Just Back from South Africa and want to invest

[Nfldbullet]

Hey Guys

Just back from south africa it was the most amazing experience ever. ended up taking more aniamls that were on my list i guess this is the normal.haha
After the long flight home got to thinking and i have a chance to invest in some captive breeding. It was my idea and my friend had the land and staff. I look at it like playing the stock market and can see that it could take many years without a return in the investment. i had some money put away just for something like this.
My questions for all experts in todays market what would you invest in would it be plains game? big game? animals like sable or buffalo? If you had say 1 million Rand to invest what would be the plan of attack? how many numbers would you start off with and what auctions would be best to start? i have tonnes of questions in this area. If anyone is in this line or been there done that i would love to get in contact with you. If anyone is really interested and wants to get involved might be something we can talk about if they have the experience.

Sorry for all the questions been searching online theres not much info on where to start.

Thanks

nfldbullets

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Welcome to AH first of all, good to have you! The best advice I can give you for now, is to put this thought out of your head for a few weeks. Let the excitement from your experience fade a bit before jumping into such an investment. I don't say this to be a jerk and throw a wet blanket on your idea, but there a number of things you need to consider. A few of those:

1. Captive bred game farms is a market that is fairly well penetrated right now. This has shown in the falling prices of various species over the past few years, in particular sable.

2. You're investing in livestock, perhaps you've done this before, but then maybe you haven't. You could be standing at the fence rail looking at this beast so noble so healthy so beautiful. The next moment it's lying on the ground dead as a door nail for no apparent reason.

3. While the political situation in South Africa has been one of the more stable in comparison to other countries, it has been deteriorating over the past few with Jacob Zuma seeming to take a position more like Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe. Mugabe has been anything but friendly to land ownership to anyone white nor to anyone not affiliated with him even if they are black.

4. Presuming once again you're not from RSA, who would run this farm for you? Is this someone you can trust?

Those are the first things I can think of. I'm sure others will provide more.

 

[BRICKBURN]

"The recent and sudden ouster of South Africa's respected finance minister, Pravin Gordhan – coupled with rising political instability that may yet force President Jacob Zuma from office prematurely – have sent the country's risk premiums soaring."
JUNK STATUS

"President Jacob Zuma has called on parliament to change South Africa’s constitution to allow the expropriation of white owned land without compensation."
JABBER FROM THE GUY TRYING TO KEEP HIS FLUFFY POSITION.


I'd suggest Vegas.
Pick one number for a nice 2.63% chance to win. It pays out 35 times though.

 

[CAustin]

Welcome to AH sir!

Don't do it! Don't do it!
For all the reasons listed above by Phil and many many more that could be listed!

 

[Nfldbullet]

hey again

thanks for your thoughts

1. Captive bred game farms is a market that is fairly well penetrated right now. This has shown in the falling prices of various species over the past few years, in particular sable.

In my eyes this would be a great time to get in market why would you want to get in any market at peak prices? Its nothing i am jumping at just want to see ppl thoughts.

2. You're investing in livestock, perhaps you've done this before, but then maybe you haven't. You could be standing at the fence rail looking at this beast so noble so healthy so beautiful. The next moment it's lying on the ground dead as a door nail for no apparent reason.

I have dealings in this field and know the risk that come into play and got to be willing to take that risk if i go into the investment.

3. While the political situation in South Africa has been one of the more stable in comparison to other countries, it has been deteriorating over the past few with Jacob Zuma seeming to take a position more like Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe. Mugabe has been anything but friendly to land ownership to anyone white nor to anyone not affiliated with him even if they are black.

This is one thing i am paying close attention to and the manger reason i will be waiting to see what happens there

4. Presuming once again you're not from RSA, who would run this farm for you? Is this someone you can trust?

I have a partner that owns a ranch down there and would be someone i trust 100%. Also alot of experience in the field

Blackburn thanks for your comments i spend enough time gambling now and if i want a edge i will stick to my game of poker. I am looking at this like the stock market and prepared to wait and see it grow in 8 years. If i wanted that kind of return i would take the 100k and let it stay in a intrest back account. whats the fun in that

Caustin sounds like you have more info in the field would love to hear more

My big question here is if someone with knowledge in the field and know todays market what side of the market would you invest plains game/ bigger game? how would you start with which animals and numbers female / males? which auctions you recommend in SA? would you sell in future for trophy hunting or put back in auctions? how much return would you expect in 8 years ? knowing 8years anything could happen

thanks again

 

[rinehart0050]

1. Captive bred game farms is a market that is fairly well penetrated right now. This has shown in the falling prices of various species over the past few years, in particular sable.

In my eyes this would be a great time to get in market why would you want to get in any market at peak prices? Its nothing i am jumping at just want to see ppl thoughts.

The market is down, but its not going to come back up. I speak from the prospective of a hunter, vs. someone in the industry, but I don't see the prices coming up anytime soon.

The price of RSA sable will not jump back up to $9000 for a hunt- it will stay down around $4500, maybe even go lower- who knows (I could easily see them reach nyala, kudu pricing).

Regarding DG, I wouldn't invest in lion right now. As sad as it is, I think USFWS destroyed that market. A lion hunt that a few years ago would cost $30k+ can now be had for less than $10k. All non-US hunters should be getting their lions now, while they're still available.

The color game is bottoming out too. I think we just had an offer to hunt golden wildebeest for $5000.

Bottom line, now is a great time to be a hunter headed to RSA. You'll be getting some of the best deals in the history of hunting.

 

[enysse]

I would not get in the game breeding business. I don't blame a resident from RSA doing it, because they live there and have feet on the ground. They know all the players and what do most of time so they don't get skinned alive so to speak but as a USA citizen unless I had money to burn........Don't do it!!!

I much happier and sleep more comfortably handing my money every year when I want to go hunting in Africa.

 

[billc]

If your going to take the leap and just do it and not worry about the risk at all. I would say plains game and the standard stuff most guys hunt. The sable market is down and well as buff right now. Kudu,eland ,nyala, impala, wildebeest and such always sell. The color game is all but over also with golden wildebeest that once sold for 50,000.00 dollars are down to 7500 or. same with black impala.

If you take the risk just make sure you can trust the guy as going once and saying here is 300,000 or so is not to smart most would say. If it works it can be worth it.

 

[enysse]

I don't think sable will ever be priced like nyala....but that is me. I'd rather hunt sable than nyala most days of the week.

 

[wipartimer]

I have absolutely zero knowledge on this field other than my American farming experience on my younger days, but curious, if you don't mind my posing another question. What about rhino? I understand that just the logistics of starting a herd and then keeping them alive would be a night mare, but would that be a species that could ever offer a return, IF the poaching industry could be manage

 

[kathy]

Welcome to A.H. Forrest

 

[billc]

I have absolutely zero knowledge on this field other than my American farming experience on my younger days, but curious, if you don't mind my posing another question. What about rhino? I understand that just the logistics of starting a herd and then keeping them alive would be a night mare, but would that be a species that could ever offer a return, IF the poaching industry could be manage

It is another market that really bottomed out. To risky keeping them at one place to long so allows moving them. I think with needing to cut the horns off it hurt them as far as the hunting market as guys hunting want the horn. My first trip over rhino hunts were 50,000 to 75,000 but you see them now for rhino with horns that have been cut for 28,000 to 35,000.

 

[Dr Ray]

Hey Guys

Just back from south africa it was the most amazing experience ever. ended up taking more aniamls that were on my list i guess this is the normal.haha
After the long flight home got to thinking and i have a chance to invest in some captive breeding. It was my idea and my friend had the land and staff. I look at it like playing the stock market and can see that it could take many years without a return in the investment. i had some money put away just for something like this.
My questions for all experts in todays market what would you invest in would it be plains game? big game? animals like sable or buffalo? If you had say 1 million Rand to invest what would be the plan of attack? how many numbers would you start off with and what auctions would be best to start? i have tonnes of questions in this area. If anyone is in this line or been there done that i would love to get in contact with you. If anyone is really interested and wants to get involved might be something we can talk about if they have the experience.

Sorry for all the questions been searching online theres not much info on where to start.

Thanks

nfldbullets

Investing isn't a problem. Try running from abroad AND try getting money out.

 

[mrpoindexter]

^^^

Getting in is easy. Getting out is difficult. The Art of War (Sun Tzu) says it is unwise to attack when it is easy to enter and hard to leave and you do not have an advantage.

Do you have an advantage over those who are already entrenched in the market? If not, why would you want to enter into a competitive market against them when it is difficult to exit that market?

I had the same feelings after my first safari. I researched ranches and found one I really, really wanted. I still want the ranch. But I also realize a few things.

1. I am not going to want to hunt the same ranch and the same group of animals every time I go there. I am going to want to see the rest of Africa and hunt animals I cannot get in Limpopo.
2. The money I would spend on buying a ranch would cover a lifetime of hunting, which is where I am getting the enjoyment.
3. Owning a ranch there would require oversight. That alone would turn a hobby into a job. I already have a job and need my hobby. I don't want to trade my hobby for a second job.
4. Politics is driven by demographics and that does not bode well for RSA in the future - at least as far as it matters for white landowners.

If you are still set on it, look at leasing ground. If that isn't appealing, ask yourself if you really think land values for white foreign nationals will appreciate over time and that you will be missing out on that land appreciation. If not, then what is your benefit of owning the land?

 

[Gemsbok Gangsta]

I believe I saw an add for a $3500.00 Sable hunt....

 

[enysse]

I believe I saw an add for a $3500.00 Sable hunt....

Be careful of those hunts, some are more fair chase than others.

 

[siml]

SA is at a real interesting point at present, my best advice would be to wait 2 years and see what happens politically.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I'm reminded of the funny sign that states:

How to retire in South Africa on 1 million USD.
1. Move to South Africa
2. Bring 2 million USD

Here's a link to an interesting report on game farming in RSA. It's been posted on here before and several folks have commented on some of the inaccuracies.
http://www.myewa.org/pdf/WRSA-EWA-Presentation.pdf

 

[rookhawk]

Thread pivot here:

Right idea, wrong place.

Look at Texas and what they've done right. There are tens of thousands of extinct in the wild scimitar oryx available to be hunted at cheap prices. Some day, when stability returns to North Africa, Texans will reintroduce an extinct animal. That is remarkable.

What is also remarkable, and a shame, is common species from Africa that breed like rabbits are not abundant or affordable in Texas. Impala, springbok, duiker, bushbuck and many others would do very well.

If you want to import and cultivate seed stock you will insure Hunting access to these animals long after the African areas are no longer huntable.

African game is regulated in Texas quite fairly and you have control knowing Texas is a safe place to enter contracts.

 

[gillettehunter]

I really like Rookhawks last reply. You can safely invest in Texas and know your not going to have your property taken by the Government. Great Idea! Bruce