How do you reload 1 caliber 3 different rifles, same recipe

[Ridge Runner]

Ok here is the problem:

I have an M1 Garand, Mossberg Patriot, and T/C Encore all 30-06 caliber.

Recipes...That is reload per Hornady reload data:

Primer: CCI #200 Large Rifle
Powder: IMR4064 (grain weight non applicable).
Bullet: 165/168 grain

C.O.A.L.:

M1: 3.220
All Others: 3.210

My C.O.A.L. is 3.213 - 3.221

Any C.O.A.L. greater than 3.213 creates a "stiff" or not able to bolt/ breach closure on the Mossberg; Greater than 3.211 the T/C fails to close. A C.O.A.L. less than 3.217 Greatly reduces accuracy in the M1.

All firearms are zeroed at 100 yards.

I need one C.O.A.L. to shoot accurately and function in all three types of firearms to avoid mix ups in which cartridge goes with which rifle. Should I need to grab a box and go or one rifle becomes "inoperative" and I need to resort to a back up rifle during a hunt.

All logical suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JimP]

You just need to find a happy medium that works in all 3.

It may not be the most accurate round in any of them but it is also going to depend on what you are using all of them for.

Remember in a hunting rifle you do not need a sub moa grouping for it to be a good hunting round and rifle. A couple of inches group would suffice for a hunting round, now what I would want but it would work.

 

[deepwater]

Try Hammer bullets as they are not sensitive to jump distance. Barnes are supposed to be adaptive as well.
If these monos do not work you may be sol with this endeavour.

 

[Don458]

Be careful when you reload for the M1 as im sure you know only certain loads can be used unless you have the proper gas plug . Any hunting round will surely cause disasters in Garands

 

[Ridgewalker]

Yep the Garand is the controlling rifle. Design your load around it if you’re planning a common load. Live with it in the others. JMO
Personally, I’d have two loads and keep the Garand loads in a totally different type of box such as a red Harbor Freight plastic box.
Best of luck and don’t destroy that M1 by mistake!

 

[fourfive8]

^^ Yes
Use the Garand as the standard basis. Research suitable Garand loads and specs- there is plenty of info out there. May or may not be the most accurate in the other two- but that is what it is. I think you will be fine with 4064 powder and 165 bullets seated to correct depth. Full length size cases and trim to recommended length. Make sure there is enough neck tension and if crimping into crimp groove make sure the roll crimp is correctly done. A poorly done roll crimp using the bullet seating die is much worse than no crimp. Better yet, adjust the seating die to avoid crimping with it and use a Lee FCD. The shape of the pressure curve is important for loading the Garand- pay attention to what the research says about this. Both 4064 and 4895 powders and spire point, conventional bullets in the 150 -170 gr range are what the Garand was designed for, with the 150 gr being the preferred. Also advisable to use CCI #34 primers- a slam fire in a worn or out-of-tune Garand is not a pretty thing. Hard to imagine a full length sized and trimmed to length '06 round with conventional 150 or 165 gr bullet seated to recommended depth/OAL all designed around Garand specs would not chamber and shoot in most any other factory 30-06 chamber.

 

[gillettehunter]

If making different loads for the garand than the others you might take a black magic marker and "color" the primers. Those you know are for the Garand as well as a special box only used for it. I also like the idea of the Hammer or Barnes bullets.
Bruce

 

[fourfive8]

I don't understand the interference you are reporting in chambering after looking at your ammo OAL specs. Standard 30-06 max OAL is 3.34". Every modern factory rifle chamber should easily accept standard SAAMI length and sized cartridges with common spire point bullets. You are experiencing something other than a Cartridge OAL problem. Sounds like a sizing issue or possibly headspace interference with the ammo being of mixed origin after firing in other chambers. Compare your ammo to a factory loaded cartridge. Resize your reloads to closely match factory ammo specs- Cartridge OAL, Case OAL, diameter at neck, diameter at shoulder, diameter at web and length from base to shoulder's headspace datum ring. All bets are off if your other rifle's chambers are not factory done. Most sizing dies will reduce ammo specs to near minimum SAAMI specs and those should nearly always fit any SAAMI factory chamber. Extremely rare for a factory chamber to be shorter and/or smaller than the sizing die specs... but? A correctly sized and loaded 30-06 cartridge for the Garand should easily fit any modern 30-06 factory chamber. If not then there is more to the story and not all information has been presented.

The Garand was designed to cycle and shoot ammo of a fairly specific type. It was designed around the US Cal 30 M2 Ball cartridge. You can come pretty close to M2 Ball ammo specs with either 4064 or 4895. About 46-47 gr of 4895 under a 150 grain spire point bullet is the standard and should give the correct pressure curve and an approx. velocity of 2700 fps. These specs will allow the Garand to operate at its best. Reduce the load slightly for the heavier 165 gr. to achieve an equivalent pressure. I never experienced a glitch nor hiccup in my Garand with full length sized brass, trimmed to recommended length of 2.484" with 46 gr H4895 under a 150 gr spire point crimped into groove with Lee FCD using CCI 34 primer.

If this can't be solved with careful sizing/trimming, I think it best to take all to a gunsmith who has a set of 30-06 Go, No Go gauges. Many smith's charge minimally for such a check as it takes seconds per rifle. Call around- if they charge more than about $10 go elsewhere.

Pics of 150 gr FMJ US Ordnance M2 Ball round dated 1943. Length is 3.30". Crimped in crimp groove. And pic of a couple of very useful reference books- Hatcher's Notebook and Duff's Garand book.

 

[Ray B]

With loads of the same cartridge for different rifles I make certain the cases are kept separate and each rifle has it's own loads. the easiest way that I have found is to sort by head stamp. For example, five 30-06s would have military FA, LC, Fed, RP & Win. They would each have their own box and treated just as if they were totally different cartridges.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ok here is the problem:

I have an M1 Garand, Mossberg Patriot, and T/C Encore all 30-06 caliber.

Recipes...That is reload per Hornady reload data:

Primer: CCI #200 Large Rifle
Powder: IMR4064 (grain weight non applicable).
Bullet: 165/168 grain

C.O.A.L.:

M1: 3.220
All Others: 3.210

My C.O.A.L. is 3.213 - 3.221

Any C.O.A.L. greater than 3.213 creates a "stiff" or not able to bolt/ breach closure on the Mossberg; Greater than 3.211 the T/C fails to close. A C.O.A.L. less than 3.217 Greatly reduces accuracy in the M1.

All firearms are zeroed at 100 yards.

I need one C.O.A.L. to shoot accurately and function in all three types of firearms to avoid mix ups in which cartridge goes with which rifle. Should I need to grab a box and go or one rifle becomes "inoperative" and I need to resort to a back up rifle during a hunt.

All logical suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

@Ridge Runner
The m1 is the most fussy to reload for as it need a particular pressure to operate smoothly and not bend stuff. So you are basically limited to a one trick pony that doesn't upset the M1.
Bob

 

[Ridge Runner]

@Ridge Runner
The m1 is the most fussy to reload for as it need a particular pressure to operate smoothly and not bend stuff. So you are basically limited to a one trick pony that doesn't upset the M1.
Bob

I opted to replace the standard issue gas plug with an adjustable gas plug so I could work up my reloads to factory specs.

It is the chambering. According to the Hornady Reloading Data Handbook the C.O.A.L. for 168 and 165 grain bullets is 3.240. For other 30-06 Springfield caliber reloads the C.O.A.L. for the same bullets is 3.210 and 3.220.

It would seem the obvious answer would be to use a C.O.A.L. of 3.210. However, the shorter length in the M1 doesn't feed consistently as with the longer C.O.A.L.

Extending the C.O.A.L. beyond 3.215 is too long to function in my Mossberg bolt gun. ( meaning either I have to force the bolt to close or eject the cartridge because the bolt will not close.)

The maximum C.O.A.L. for my T/C Encore is 3.216. Any longer and the Encore will not want to close properly.

Could I just ream the chambers to be the same? Yes.

But at this time not an option.
Nor do I want to have a divided shelf of 2 or 3 different 30-06 C.O.A.Ls. Whereas I inadvertently pick up the wrong box(es) drive to the range, or even worse to a hunting area, and discover I picked up the wrong ammo. (which has happened on a hunting trip,...with a different set of firearms,....same circumstances.....I do not want to repeat this respectively costly stupid mistake.)

Note: These 3 rifles are off the shelf and are super accurate. Like 5 shots in a quarter dollar accurate at 100 yards.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Unless all chambers are identical, (not likely) you'll open a can of worms for all three. Brass used in one rifle, even after sizing, will sometimes not fit another rifle. As others have posted, separate loads for each rifle and color code or otherwise mark them.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hogpatrol,

With all due respect, as I respect your experience and knowledge.

Respectfully, I know of the potential can of worms I am opening. Perhaps maybe someone will make a suggestion I have not thought of. ( So I Hope)

I am discussing, that is my original OP is in regard to my 30-06 rifles. However, this also transitions over to handguns ( ah--/shotguns, other firearms), and in the event, should it (hopefully never) happen, to an emergency/life or death, situations/ scenarios.

The hypotheticals run rampant from most obscure plausible scenarios to most obscure stupid fantasies.

Real World: (You have planned months/years)

The hunt you have planned, and paid for, over the years has now paid off, hundreds maybe thousands of dollars later the absolute dream has come true and you have your wife's unconditional blessings. You are in proverbial heaven, excitement and glory of a dream once thought of, as never happening has come true;

Your are the frog/toad who has been kissed by a princess and you are now a prince who has been returned to his glorious wealth and status.

(OOOPPPPS, that last paragraph was because you having such an adorable, understanding and gracious wife. I hope?!.)

Ok. Worse case scenario: it's dark, pitch black, I grab one of the 30 -06's, grab a box of shells off the third shelf, and have to move while loading,...

.OOOPPPPS,***&@@@###$$$%%%%!!!!!@@@@%$$%%$%%......WRONG ammo.....BANG!!!! from the bad guy's gun.....I'm dead......Because I F**king grabbed the wrong box of ammo!!!
$%^&%%&(%^^^%!!!. OR the wife, AND/OR the kids, AND/OR the girlfriend, AND/OR my hunting buddy(ies).... (I am responsible for not just Killing my own self, but my family, friends, hunting buddies, because I grabbed the wrong $^&&%$#$^^^$@@@$% ammo.)

All my 12 gauge shotguns are chambered for 2-3/4, 3, & 3-1/2 inch shells. (DA.... UH.. NO BRAINER!!!)

Majority of my handguns, revolvers!: (357 and 44 magnums, specific) are magnums, thus they chamber ALL specials, +P, and magnum loads.

Fewer mistakes in grabbing any wrong cartridges, better proficiency, better prepared!

For the untrained novice better chance of survival.

Thereby not only do I open the proverbial can of worms, I also look for and hope to find suggestions I have not thought of.

 

[Ridge Runner]

With loads of the same cartridge for different rifles I make certain the cases are kept separate and each rifle has it's own loads. the easiest way that I have found is to sort by head stamp. For example, five 30-06s would have military FA, LC, Fed, RP & Win. They would each have their own box and treated just as if they were totally different cartridges.

If I was competition shooting I would agree. But I no longer shoot competition, (lucky for you youngsters ()!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Hogpatrol,

With all due respect, as I respect your experience and knowledge.

Respectfully, I know of the potential can of worms I am opening. Perhaps maybe someone will make a suggestion I have not thought of. ( So I Hope)

I am discussing, that is my original OP is in regard to my 30-06 rifles. However, this also transitions over to handguns ( ah--/shotguns, other firearms), and in the event, should it (hopefully never) happen, to an emergency/life or death, situations/ scenarios.

The hypotheticals run rampant from most obscure plausible scenarios to most obscure stupid fantasies.

Real World: (You have planned months/years)

The hunt you have planned, and paid for, over the years has now paid off, hundreds maybe thousands of dollars later the absolute dream has come true and you have your wife's unconditional blessings. You are in proverbial heaven, excitement and glory of a dream once thought of, as never happening has come true;

Your are the frog/toad who has been kissed by a princess and you are now a prince who has been returned to his glorious wealth and status.

(OOOPPPPS, that last paragraph was because you having such an adorable, understanding and gracious wife. I hope?!.)

Ok. Worse case scenario: it's dark, pitch black, I grab one of the 30 -06's, grab a box of shells off the third shelf, and have to move while loading,...

.OOOPPPPS,***&@@@###$$$%%%%!!!!!@@@@%$$%%$%%......WRONG ammo.....BANG!!!! from the bad guy's gun.....I'm dead......Because I F**king grabbed the wrong box of ammo!!!
$%^&%%&(%^^^%!!!. OR the wife, AND/OR the kids, AND/OR the girlfriend, AND/OR my hunting buddy(ies).... (I am responsible for not just Killing my own self, but my family, friends, hunting buddies, because I grabbed the wrong $^&&%$#$^^^$@@@$% ammo.)

All my 12 gauge shotguns are chambered for 2-3/4, 3, & 3-1/2 inch shells. (DA.... UH.. NO BRAINER!!!)

Majority of my handguns, revolvers!: (357 and 44 magnums, specific) are magnums, thus they chamber ALL specials, +P, and magnum loads.

Fewer mistakes in grabbing any wrong cartridges, better proficiency, better prepared!

For the untrained novice better chance of survival.

Thereby not only do I open the proverbial can of worms, I also look for and hope to find suggestions I have not thought of.

In this case, you would be better served with factory loaded ammo that you find works in all three rifles. If it were me, I'd buy two twenty round boxes each, different brands, of the bullet weight desired and head to the range. In the long run, t'd probably be a lot cheaper too. This is the protocol I use for rifles I chamber for friends that don't reload.

 

[Patrik D]

Use the garand as a collectible and hang it on the wall...

Then load for only two rifles. Hunt with the one shooting best groups and have the other one as a backup if shit happens to the first rifle.

 

[Johnny reb]

I just write rifle info on my mtm cases. I also write all data down and put in the cases.

 

[AZDAVE]

Unless all three chamber were cut with the exact same reamer you WILL have differences between rifles.

Understand you requirements, but in reality you have a couple options load for the M1 and accept what it will do in the others. If it won't work in the others due to OAL sell that rifle and either buy one that will feed the M1 ammo or a different caliber so as not to cause the problems in you worst case stated above.

The other is to only shoot the rifle you plan on hunting with for an extended time before you hunt and store the other two in a different safe/location so you always have the correct ammo for worst case.

Last option is pick the one you like best, shoot it a lot and sell the other two.

I load for 3 different 7 REM MAGs and each has loads developed for them with very separate boxes. and are I am very deliberate in my planning when I take any one of them out to shoot.

also comparing your shotguns and pistols straight walled rounds with much more generous tolerances to work in most any other shotgun/pistol vs rifles with bottle necked cases will just make you unhappy.

 

[shootist~]

Load a different bullet for the bolt guns VS the M1 - something you can tell apart at a glance.

Or - as @AZDAVE says - use different packaging materials for the different rifles.

I have a SCAR17 (true 7.62x51 chamber) that uses the same exact reload as a 308 Bolt Gun - except the full sized (if 7.62 fired) brass won't chamber in the 308. I'm surprised you don't have the same problem.

The 7.62 loads are clearly marked and go in a different range bag and/or ammo cans than the .308 fired and reloaded ammo. Fired cases go into their respective Zip-Lok bags and are processed accordingly.

As an off topic side note, my 7.62x51 and 308W rifles shoot surplus Aussie F4 Ball (AFF91) really well. And I still have a good supply. As a result I have s lifetime supply of excellent 7.62/308 boxer primed brass. (Most other years are berdan primed, btw).

A group of us from my gun club bought the ADI surplused F4 Ball by the pallet load about 20 years ago. Apologies to my Aussie friends as this is a sore spot for them - since it was all shipped out of country.