Has anyone used Berger VLD for plains game?

[Brian Williams]

Greetings,

I am heading to SA with a group this august and plan to hunt plains game only. I purchased a new Blaser r8 in 300 wsm for the trip which after some work at the range I have discovered it likes the 185 gr berger vld ammunition much better than any other round I tried. A quick search on the internet has yielded widely disparate opinions as to the performance of this bullet on larger game. There are many reports of great performance on deer and elk but more people saying its a terrible bullet for anything other than paper.

I'm not trying to restart the debate on accubonds vs barnes vs berger vld etc. I'm just curious if anyone has used the vld on game such as kudu, gemsbok, wildebeest, and zebra. Those are the most likely animals I will be going after. Eland would be the largest I would consider. No big 5 or giraffe on my radar.

Many thanks in advance. I have plenty of time to find another round if necessary, but the vld groups extremely well for me and I have confidence in my ability to put the round where it needs to be at this point.

Brian

 

[GA Hunter]

Brian I used them a few years back in a 300 RUM and a 300 WM and in my opinion they performed well.

My bag on that trip included, impala, zebra, kudu, warthog, and nyala. All of which either fell in their tracks or ran less than 100 yds. However there was not a single exit hole on any of the animals I took and this made my PH very uneasy. In fact he ever so politely asked me not to bring them back if hunted with him again. In fact I have yet to speak with a PH that was in favor of this type performance. I have since switched to Accubonds for PG in hopes of calming the nerves of whoever I am hunting with.

I'm certain there is no shortage of people in this community that are against bullets that are designed to fragment after penetrating a few inches. All I am saying I have used them and they seemed to do well.

Whatever you decide, good luck, and make sure to share the story and pics with us!

BD

 

[Longwalker]

"Better" on paper targets is not always, or even most often "Better " IN game. I will always choose a hunting bullet a little less accurate that is more reliable when hitting heavy bone or at an unexpected and unavoidable angle. To do otherwise is to put the emphasis on the wrong variable.

 

[gillettehunter]

Bergers are good when used as designed. For the most part best preformance will be at impact velocities of 2100 to 2700 fps. Usually best preformance is also achieved with heavy for caliber bullets. like the 210's and 215's n the .30 cal. I used a 180 grain in my 7 SAUM last yr for 2 deer and 1 antelope. 75 to 325 yds. Got exits on all of them. In fact golf ball exits. Animals didn't go anywhere. Close range high velocity shots impacting the shoulder are not going to give you the best results.
Another thing to note. Bergers are a hollow point. Occasionally the point will be closed and they pencil through. Always use a small drill bit to check that they are open. Last yr found about 7 in a group of 100 that I checked that were closed. I use the drill bit to open it up. A good friend of mine manages a ranch where they have had some depredation elk hunts. He cleaned 76 elk in the last 2 seasons. His bullet of choice is a Berger 215 running about 3000 fps out of a .300 WM. If you want more info on the 215's PM me and I'll send you a link to a thread devoted to it. It has over 400 posts on it tho......

 

[enysse]

I think they are okay as long as you don't take quartering to shots or high shoulder shots. Broadside in the vitals, the animal is going to die easily due to the bullets design. It expands and will do massive damage.

 

[jduckhunter]

Been using them for a few years now on mule deer and pronghorns, most of the time the critters just flop on the spot. I'm using 115 gr. bullets in my 25-06 and starting them out at just over 3000 fps. I haven't shot anything close up with them yet, most shots are 200 - 400 yd. I haven't been able to recover any bullets yet either, they just keep on passing through no matter what the range is. I have to agree with Bruce on checking the tips to make sure that they are open though, cause if it's not you will get a very small hole straight through the critter.

 

[Philip Glass]

Congrats on purchasing such a nice gun for your safari! I have a custom Proof Research .300 RUM and the manufacturer said the 168gr Berger VLD were of the most accurate for that gun. I did not wind up using them and found my best accuracy with 180 Nosler Accubonds. That said most of the experts say a 200 grain bullet is more accurate in that caliber I did not want to go that heavy.
Sorry I don't have any experience hunting with the Berger bullets but 2 Texas Aoudad went down hard with the Accubonds recently and that tried and true bullet suits me. I would be very concerned about using hollow point or other frangible bullets in africa.
Enjoy the planning of your safari!
Philip

 

[Divernhunter]

Swift A-Frames or Nosler Partition or even the bonded core, plastic tip, boattail bullets they make would be a much better choice as far as I am concerned. Barnes TTSX is also an excellent choice. EVEN if they do not group quite a tight. We used Swift A-Frames in 2013 and all animals(20+) were one shot, kills from all different angles and ranges from 135 to 480 yards. We used 338win mag(225gr A-Frames) and 257R(120gr A-Frames). I also took a 30-06 with 150gr Barnes TTSX bullets but did not use it.

I am headed back on May 8th and will take the same 338win mag and bullets. This time I will take a 257W with 100gr Barnes TTSX and 120gr A-Frames since I have them shooting to within 1/2" of each other. I will again be hunting plains game--Eland, Zebra, Black Wildebeest, Black & White Springbok, Bushbuck, Red Hartebeest, Black Backed Jackal, Bat Eared Fox, Porcupine, Black Faced Impala, Monkey, Baboon, Steenbok, Caracal, Duiker and maybe some others

All rifles used before and for this trip shoot under one inch and actually shoot 3-5 shots into a cloverleaf. All loads are/were max loads.

Do yourself a favor and use a better(stouter) bullet. If you get a less than ideal shot your will be better off and show more respect for the game you plan to kill.

My 2 Cents

 

[fourfive8]

I too would avoid the Bergers. When choosing a bullet, a way to look at it is plan for the worst scenario not the ideal. I know that in order to get into the "hunting game" Berger started calling some of their bullets "big game bullets" but they are still nothing more than an old design cup and core with a slightly thicker tapered jacket. I remember when Nosler started doing the same thing with their Solid Base later called the Ballistic Tip. Under ideal conditions, most any manner of bullet can work but, by nature, hunting is unpredictable.

 

[Desert Dog]

I use the VLDs here in the states for pronghorn. They are fantastic on deer, elk, and speedgoats here in the states for that classic "behind the shoulder" shot that we love.

Unfortunately, many African plains animals have their vitals oriented more between the shoulders, so something that penetrates / holds together better after going through the first shoulder is a good idea. Also, this is just my observation and not scientifically backed by university research, but animals like gemsbok and zebra seem to laugh at normal lung shots and tend to run a great distance if you don't break the shoulder(s) down on the first shot. I have been very happy with the Barnes TTSX on African animals; every bullet has giving complete pass-throughs with good blood flow, and just crushed shoulder and bone to get to the vitals.

 

[Brian Williams]

So I posted the same question in another forum and have gotten similar answers. That is to say; no clear consensus but a preponderance of the responders have reservations about using the Bergers for plains game.
I have a box of norma oryx 180 gr on its way and still several boxes of nosler 180 gr accubonds at my disposal. Its frustrating to settle on a round that shoots minute of vital zone when my rifle seems to be capable of more. This is purely mental of course. I know 1.25-1.5 moa is plenty accurate for inside 300 yds, but it is a confidence boost and much more satisfying to see a group with all rounds touching.
My thanks for all those who responded. Sadly for me I had already placed an order for 10 boxes of the HSM bergers for my rifle. No returns on ammo purchases! I have a Tikka t3 that loved winchester xp3 ammo and when that got discontinued I had to start over and find a new round. Lots of $$ and lots of range time involved - not that range time isn't its own reward. I was planning to stock up on a very accurate round. I'm guessing it will be fine for deer, hogs and smaller game just not ideal for larger animals as the majority have suggested.

BW

 

[Desert Dog]

and still several boxes of nosler 180 gr accubonds at my disposal. Its frustrating to settle on a round that shoots minute of vital zone when my rifle seems to be capable of more. This is purely mental of course. I know 1.25-1.5 moa is plenty accurate for inside 300 yds, but it is a confidence boost and much more satisfying to see a group with all rounds touching.

Keep working with those accubonds. They are fantastic bullets, and can be very accurate with a little work. I use them in rifles that don't like the Barnes bullets, and love the 180 grain accubond in my 300 H&H. One IMPORTANT thing I learned with the accubonds; they LOVE to jump to the lands. BIG jumps. So keep them a good distance away from the lands ( .040" - .100") and try again. I had bad accuracy with them at first, then read on a forum that they like huge jumps. When I seated them out over .050", the groups shrank in half. Go figure.

 

[Ray B]

I have no experience shooting game with bergers; however I have used some open point bullets to great effect. the old Winchester OPE 130 gr .270 bullet has been very effective- performing similarly to a Nosler Partition- The open point blows off, then the flat-nosed slug pushes through. Not as dramatic but similar results can be obtained from the Sierra .257 90 gr open point GameKing. If Berger has followed these models ion the design of the hunting bullets, they should be very adequate.

 

[Brian Williams]

Range update for anyone interested. I tried the Norma oryx 180 grain and they were great. About .8 inches for 3 shots at 100 yds. I also tried the newer hornady eld-x 200 grain which shot even tighter .75 inches for 5 shots at 100 yds. The Norma seems to be a more field tested round, but I like the performance/price and sectional density of the hornady. Either one will work fine. I may bring a few boxes of both on my trip. POI was 1.5 inches different in height with no change in windage

 

[JGRaider]

I wouldn't even consider using those VLDH's for a plains game hunt. I've had them blow up on whitetail deer at ranges under 100 yds.

 

[Brian Williams]

Jgraider,

Were you referring to the Berger vld or the hornady eld x with your post and picture?

Thanks,
Bw

 

[Nosler guy]

Haven't and probably won't waste my time fooling around with Bergers - seems to be very mixed reviews on them - as many negative as positive -WARNING light goes on

Lots of good options out there for that rifle/caliber - Accubonds will get the job done - but I would be tempted to step up to Swift A-frames or Nosler Partitions, both are great plains game bullets, tested and proven ( these premium hunting bullets aren't always as accurate on paper, so guys tend to steer away from them. The truth is a fraction of an inch bigger group is bugger all in a hunting situation)

 

[CAustin]

I think I will run out and grab some of these! Ha!

 

[JGRaider]

Jgraider,

Were you referring to the Berger vld or the hornady eld x with your post and picture?

Thanks,
Bw

Brian, the Berger VLD H 168g hunting bullet. I also tried them out on about 15 hogs. Yes, they were very dead, but not one got an exit, and every single pig ran over 200 yds into the brush and died. Had I not seen where they went, I wouldn't have found any of them. No exit holes, no blood trail, nada. The only positive thing I can say is that they were very accurate. I won't shoot them at any game animal again, just vermin.

Conversely, I have shot probably 200 head of big game with a nosler partition, primarily 140 and 160 gr 7mm's. Bullet performance, in the typical partition style, has been exemplary. Lately though, within the past 8-9 years I've been shooting primarily Accubonds in the same grain and caliber. Killed probably 100 big game animals with these, including 40'ish African plains game antelope up through blue wildebeest and zebra size. Once again performance has been fantastic.

160gr accubond, 7mm Rem Mag, 3075 fps at muzzle. Shots ranged from 75-150 yds.

 

[cagkt3]

@Brian Williams I have shot the 143gr ELD-X out of my 6.5 Creedmoor. Great for long range target shooting, smoked a couple hogs with them, going to test it on whitetail this fall. I have a friend who has taken several deer with the ELD-X - he likes them as something you can shoot for fun at the range and hunt with.
I have some pics of the hog (shot at 120 yds) - behind the shoulder, double lung, pass through, hog ran 50 yds. Pics are pretty blurry though - night time pics w/ a phone.
2nd hog head shot at 75 yds, dropped - appeared to hit very hard as it popped one eyeball out of the socket.