Casting for COVID???

[Fred Gunner]

Now that the panic buying frenzy of anything and everything remotely Firearms Related has peaked…I have embarked on a journey of self discovery.

I will master the ancient art of casting molten lead into firearm projectiles. I had a short lived flirtation with casting my own muzzle loading maxi balls over open fire…channeling my inner fur trapper.

I have procured all the modern equipment. Watch hours of YouTube Videos…Yet less than 25% of my casts fall into the “perfect Bullet” category.

I’m am seeking the ancient alchemists most closely guarded secrets to constantly cast the “Perfect Bullet”…

Please oh masters of molten metal pass on your wisdom to this poor apprentice…

 

[mdwest]

Subscribing to this thread!

I’ve been stocking up on reloading supplies when I can find them at decent prices (scored 5000 large pistol Primers for $150 last week and then traded into another 1000 on a good deal)...

Have gotten lucky and picked up a few additional pounds of each of my favorite powders recently at “normal” prices...

But haven’t been nearly as lucky with projectiles.. which has gotten me thinking about getting a few casting molds and playing around to see what I can do (partially because I really enjoy DIY and think it might be cool to make some projectiles of my own.. but also because I know where to get a significant amount of lead cheap.. and for the first time in my life I think there is at least some measure of a chance that there might be a day when bullets become almost impossible to procure.. either due to regulation, or price..

 

[Standard Velocity]

When I was a kid I would melt tire weights over a wood fire and cast them for 38’s. They came out best when I’d heat the mold by placing the corner into the molten lead before casting. Doubt any of them were ever “perfect” but they did have fewer obvious defects and weight was consistent.

 

[Andrew Short]

Does anyone have experience with accuratends.com?

$130 for a 0.423 mold.

 

[Fred Gunner]

I had best results with the Lyman single cavity Maxi Ball Mold for muzzle loading. So I'm using Lyman 4 cavity steel molds...Thinking of trying the lee aluminum molds...I may not be getting the steel molds hot enough???

Thought opinions steel Vs. aluminum molds

 

[Fred Gunner]

a chance that there might be a day when bullets become almost impossible to procure.. either due to regulation

Making my home in the Adirondack Mtns. of NYS…Manufacturing my own ammunition is an act of civil disobedience

 

[Hunter4752001]

Casting can be a trip down the rabbit hole. Sourcing lead supplies, making exotic alloys, working out just the right diameter for your barrel, heat treatment gear, gas checks, lubes, coatings, etc etc. If planing on wheel weights, remember that modern ones are often zinc rather the good bullet alloy used years back.

Some people love casting and find it the most rewarding part of their shooting. I'm not one of them. I loath casting. But I have the gear and have learnt to use it. Precisely because there may come a time when you can't get commercial projectiles, either due to shortages or regulations.

ps, make sure you have enough primers and powder otherwise even the best cast bullet won't be of much use

 

[Fred Gunner]

Casting can be a trip down the rabbit hole.

Mastering the metallurgical art the quest is it's own reward...Metallic cartridge reloading is like baking a cake just follow the directions. Making your own powder and primers is imposable...Making your own projectiles the quest for the "Perfect Bullet" is something worth mastering (When the Snow is to deep for anything else)

 

[fourfive8]

Good luck!- casting is a deep rabbit hole with many forks, dead ends and a maze at the bottom

IMO, single cavity iron molds are best for quality bullets. Best temperature is just a tad less than frosting temperature. Even slightly frosted bullets with sharp edges are better than super shiny ones with wrinkles or voids. Difficult to shoot cast bullets at high velocity while maintaining accuracy and minimal leading. Many times, contrary to much written opinion, little is gained by shooting super hard cast bullets to achieve better results at higher velocities/pressures. In an attempt to duplicate jacketed bullet performance, shooting super hard cast bullets at higher velocities/pressures may lead to poor accuracy, severe leading. I've had best luck with cast bullets that are about .001" larger than bore's groove diameter. Slug your bore for best cast bullet sizing (and mold selection to begin with) for a particular bore. Lee push though bullet sizers work very well as does simple pan lubing. I like a fairly soft lube that can be used for either smokeless or BP. Use a lead hardness tester- the Lee unit is inexpensive and works well once handling the little scope is mastered. For rifles, gas checked bullets work better than plain base. Best to keep velocity down around 1000-1200 fps max. A correctly sized, fairly soft (BHN 10-12), gas checked bullet of good design can be extremely accurate if pressures/velocities kept down. Start with pure or very soft lead, if possible... BHN of 4-6. Then add small quantities of something like older type wheel weight lead to bring BHN level up to desired hardness- testing frequently with hardness tester.

Roto Metals is one of the better known suppliers of certified lead and alloys- if that is desired... but the certified metals will usually cost quite a bit more.. Be aware, many scrap lead alloys encountered will contain unknown percentages of lead, tin, antimony and other minor elements. These are commonly used for bullet casting but the results may not be very consistent. Zinc and iron wheel weights are increasingly common because of toxic metal regulations.

Best to use plain base bullets for most revolvers and semi auto handguns. Keep pressures down to maintain integrity of the plain base. Using gas checked bullets in revolvers has inherent risk that few talk about. Low velocity/pressure ammo with gas checked bullets, shot through revolvers, can shuck the gas check in the bore leaving a bore obstruction for the next shot. Not necessary dangerous but may put a small divot or yaya in bore and at the very least it destroys accuracy.

For high volume cast bullet shooting... like handgun, I just order bulk from companies like Desperado or Magnus who produce quality products that I've had good luck with.

 

[Ray B]

I find that "perfect' bullets are the result of matching the temperature to the alloy being used. Matching involves both the mould and the molten metal. Being cheap I start pouring before the mould/metal has reached optimum temperature, then continue pouring as the temperature of both increases and finally get to the point where the bullets get frosty (too hot) then back off on the heat until they start getting wrinkled (too cool), increase heat and continue cycle. The less than perfects are carefully dropped back into the pot were they are remelted. A normal session would start with about 6 bullets being wrinkled, then about 25 perfects, then about 10 frosted as the heat peaks and drops back to perfect range. I suppose if I got a new furnace with digital thermostat I could eliminate the cycle, but the old Lyman XX has been good and I don't want to leave it for a new one.

 

[Ray B]

As for bullets for the 404 Jeffery, I've been looking for a mould but haven't gotten one yet, though I read good reviews about the one from Australia. Until then, I make do with Oregon Trail bullets designed for the 44/40. they are .427 and I run them through a .423 sizing die. They work well enough but are only 200 grain so it's like shooting pistol bullets in the rifle. A bullet of 350 - 400 grains would be a lot better.

 

[Hunter4752001]

If you've already got a furnace you're happy with, then you don't need to go to the expense of buying a new u-beaut Lyman digital. For a few dollars you can buy a PID and the various bits & pieces to build a digital temperature controller for your existing equipment. Plenty of instructions on the net on how to do it. (ps lots of people doing it before Lyman and other companies even thought about it). The PID should keep the alloy at your desired temp plus or minus 2 degrees and the digital readout means no more guessing temperatures - hence greater repeatability.

If casting for a revolver the critical dimensions are the cylinder throats and the groove diameter of the barrel. Ideally the cylinder throats should all be the same and should be 1-2 thou greater than the barrel groove diameter. A good smith can ream the cylinder throats for uniformity. The projectile should ideally be around the same size or a poofteenth larger than the cylinder throat. Test is to try pushing a projectile through the throat, it should only require a very gentle push with a pencil. Anything greater means its oversize, if it falls through unaided then its way too small.

 

[Fred Gunner]

Using gas checked bullets in revolvers has inherent risk that few talk about. Low velocity/pressure ammo with gas checked bullets, shot through revolvers, can shuck the gas check in the bore leaving a bore obstruction for the next shot.

Outstanding Info....I was looking a Gas checking 44 mag 240gr...You just saved me $$$ TY

" Best temperature is just a tad less than frosting temperature. Even slightly frosted bullets with sharp edges are better than super shiny ones with wrinkles or voids."

Ive been keeping temp between 700-750 for Lyman #2...Getting 50-60% go my casts with wrinkles and or not sharp groves...Using Lyman steel molds that I try to pre heat and keep hot?

Should I up the temp to 800?

 

[Bullthrower338]

As for bullets for the 404 Jeffery, I've been looking for a mould but haven't gotten one yet, though I read good reviews about the one from Australia. Until then, I make do with Oregon Trail bullets designed for the 44/40. they are .427 and I run them through a .423 sizing die. They work well enough but are only 200 grain so it's like shooting pistol bullets in the rifle. A bullet of 350 - 400 grains would be a lot better.

I’m not a caster but several of my friends swear by the moulds made by Hoch.

 

[Standard Velocity]

Good luck!- casting is a deep rabbit hole with many forks, dead ends and a maze at the bottom

IMO, single cavity iron molds are best for quality bullets. Best temperature is just a tad less than frosting temperature. Even slightly frosted bullets with sharp edges are better than super shiny ones with wrinkles or voids. Difficult to shoot cast bullets at high velocity while maintaining accuracy and minimal leading. Many times, contrary to much written opinion, little is gained by shooting super hard cast bullets to achieve better results at higher velocities/pressures. In an attempt to duplicate jacketed bullet performance, shooting super hard cast bullets at higher velocities/pressures may lead to poor accuracy, severe leading. I've had best luck with cast bullets that are about .001" larger than bore's groove diameter. Slug your bore for best cast bullet sizing (and mold selection to begin with) for a particular bore. Lee push though bullet sizers work very well as does simple pan lubing. I like a fairly soft lube that can be used for either smokeless or BP. Use a lead hardness tester- the Lee unit is inexpensive and works well once handling the little scope is mastered. For rifles, gas checked bullets work better than plain base. Best to keep velocity down around 1000-1200 fps max. A correctly sized, fairly soft (BHN 10-12), gas checked bullet of good design can be extremely accurate if pressures/velocities kept down. Start with pure or very soft lead, if possible... BHN of 4-6. Then add small quantities of something like older type wheel weight lead to bring BHN level up to desired hardness- testing frequently with hardness tester.

Roto Metals is one of the better known suppliers of certified lead and alloys- if that is desired... but the certified metals will usually cost quite a bit more.. Be aware, many scrap lead alloys encountered will contain unknown percentages of lead, tin, antimony and other minor elements. These are commonly used for bullet casting but the results may not be very consistent. Zinc and iron wheel weights are increasingly common because of toxic metal regulations.

Best to use plain base bullets for most revolvers and semi auto handguns. Keep pressures down to maintain integrity of the plain base. Using gas checked bullets in revolvers has inherent risk that few talk about. Low velocity/pressure ammo with gas checked bullets, shot through revolvers, can shuck the gas check in the bore leaving a bore obstruction for the next shot. Not necessary dangerous but may put a small divot or yaya in bore and at the very least it destroys accuracy.

For high volume cast bullet shooting... like handgun, I just order bulk from companies like Desperado or Magnus who produce quality products that I've had good luck with.

^^^^^
Excellent advice.

 

[bruce moulds]

Outstanding Info....I was looking a Gas checking 44 mag 240gr...You just saved me $$$ TY

" Best temperature is just a tad less than frosting temperature. Even slightly frosted bullets with sharp edges are better than super shiny ones with wrinkles or voids."

Ive been keeping temp between 700-750 for Lyman #2...Getting 50-60% go my casts with wrinkles and or not sharp groves...Using Lyman steel molds that I try to pre heat and keep hot?

Should I up the temp to 800?

yes 800 is a good place to start.
you might be able to work down to 750.
rate of pour and an even cadence of pour will help produce more even bullet weights.
ladle pouring in a single cavity mould will give more consistent bullet wts.
as mentioned above, cast or slug your bore to establish groove diameter and use bullets 0.001" bigger.
sizing bullets will detract from their quality.
best way to get the size is to order a good custom mould that casts the size you want.
lyman moulds are variable in both quality and size, and are best avoided.
you might try many of them to get a good one, and it will cost more than one decent one.
i do not measure hardness, but buy 99.6% pure lead and pure tin, and mix in ratios required.
for some uses, antimony as well is good.
buffalo arms are now making excellent moulds, and brooks moulds are very good.
beeswax is a very good flux for the alloy.
if you count to 3 when pouring, starting side on and bringing the mould upright you will get a reasonable fillout and expel air.
then let the sprue frost before cutting it off.
tap the hinge with your wooden rod to open the mould and expel the bullet.
repeat the process consistently.
20:1 lead /tin is not a bad place to start, up to 16:1 and from there start introducing antimony.
the best way to use antimony is to use a little tin and more antimony which is cheaper than tin for the same hardness.
bullets too hard will not expand on game.
pan lubing is better than a lubrisizer, because it disturbs the bullet less.
i shoot alloy bullets out to 1000 yards and they work as well as you make them.
preheating the mould on a small cheap electric hotplate can save time.
a lead thermometer is your friend.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, Fred Gunner, let the quality of product dictate the temperature. Some alloys, molds and pouring techniques prefer either hotter or colder by a small margin. 750-800 is usually a good place to start. Once in a rhythm that seems to produce sharp edged bullets, try to stay at that pace and temperature. Good custom molds are fairly expensive especially if you order/design them, purchase and then the size isn't right or design doesn't work... then have to do it all over again. Most rifles will do fine if basic design and weight is normal/proven for application and bullet is sized to about .001" larger than groove. Lyman makes good molds with proven designs. But don't expect the best results if your bore "says" for example "I want a 459" diameter bullet", your mold drops a .457" diameter bullet and you try to lubrisize it up to .458-.459". It would be much better to have a .458" groove bore spec and get a mold of good design that drops a 460" bullet and use a Lee push through die that is .459". For example- you can open up a Lee push through by a thou or two by using a drill press and chucking a rod wrapped in wet/dry 200-400 grit paper, oiling and "palming" the die on the rod to open it up. Slug regularly to check for diameter desired.

I've had good luck with both RCBS and Lyman molds for more common usages. Back when shooting a lot of BPCR stuff like 1885 Winchesters, Rem rollers and Sharps, I used iron Mountain Molds almost exclusively where I could design and order custom molds online.

 

[ChrisG]

I love casting! I haven't fired a jacketed or store bought bullet through any of my handguns or muzzleloader for years! and after I started my 12 bore schrifle project, I had to start casting a 775 grain wadcutter for that to load into the RMC brass cases.

Sourcing scrap lead is fine for plinking ammo (or pure lead for muzzleloader). When I need my bullets to be totally uniform in hardness, I get my alloy from rotometals (https://www.rotometals.com/bullet-casting-alloys/). Most of my molds are Lee aluminum molds. They work pretty good and throw decent bullets. I then lubrisize them down to the right size.

http://accuratemolds.com/ is where I got the mold for the 12 bore and he has hundred of choices, or you can submit your own drawing to have it cut. I think it was like $85 for the mold plus the $25 lee 6 cav handles.

The other company I like is http://www.mountainmolds.com/. He has a web page where you just design your own bullet, add it to your cart, and he will cut you a mold for that bullet. He is also pretty reasonable on price.

Here are the 775 grainers.

Plunk one of these into the breach at the range and people start looking at you funny.

Casting may be a rabbit hole, but it lets you do things you would otherwise have no way of doing... When was the last time you saw brass cased 12 bore rounds that look like supersized .38 special rounds on a shelf at a sporting goods store that slung almost 2 ounce lead bullets? So I think it is a rabbit hole that is well worth venturing down!

 

[Standard Velocity]

I love casting! I haven't fired a jacketed or store bought bullet through any of my handguns or muzzleloader for years! and after I started my 12 bore schrifle project, I had to start casting a 775 grain wadcutter for that to load into the RMC brass cases.

Sourcing scrap lead is fine for plinking ammo (or pure lead for muzzleloader). When I need my bullets to be totally uniform in hardness, I get my alloy from rotometals (https://www.rotometals.com/bullet-casting-alloys/). Most of my molds are Lee aluminum molds. They work pretty good and throw decent bullets. I then lubrisize them down to the right size.

http://accuratemolds.com/ is where I got the mold for the 12 bore and he has hundred of choices, or you can submit your own drawing to have it cut. I think it was like $85 for the mold plus the $25 lee 6 cav handles.

The other company I like is http://www.mountainmolds.com/. He has a web page where you just design your own bullet, add it to your cart, and he will cut you a mold for that bullet. He is also pretty reasonable on price.

Here are the 775 grainers.

View attachment 367179
View attachment 367178
View attachment 367180
View attachment 367183

Plunk one of these into the breach at the range and people start looking at you funny.

Casting may be a rabbit hole, but it lets you do things you would otherwise have no way of doing... When was the last time you saw brass cased 12 bore rounds that look like supersized .38 special rounds on a shelf at a sporting goods store that slung almost 2 ounce lead bullets? So I think it is a rabbit hole that is well worth venturing down!

Those 12 bore rounds are really cool. Are you loading them to shotgun pressure? What gun are you firing them in?

 

[ChrisG]

Those 12 bore rounds are really cool. Are you loading them to shotgun pressure? What gun are you firing them in?

They are only loaded to Shotgun pressure, there really isn't a need to push them that fast. I am pretty confident that they will kill anything on the North American continent inside 125 yards (further if I could hit reliably beyond that, but they drop like a rock).

My gun is a single shot H&R ultra Slug Hunter that has had the barrel cut down to 19" and recrowned, iron sights installed and a small vortex red dot. Its pretty handy and small but still weighs around 9 lbs because it is a 12 gauge rifle built on a 10 gauge frame.

Out of that gun these are moving about 1100 fps. So while they only hit with about 2,000 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, they carry about the same momentum as a .375 H&H shooting 300 grain bullets... and it is pretty evident on your shoulder when you let one off.