Lancaster and paradox - but not a shotgun

[Vashper]

There are restrictions on rifled weapons in our country. you can get The license for the rifle only after 5 years of ownership of the shotgun and in the presence of a hunting ticket. This rule is without exception, and affects at GRU colonel too.
But there is another rule - oval drilling of Lancaster and Paradox are considered shotguns. This led to an interesting phenomenon - the new complex weapons+cartridge. Now actively produced and in great demand so-called "shotguns", converted from SKS, AK, Mosin carbines for new cartridges. It." 366TKM" (with in reality it is not 366, but 375 or 376) and "9.6 Lancaster" (bullet, too, not 9.6, and 10.3 mm). The first cartridge - with a brass AK-47, the second-with a brass Mosin's rifle. Guns for them has an oval drill type Lancaster or Paradox-smooth barrel with a threaded portion at the beginning or end of the barrel. Although the new weapon was first severely criticized, it proved to have good qualities. for example, Simonov in the caliber .366TKM was more accurate than the original.
A friend of mine from AKMoid 9.6 Lan by one shot put in the place the moose for 200 m - a very good result. Of course, these cartridges have low initial speed and "mortar" trajectory, but they are fully suitable for forest hunting. What is important for our conditions-the reloading of "smoothbore" cartridges was always allowed,and the people could experiment with these calibers. Hard to say what will happen next, because this year reloading rifle cartridges finally allowed (the so-called "Reznik Law" January 16). But, on the other hand, the 5-year rule has not been canceled, and the prospects for this are not visible, so young people are likely to become adherents of new calibers. Incidentally. ,366ТКМ is a good donor of cheap bullets 375 caliber (13 and 15 gram) and the owners are quietly using this useful capacity.
And the main - they may be used in rifles.

 

[Shootist43]

Vashper, has anyone considered running a sabot through a rifled choke in a shotgun? We use sabots in Black Powder rifles and they are quite capable of extending normal ranges.

 

[Vashper]

What sabot? Something like that ?

or cast sabot?

Generally speaking, due to restrictions on rifles, the guys played a lot with paradox bore and various bullets. The container bullets were also auditioned and, as a rule, accuracy is increased. I remember the recommendation that the twist should not be steeper than 35."
I haven't used the paradox myself, but I can ask.

 

[flatwater bill]

Vashper..........I had no idea anyone was still experimenting with either of these. Lancaster's "rifled smoothbore" I have seen used only with bullets, and never with shot.....but H&H's Paradox shot well with either. I suppose where you are at, either method would prevent the AK or Mosin from being used with original ammo.....probably one of the main reasons for your laws. Still, an original first year Paradox from 1885 will kill deer at 100 yards.....so maybe you don't really need much improvement on the original designs...........FWB

 

[Red Leg]

I have a WWI era William Evans with which I have taken warthog and a pile of sand grouse from the same waterhole on the same afternoon. Unbelievably accurate to 100 meters and perfect modified patterns with 1 1/8 ounces of no. 6 shot. Incredible technology and craftsmanship.

William Evans Paradox 12 bore

• Red Leg
• Feb 12, 2018
• 2

Your mention of the GRU Colonel made me smile. Back in the mid-eighties I was seconded to DIA for a tour and had a memorable experience for several weeks playing hide and seek with my GRU counterparts in Sanaa, Yemen. It was the wild west in those days. And yet, in a lot of ways, things were far more civilized then. If he is a friend, please tell him a former adversary says За здоровье!

 

[Vashper]

Vashper..........I had no idea anyone was still experimenting with either of these. Lancaster's "rifled smoothbore" I have seen used only with bullets, and never with shot.....but H&H's Paradox shot well with either. I suppose where you are at, either method would prevent the AK or Mosin from being used with original ammo.....probably one of the main reasons for your laws. Still, an original first year Paradox from 1885 will kill deer at 100 yards.....so maybe you don't really need much improvement on the original designs...........FWB

There are other ways to limit the use of Mosin - not to sell them to the population from army warehouses. And they are sold and quite popular, I have such a there is already long. I think it's easier - manufacturers have found a hole in the law and used it to revive the market at the expense of young people who do not have the right to rifles. Previously, the same manufacturers experimented with Lancaster barrels in the 20th caliber (12th does not fit into the standard pad of their guns IZH-27, Lancaster has thicker walls of barrel). These rifles were released with the shot shoot targets.
Man investigate one of the first Lancaster (in Russian, you may see pics) http://guns.allzip.org/topic/60/99400.html

Now other technologies than 100 years ago. You can make a profile of the barrel either - though oval, though star, though Pamela Anderson.

 

[Vashper]

I have a WWI era William Evans with which I have taken warthog and a pile of sand grouse from the same waterhole on the same afternoon. Unbelievably accurate to 100 meters and perfect modified patterns with 1 1/8 ounces of no. 6 shot. Incredible technology and craftsmanship.

William Evans Paradox 12 bore

• Red Leg
• Feb 12, 2018
• 2

Your mention of the GRU Colonel made me smile. Back in the mid-eighties I was seconded to DIA for a tour and had a memorable experience for several weeks playing hide and seek with my GRU counterparts in Sanaa, Yemen. It was the wild west in those days. And yet, in a lot of ways, things were far more civilized then. If he is a friend, please tell him a former adversary says За здоровье!

It's perfect. Modern are others. I would't buy, for example, this

 

[flatwater bill]

Thanks, Vashper...............I didn't understand all of the posts, but the pictures tell a story. Polygonal, DGA, Metford, Lancaster, were all methods of stabilizing a conical bullet without the usual sharp cut lands and grooves. Am uncertain about "the Pamela Anderson" you describe, but suspect it is a weight forward design. In this day of screw in shotgun chokes, it would seem much easier to get a 100-120 meter gun.........cut ratchet rifleing into a full choke, be sure the finished product mikes out about Imp cyl, and follow Holland's formula for bullets clearly described in Baker and Lake's book, "Paradox". Since short chunky bullets stabilize more easily than long light bullets, follow their recipe for 48 grams or so........and if you are not interested in using shot in the shotgun anymore, start with a cheap single, put in a short rifled insert ahead of the muzzle for say 40 cm.............no one will ever know what you've done...........and with sabots you may get a 150 meter + gun....................anyway, sounds like a fun project.................if your goal is to shoot deer and elk in the forest, that's one thing. If your goal is to find a new use for a Mosin or AK, that is different.............FWB

 

[Shootist43]

What sabot? Something like that ?
View attachment 265469

Yes, I was referring to a modern bullet in a plastic sleeve. The vast majority of new shotguns have screw in chokes that run the full gamut of options from Turkey, Full, Modified and Improved including a rifled option. A number of manufacturers offer fully rifled barrels for shotguns but I don't know if that is an option for you. Have you looked at these? https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...h-loadable-brass-shotshells-12-gauge?a=518023

There might be something similar available to you.