Double rifle conundrum

[Kevin Peacocke]

Totally agree I have a 500 ne Merkel a 470 ne Krieghoff and just bought a 450/400 Merkel it is lighter less recoil and just seems to work. May sell the Krieghoff and 500 now.

Old thread, but relevant. When I decided upon a 450/400 it was from the bottom up, I already have a 375 but felt a 450/400 ticked every single box for hunting whilst also promising ease of use for enjoyable range competitions etc. i see a lot of folks like you Lyle make the decision from the top down, the big boys maybe are just too expensive to shoot and just not comfortable.

 

[Tom Y. Hanssen]

Good evening, I just signed up here and have been reading through old posts about people buying first doubles. I am contemplating the same thing. I need another rifle about like another hole in the head but it is something I've always wanted. I live in central Oklahoma and hunt mainly hogs and deer and occasional coyotes. An Africa trip is in the future but nothing planned yet. I've owned a 458 Lott and shot it frequently. The only double I've fired was a Chapuis at Champlins in Enid in 470 NE. I really liked it a lot but don't think I need a 470 right now. I'm looking long and hard at 3-4 options right now and would like thoughts/comments concerning them.

Chapuis c10( over/under) in 375 flanged, new, probably can get the best deal in the group but I always thought I'd get a sxs double and having trouble getting over that thought

Chapuis sxs 9.3x74r, new, also can get pretty good deal but will have to wait at least 3-4 months to get

Merkel 141 in 9.3x74r, new

Merkel 450-400, new, would like the bigger caliber but it's about 1300 more than others and I'm having a lot of trouble finding components for reloading

Not strictly looking at new, but seems to be only ones I'm seeing right now.

So, I'm open to comments on caliber and other options I may have missed.

Thanks

Coming back from Africa in January after having harvested my first buffalo with my Blaser R8 in .375 H&H, I decided that next time I would hunt a buffalo with a double rifle. I found a slightly used Merkel .470 NE double for sale and bought it. I liked it so much that when my local gunshop had a brand new Merkel double in 9.3x74R for a really good price, I couldn’t resist. Put i scope on it and plan to use it on wild boar and plains game. Works really good and is a very neat rifle. Caliber gives a good punch and will definitely meet your needs for the game you are after.

 

[Rare Breed]

Good evening, I just signed up here and have been reading through old posts about people buying first doubles. I am contemplating the same thing. I need another rifle about like another hole in the head but it is something I've always wanted. I live in central Oklahoma and hunt mainly hogs and deer and occasional coyotes. An Africa trip is in the future but nothing planned yet. I've owned a 458 Lott and shot it frequently. The only double I've fired was a Chapuis at Champlins in Enid in 470 NE. I really liked it a lot but don't think I need a 470 right now. I'm looking long and hard at 3-4 options right now and would like thoughts/comments concerning them.

Chapuis c10( over/under) in 375 flanged, new, probably can get the best deal in the group but I always thought I'd get a sxs double and having trouble getting over that thought

Chapuis sxs 9.3x74r, new, also can get pretty good deal but will have to wait at least 3-4 months to get

Merkel 141 in 9.3x74r, new

Merkel 450-400, new, would like the bigger caliber but it's about 1300 more than others and I'm having a lot of trouble finding components for reloading

Not strictly looking at new, but seems to be only ones I'm seeing right now.

So, I'm open to comments on caliber and other options I may have missed.

Thanks

I bought a 470 DR but too much recoil. I then bought a 450-400 3 inch NE from George in Enis. I can shoot it all day and have taken Buff and PG with it. Taking it for elephant in 23. Best DR caliber in my opinion

 

[Tom Leoni]

The technology with extraction and ejection of rimless cases in double rifles and single shots has come a long way in the last 20-30 years. With my Chapuis Iphisi .375 H&H I need a catcher's mitt if I want to hang on to fired cases for reloading, since it flings them 15 feet behind me. Ditto with my old Ruger No. 1 in .416 Rigby, which I have since sold--but definitely not because of faulty extraction.

A word of caution on .450-400--right now it's virtually impossible to find ammunition for it, so much so that some manufacturers have put that caliber on hold due to lack of shells for regulation. A .375, a .450, a .470 and a .500 will be somewhat easier to get--and to get components for. Things will hopefully change, but in my industry-insider's opinion, not before quite a while. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I wouldn't discourage buying a used double rifle, especially from a reputable seller (e.g., Champlin, Perodeau, William Larkin Moore & Sons, etc.). I have four double rifles, two new and two 100+ years old. Functionality- and accuracy-wise, there's not a lick of difference between them. The advantages of the new ones are that they can be scoped without modification, and that they are regulated for modern commercial ammunition. The advantage of the old ones is that they are as fine-looking as if Phidias himself had sculpted them.

If I was a young guy a bit strapped for cash and just starting out on doubles, I wouldn't hesitate buying a used one--if nothing else, to see how I liked it. Double rifles are quirky and finicky, and it's perfectly fine to conclude that they are not for you after all. They lack the versatility of most other platforms, but--oh, my--are they a heck of a lot of fun to own and shoot when everything finally comes together!

 

[crs]

I just skipped to the bottom>
I have two DRa, a .405 WCF that easily duplicated]s the 450/400 and a 45/90 which so far is a real killa all of a458.

I have two other big bore rifles, a Winchester 1895 .405 WCF which shoots bullets of 210, 300, and 400 grains and has taken Cape Buff and an 1886 .45-90 which has taken ele, buff, etc.

Go for the 450/400 first..

 

[rookhawk]

Old thread, but relevant. When I decided upon a 450/400 it was from the bottom up, I already have a 375 but felt a 450/400 ticked every single box for hunting whilst also promising ease of use for enjoyable range competitions etc. i see a lot of folks like you Lyle make the decision from the top down, the big boys maybe are just too expensive to shoot and just not comfortable.

For the guys living in the States and complaining about large bore double rifle recoil, it doesn’t have to be this way for $300-$700 you can get a regulating load developed by a master.

I’m a very, very big guy and I was about ready to curl up in the fetal position after shooting my 470NE when I got it. I was shooting Nosler and Norma ammo that was horrific recoil. No muzzle rise, just the slow burning powder crushing me and leaving me black and blue after 4 shots.

You get a gun regulated to proper original specs using a powder like IMR3031 and your problems will be over. I think the calculation was 89lbs of recoil with the ammo I first tried, now a very pleasant 58lbs at 2050fps just like Kynoch specified a century ago.

Double rifles were built to use extinct stranded cordite. Stick with those pressures and a powder of similar properties like 3031 or reloader 15 and you won’t cry in pain.

most of the pain comes from imr4831 or worse powders with all the energy coming at you rather than down the barrel and into the animal.

 

[geoff rath]

Highly unlikely that I'll ever get near a good SXS double, but that doesn't stop me reading about, and fantasising about one. all we have Down under to use them on are scrub bulls (nasty buggers) and water Buff; the chance of returning to Afrika are minimal at best ... What I do enjoy is the level of support and common sense I read here, be it on D/G rifles or anything else; well worth the time reading, and ingesting.
I still feel the big shoulder hug I received from the huge American hunter (I'm 5'11', and he towered over me) after my hunt several years back, and his lovely lady Wife's support of my battered on Buff; a great memory.
Thank you, and I'll keep dreaming of Afrika, and double rifles ...

 

[Philip Glass]

Firstly, welcome to the forum. If it was me I would pay the bit more and go for the 450/400. Whatever your future plans are for using a double, you will need nothing more than this.

Agreed

 

[Rare Breed]

450-400 what I ended with and love it

 

[Puddle]

A word of caution on .450-400--right now it's virtually impossible to find ammunition for it, so much so that some manufacturers have put that caliber on hold due to lack of shells for regulation. A .375, a .450, a .470 and a .500 will be somewhat easier to get--and to get components for. Things will hopefully change, but in my industry-insider's opinion, not before quite a while. I hope I'm wrong.

I have regrettably arrived at the same conclusion. Doesn't mean I'm selling my #1 in .450-400 3", but the double I'll purchase will likely be a .375 H&H.

 

[Rubberhead]

In my mind, I always classify DGDG's (Dangerous Game Double Guns) as Offensive or Defensive.

Offensive DGDG's are used to take the first shot on unwounded game (usually at the heart/lung area with a soft point) then maybe a quick follow-up, often times with a solid, at somewhere else on the animal to break the animal down and keep it in sight while the first shot does its job.

Defensive DGDG's are carried by PH's and used to save lives at close range, on adrenaline-fuel animals usually running directly at someone. For Defensive DGDG's redundancy and reliability are king.

If we're honest with ourselves, a quality bolt gun is just about the field equivalent to an offensive DGDG, maybe even preferred because the wider range of optic options on a bolt and the familiarity to the gun by the user.

If I ever get a DGDG the financial hurdle will not be the cost of the gun, (call it $10k) but the frequency that I'd be able to use it. I figure about $20k minimum per animal considering flights, day-fees, etc. that will drive the decision.

That being said, my interest in hunting buffalo is greater than zero but my interest in killing a buffalo with something other than a double rifle is exactly zero...

When I started shopping for a first double rifle, I started looking at large caliber side-by-side guns. Thank goodness my pragmatic nature kicked in and I realized that it wasn't the first $10k that was the limiter, it was the $20k times N that was the problem. I'm an American that got to hunt 49 days in 2021 with a double rifle without every having to spend a dime on flights, day fees or trophy fees. The $/day or $/animal is something well within my pragmatic budget.

 

[Rare Breed]

In my mind, I always classify DGDG's (Dangerous Game Double Guns) as Offensive or Defensive.

Offensive DGDG's are used to take the first shot on unwounded game (usually at the heart/lung area with a soft point) then maybe a quick follow-up, often times with a solid, at somewhere else on the animal to break the animal down and keep it in sight while the first shot does its job.

Defensive DGDG's are carried by PH's and used to save lives at close range, on adrenaline-fuel animals usually running directly at someone. For Defensive DGDG's redundancy and reliability are king.

If we're honest with ourselves, a quality bolt gun is just about the field equivalent to an offensive DGDG, maybe even preferred because the wider range of optic options on a bolt and the familiarity to the gun by the user.

If I ever get a DGDG the financial hurdle will not be the cost of the gun, (call it $10k) but the frequency that I'd be able to use it. I figure about $20k minimum per animal considering flights, day-fees, etc. that will drive the decision.

That being said, my interest in hunting buffalo is greater than zero but my interest in killing a buffalo with something other than a double rifle is exactly zero...

When I started shopping for a first double rifle, I started looking at large caliber side-by-side guns. Thank goodness my pragmatic nature kicked in and I realized that it wasn't the first $10k that was the limiter, it was the $20k times N that was the problem. I'm an American that got to hunt 49 days in 2021 with a double rifle without every having to spend a dime on flights, day fees or trophy fees. The $/day or $/animal is something well within my pragmatic budget.

Greatly appreciate and respect your pragmatic comment…however many of us want and achieve the dream of the total experience…let’s be honest even with deer hunting the cost per pound is outrageous.

 

[Rubberhead]

Greatly appreciate and respect your pragmatic comment…however many of us want and achieve the dream of the total experience…let’s be honest even with deer hunting the cost per pound is outrageous.

Oh, I agree. See the part about hunting buffalo. Of course, different levels of income applied across identical levels of pragmatism will still yield different results.