I need help with mounts of heym 88B safari

[rookhawk]

But as you said, I am new to the subject of express and it could be that the best thing I could do is buy a scope with a straight tube, for example leica 1-4x24

Thank you all for your sincere help.

@homeless

Yes, you could buy a 1-4x24 Leica. They make an entry-level model for 1000 euros in 1-6x24 too. I’d recommend the new Swarovski or Schmidt & Bender in 1-8x24mm.

To point out what @Tanks said above, the addition of a scope and scope mounts will also alter your regulation. So too will changing length of pull.

So the order of operations are as follows:

1.) Expert fits you for your gun, changing the length of recoil pad or merely changing its weight. Make sure you like the recoil pad before you do anything else. Changing brands of recoil pad also effects regulation. Your pad, like mine, is old and very hard on these older Heyms so sort fit and pad out first.

2.) Expert fits scope mounts to the quarter rib, permenantly altering the gun. Expert creates rings for the pivot mounts of the correct height for a straight tube scope, at correct eye relief, for that specific scope at your specific gun’s length of pull.

3.) Gun is re-regulated potentially. It may just be adjusting powder of the loads by half to one grain more or less, it may require the regulating wedge to be adjusted on the gun.

While you are at it, I recommend the same qualified expert mill a groove into both sides of your 470 quarter rib to allow the attachment of a reflex sight on that gun. You may not want one on there now, but in the future you may wish to hunt elephant or buffalo where you need a reflex sight. That is an inexpensive milling operation, far, far less cost than installing pivot mounts.

 

[Tanks]

...

To point out what @Tanks said above, the addition of a scope and scope mounts will also alter your regulation. So too will changing length of pull.

So the order of operations are as follows:

1.) Expert fits you for your gun, changing the length of recoil pad or merely changing its weight. Make sure you like the recoil pad before you do anything else. Changing brands of recoil pad also effects regulation....

I have not found changing LOP or type of recoil pads to modify the regulation. At least not on my Heym 88B .500 NE. I went from a standard recoil pad to leather wrapped one (1" Pachmeyer underneath) to increase LOP by 0.5".

 

[rookhawk]

I have not found changing LOP or type of recoil pads to modify the regulation. At least not on my Heym 88B .500 NE. I went from a standard recoil pad to leather wrapped one (1" Pachmeyer underneath) to increase LOP by 0.5".

View attachment 456241

Hi @Tanks I’m reporting the legends of old that have been repeated by modern barrel mechanics you and I both know and trust.

No one has offered an explanation for “why” it could change regulation so my working theory is the following:

While it is unlikely that the weight of recoil pads will vary enough to make a profound difference in recoil velocity or momentum, the difference between say a Decelerator and a Silvers pad is profound. The yielding of the former would certainly alter muzzle rise as compared to the hard as a rock latter. I suspect this is the primary reason for regulation change from swapping pads.

I’ll find out soon enough. I just swapped the OEM original Pachmayr from my heym that was getting rather stiff and dry rotting and replaced it with a new Pachmayr decelerator. Same size, but way, way softer. Let’s see if that changes anything when I go back out to the range to shoot it again.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

There may be one other option and that is to use a very light scope so it might be able to mount with simple claw mounts and not damage the rib, and also not upset the regulation much. I have a little Leupold tactical type scope on my Marlin, it is 1.5-5x20, has a green dot and a straight tube. It only weighs 270 grams. There may be one even smaller and lighter than this, does anyone know? Note you could mount this scope even lower than I did.

I have not found changing LOP or type of recoil pads to modify the regulation. At least not on my Heym 88B .500 NE. I went from a standard recoil pad to leather wrapped one (1" Pachmeyer underneath) to increase LOP by 0.5".

View attachment 456241

beautiful.

 

[rookhawk]

There may be one other option and that is to use a very light scope so it might be able to mount with simple claw mounts and not damage the rib, and also not upset the regulation much. I have a little Leupold tactical type scope on my Marlin, it is 1.5-5x20, has a green dot and a straight tube. It only weighs 270 grams. There may be one even smaller and lighter than this, does anyone know? Note you could mount this scope even lower than I did.

beautiful.

You’re potentially correct, @Kevin Peacocke . At least in America.

Poor man’s double rifle arrangement is this: You get talley QD rings. An expert mills a notch for them in the top of the rib for the correct depth to have them sit parallel / level. You then bill a groove on both sides of the ribs to handle it. You then select a reasonably lightweight scope like the Swaro 1-4x24 Habicht.

That’s a $500 job, including rings. All provided you can get JJ or another well qualified smith to agree to the work and that the rib is wide and deep enough to accomodate the Talleys.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

With the resurgence of popularity of double rifles maybe one of the scope manufacturers will come up with a really small and lightweight multiplier that can attach to the same single mount as the little reflex red dots.

 

[homeless]

The truth is that I am reading carefully and I am not surprised...

Like the simple fact of changing the butt plate of the stock can vary the point of impact, or that a scope weighs 300gr or 500gr.... Or that it is a x24 or a x32. . What else will give???

Without a scope at 25 meters there is a 5 centimeter difference, at 80 meters the 2 shots will hit the same point and at 140 meters the distance will be 6 centimeters again but one crossed. Point. You put the sight you want at 0 with the right barrel at those 140 meters and you know that the left barrel will shoot 6 centimeters to the right already crossed..... I mean, right???

It would have to be that simple regardless of the sight you put on it... Because I'm never going to let go of the barrels...

What am I wrong???

Because in a bolt rifle you mount the mounts that you like the most, put the scope that you like the most and adjust the cross of the reticle to where the rifle shoots at 150m for example....

You are never going to hit the barrel so that it shoots where the crosshair points, but you move the crosshair to where the barrel shoots....

I'm missing something, sorry

I just wanted to find some mounts that would fit in the soloist of a heym 88b but I see that it is not like in a bolt rifle.....

Mind you, I'm not blaming you.... My head is just not capable of assimilating the complexity of putting simple mounts on a rifle... Yes, it's a double.... But not the apollo XI .....

 

[rookhawk]

@homeless it is more like the Apollo XI than a bolt rifle. The weight of the gun changing can create a change of recoil velocity, momentum, and muzzle jump. If this changes the location of the barrels by a few thousandths of an inch by the point the bullet leaves the muzzle, it may be 10cm at 50 meters. Worse yet, it may be that one barrel is 10cm high and right of the other shot. Regulation of double rifles is witchcraft and there is a reason here in the States we mention the same 5 gunsmiths as being the only ones qualified out of 330 million people in our population. There‘s a reason there is a 6 month to 2 year wait to get in queue for such work as well.

And of course, if you put a heavy scope on the gun it can very likely just sheer the quarter rib right off the gun which will cause a 4000 euro repair bill.

What you do not know will cause you much grief as it has for all of us that have learned about double guns the very hard way. There is a reason double rifle scope mounts and installation can cost you 3000-4000 euros whereas magazine rifle mounts including installation can be less than 50 euros. One is so easy a child can do it, the other requires a level of skill, measuring devices, mills, and parts that put you into rarified air.

I understand how it is done, but I’m $15,000 in machinery and gauges short of being able to do it myself. No one in my State, home to the third largest city in America can do it over here. I have to send my guns 1000 miles away for such services.

If you tell us which country you reside in we may be able to refer you to a qualified company that can do a proper job of this.

 

[homeless]

Eibar (Spain)

AYA, Maguregui, victor Sarasqueta........

The cradle of handcrafted double rifles in the world

 

[rookhawk]

Great town to live in and wonderful people the basques.

I’m sure someone in your town knows how to do it. For a while there was an out worker making double rifles on behalf of Arrieta that was competent. I do not know the names of the outworkers, but there were a handful that were brought into the companies to help complete barrels and regulation on their occasional double rifle orders.

I’d start with a phone call to Aguirre Y Aranzabal or Arrizabalaga.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Here is my experience with scoping a double. Might be of help to someone.

I’ve installed a railed version of 1-4x24 Leica Visus on my 9.3x74R DR. The rifle had Recknagel basis factory installed so it was simply a matter of fitting swing mounts to them. Or so I thought. The reason I wanted the scope on my double was a legal requirement for an optical sight for boar hunting at night. However, I also wanted to continue using the rifle scope less during the day. Swing mounts allow for the scope to come off easily so that should have been that.

However, the scope affected the regulation. And so I have re-regulated the rifle with the scope, a relatively easy job by myself on my particular rifle(K-gun under 375 cal).

However, while accurate with the scope the shots would spread apart without it. I suppose it would have been tolerable for hunting at distances up to 50m but I found it unacceptable and it had bothered me greatly. Therefore I tried to understand the reason it was happening and arrived at the conclusion that extra weight of the scope was slowing the recoil down somewhat. I figured higher velocity would shorten barrel timing and possibly help the situation. I swapped powders gaining 100fps with the same pressure and bingo! Works flawless now, regulates with and without the scope.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

This is that little scope on my Marlin. 9 ounces as I said.

 

[homeless]

This is the correct catalogue.....

https://heym-fabrik.de/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/HeymPreislisteKombinierteEndverbraucher.pdf

In the page 24 there are some reference...

ZEAW and ZSME......

This reference are from 89B but i supose that it's same from 88B

I would like ZSEM001, claw type without rail....

It's rigth???

 

[homeless]

Finally the chosen gunsmith is Parkemy.....

And my leica is not much bigger than a 1-4x24 burris, only 1 or 2 centimeters, and I would say it weighs less than another 1-6x24 scope

Checked.