optics to do so. Now we have hunting platforms trying to utilize tactical Christmas tree reticles to engage deer.

Knowing your holds and being familiar with your tools is important in both tactical and hunting situations. Speed is important in both settings for different reasons. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[towserthemouser]

What does the study of birds have to do with objective lens size?

Ornithology has entered the chat, LOL.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Never underestimate a Birder and his knowledge of quality Glass They seem to be more objective and not married to one brand.

And are more knowledgeable than most hunters, they tend to focus on coatings not where the piece of equipment was made.

 

[Altitude sickness]

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I don’t think their lenses are designed for rifle scopes, but there’s no denying the quality of these Japanese lenses.

 

[towserthemouser]

Never underestimate a Birder and his knowledge of quality Glass They seem to be more objective and not married to one brand.

And are more knowledgeable than most hunters, they tend to focus on coatings not where the piece of equipment was made.

My wife and I turned out for a local Audubon bird walk recently. I was amused to find several there with more $$$ in the glass hanging around their necks than in the car they parked in the lot, LOL. They also tend to buy quality hiking shoes.

They are a fun group.

 

[Green Chile]

Birders are a serious group of enthusiasts who are not afraid to drop big money on good glass. The average birder probably knows more about optics technology than the average hunter. If you look at the big optics companies marketing material, you will see that they are going for that market segment most definitely.

 

[AZDAVE]

@Green Chile your observation of uses in the field are spot on. I always tell new hunters to set their scopes on the lowest power in case you bump something close. and that If you need to turn down from a higher power you will never have time but if you need to turn up the power You will have the time in most cases.