Politics

[Doug Hamilton]

incorrect.

from NYs own records…

[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]/[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]/ny-received-more-washington-it-sent-due-federal-relief#:~:text=In%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Federal%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Fiscal%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Year%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]](FFY,balance%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]of%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]payments%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]of%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]%%C[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji6]." class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.osc.ny.gov/press/releases/[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]/[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]/ny-received-more-washington-it-sent-due-federal-relief#:~:text=In%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Federal%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Fiscal%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]Year%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]](FFY,balance%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]of%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]payments%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]of%[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]%%C[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji6].

???

 

[Red Leg]

On the contrary, I think God (that’s the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) cares quite a bit about how we interpret Scripture [that’s the Old & New Testaments of the Holy Bible, excluding the apocrypha (along with all their false teachings)] that the Catholics accept. The fact that He gave us His Word which is so explicit about what He wants us to believe and how to live and (wholly) sufficient to gain understanding on any subject proves how much He cares.

The Calvinists and the Catholics don’t believe in the correct doctrine of salvation. Both the Catholic and the Calvinist beliefs on the topic are antithetical to what Scripture says and wholly inconsistent with the nature of God presented in Scripture. Their beliefs are founded on twisting of Scripture and uninspired canon. If you don’t even have the doctrine of salvation, which is the entry point to the Christian faith, correct then how do you proceed any further? At the time Martin Luther enlightened many (freeing them from the corrupted Catholic Church), John Calvin came to mislead many.

Jesus Christ (the Christ of the Scriptures) is the only way to God. The Jews have largely rejected Him. That said there are many who have been, are being and will be saved. For God’s chosen people His promises will be kept.

As for Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and all the other false religions of the world see the first sentence of my previous paragraph. There is no hope in any other and no other source for salvation.

On the subject of the many denominations of Christianity, some schisms initially occurred over secondary issues but it looks like many are now truly disqualifying themselves as they increasingly adopt false teachings.

True Christianity is by nature narrow and exclusionary (necessarily so and according to Scripture). Many will see those as negative connotations but they are not and I would simply tell them to study and decide for themselves whether my claims are true or not.

I have no problem that you believe in that way. I also do not have the remotest interest in debating it because it works for you and any conclusions are based purely on faith - not fact. Among those willing to actually discuss the topic, I do find a certain conceit in the belief that man can decide what is true and what is false with respect to understanding God - particularly if using a sole source, the final form of which was determined by committee of humans. Studying a bit about the Council of Nicaea is a good place to start.

I would urge you to also study the Koran a bit. Muslims, assuming they aren't of the current martyrdom variety, actually believe Islam, Christianity (in all its forms), and Judaism are of the same family - People of The Book. It was a notion that created remarkably tolerant societies for a few hundred years in places like Granada, Baghdad, and Cordoba.

Again, I truly don't wish to debate the undebatable, but I would simply suggest, should we experience an afterlife which retains some consciousness of this one, evangelicals will likely be stunned by their mess mates.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I think the operative word here is "think". Every religion and its offshoots interpret the dogma according the their own beliefs, prejudices and thoughts and "think" their interpretation is the true Word.

Hence, the millions of lives lost in history in wars fought in the name of religion even onto today.

Monty Python even made a satiric movie named "Life of Brian" about this, best scene is below:

Let correct and say “I know”.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I have no problem that you believe in that way. I also do not have the remotest interest in debating it because it works for you and any conclusions are based purely on faith - not fact. Among those willing to actually discuss the topic, I do find a certain conceit in the belief that man can decide what is true and what is false with respect to understanding God - particularly if using a sole source, the final form of which was determined by committee of humans. Studying a bit about the Council of Nicaea is a good place to start.

I would urge you to also study the Koran a bit. Muslims, assuming they aren't of the current martyrdom variety, actually believe Islam, Christianity (in all its forms), and Judaism are of the same family - People of The Book. It was a notion that created remarkably tolerant societies for a few hundred years in places like Granada, Baghdad, and Cordoba.

Again, I truly don't wish to debate the undebatable, but I would simply suggest, should we experience an afterlife which retains some consciousness of this one, evangelicals will likely be stunned by their mess mates.

I’m aware of the Islamic concept of the “People of the Book”. Paying jizya and second class citizenship probably helped them be more tolerant.. That said, one cannot reject/deny Christ and make it to Heaven. Period. There won’t be any true Muslims there.. It seems you think otherwise? I’m curious where you can back that up in Scripture?

Also, we all know how tolerant Islam is. Renowned throughout the world since its founding as a truly eclectic and peaceful religion..

The council of Trent is interesting too, when the Catholics formally chose false teachings over their supposed Savior.

There’s more than a little conceit in questioning the validity of the final form of Scripture when men have spent thousands upon thousands of hours studying thousands of manuscripts for nearly two millennia and widely accept that final form and assuming you know better. That is not enlightenment, it’s pride. You suggested I study the Koran, have you ever studied the Bible? Seriously, it seems most of your beliefs are not scripturally sound.

 

[Red Leg]

I’m aware of the Islamic concept of the “People of the Book”. Paying jizya and second class citizenship probably helped them be more tolerant.. That said, one cannot reject/deny Christ and make it to Heaven. Period. There won’t be any true Muslims there.. It seems you think otherwise? I’m curious where you can back that up in Scripture?

Also, we all know how tolerant Islam is. Renowned throughout the world since its founding as a truly eclectic and peaceful religion..

The council of Trent is interesting too, when the Catholics formally chose false teachings over their supposed Savior.

There’s more than a little conceit in questioning the validity of the final form of Scripture when men have spent thousands upon thousands of hours studying thousands of manuscripts for nearly two millennia and widely accept that final form and assuming you know better. That is not enlightenment, it’s pride. You suggested I study the Koran, have you ever studied the Bible? Seriously, it seems most of your beliefs are not scripturally sound.

Let's leave it. We truly have no basis of discussion of the topic. I simply believe that God is an Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent being. Hence, he can not be limited to a specific interpretation of something so incomprehensible by mere human beings. I am truly happy for you that your find your strict interpretation of scripture is adequate.

I do not base my understanding of God by any particular scripture. Though, I do adhere most closely to Calvinism because it has offered the most intellectual approach in my experience to an understanding of God. Others prefer the ritualism of Catholicism or the Episcopal church. Evangelicalism seems to favor the emotional. I honestly believe any are as valid as the other as are the other attempts by man to conform religiously to a by definition incomprehensible God.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Let's leave it. We truly have no basis of discussion of the topic. I simply believe that God is an Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent being. Hence, he can not be limited to a specific interpretation of something so incomprehensible by mere human beings. I am truly happy for you that your find your strict interpretation of "scripture" is adequate.

To the contrary it seems like it’s not the lack of basis for discussion but an unwillingness to delve deeper. In any case I’ll leave it alone after this post. It’s impossible to discuss the topic without getting into scripture. Simply believing in “God” and being a “good” man is not enough. I truly hope it’s not too late before you realize you’re wrong.

 

[Red Leg]

To the contrary it seems like it’s not the lack of basis for discussion but an unwillingness to delve deeper. In any case I’ll leave it alone after this post. It’s impossible to discuss the topic without getting into scripture. Simply believing in “God” and being a “good” man is not enough. I truly hope it’s not too late before you realize you’re wrong.

I'll save you a seat by the fire.

 

[CJW]

Come on guys, it's Thanksgiving. Politics and religion are meant to be discussed around the dinner table with family, where copious amounts of food and silverware can be thrown and chairs upended when disagreements happen in true and proper Thanksgiving and family get together tradition.

Now kiss and make up.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I wash my hands of this

 

[cwpayton]

The Air Force had the GLCM (Ground Lailunch Cruise Missiles) in the late 80s. I was station at Comiso AS, and was part of the GLCM Comm Relay Team. When our unit (base) became operational the Soviet Union at the time, signed the INF treaty. Our motto was: “ We could rock Moscow, hit after hit, after hit”.

I remember our missiles being shipped to DM AFB for destruction. I’m not sure if we have anything today that could carry a nuclear or conventional payload.

The GLCM was deadly and super accurate, with either conventional or nuclear payloads. Unfortunately, once launched they couldn’t be recalled.

just curious where is comiso air station is that what they use to call the elephant cage . I had a close friend stationed at davis m.

 

[skydiver386]

I think the operative word here is "think". Every religion and its offshoots interpret the dogma according the their own beliefs, prejudices and thoughts and "think" their interpretation is the true Word.

Hence, the millions of lives lost in history in wars fought in the name of religion even onto today.

Monty Python even made a satiric movie named "Life of Brian" about this, best scene is below:

The overwhelming majority of wars throughout history had nothing to do with religion. This is a myth pushed by mostly secular people. Wars are fought over land, resources and political power.

 

[cwpayton]

I'll save you a seat by the fire.

well sir I should like to continue this deep discussion, I hope the fire is a big campfire somewhere after a days hunt, but not here on this forum its just not adequate, I do enjoy listening to a presbyterian ," "Bruce Gore" teaching. on utube. hes very good.

 

[Mekaniks]

just curious where is comiso air station is that what they use to call the elephant cage . I had a close friend stationed at davis m.

AN/FLR-9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tanks]

The overwhelming majority of wars throughout history had nothing to do with religion. This is a myth pushed by mostly secular people. Wars are fought over land, resources and political power.

European wars of religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fought primarily in Central Europe, an estimated 4.5 to 8 million soldiers and civilians died from the effects of battle, famine, or disease, while parts of Germany reported population declines of over 50%

The war can be seen as a continuation of the religious conflict initiated by the 16th-century Reformation within the Holy Roman Empire.

And let's not forget the Crusades.

 

[fourfive8]

European wars of religion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thirty Years' War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And let's not forget the Crusades.

Oh ya? … I’ll call your Thirty Years War and raise you a Hundred Years War! Or how about I call your “cherry picked” European religious wars and raise you a WW1 or WW2! Or… US Revolutionary War or Mexican-American War or US Civil War or Spanish-American War or a couple of IndoChina /Vietnam Wars or Korean War or a few Afghan-“fill in the blank” Wars or a couple of Persian Gulf Wars and let’s not forget the current Ukraine-Russia War.

Go ahead, keep using the childish “ya-but” debate technique. The counterpoints are easy simply by definition. Just come out and take a core values stance. If you have a basic anti-religion core, simply own the position.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

The Crusades were necessary. It’s another secular myth that they were some kind of evil pursuit by the evil Christians.

 

[skydiver386]

Wars are fought for land, resources and political power. Religion gets dragged into it, pretty much the same way it got dragged into this discussion.

 

[PARA45]

just curious where is comiso air station is that what they use to call the elephant cage . I had a close friend stationed at davis m.

Comiso AS was in Sicily, Italy. Shortly after the INF was signed, the base shut down and was turned over to the Sicilian Air Force.

 

[sgt_zim]

On the contrary, I think God (that’s the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) cares quite a bit about how we interpret Scripture [that’s the Old & New Testaments of the Holy Bible, excluding the apocrypha (along with all their false teachings)] that the Catholics accept. The fact that He gave us His Word which is so explicit about what He wants us to believe and how to live and (wholly) sufficient to gain understanding on any subject proves how much He cares.

The Calvinists and the Catholics don’t believe in the correct doctrine of salvation. Both the Catholic and the Calvinist beliefs on the topic are antithetical to what Scripture says and wholly inconsistent with the nature of God presented in Scripture. Their beliefs are founded on twisting of Scripture and uninspired canon. If you don’t even have the doctrine of salvation, which is the entry point to the Christian faith, correct then how do you proceed any further? At the time Martin Luther enlightened many (freeing them from the corrupted Catholic Church), John Calvin came to mislead many.

Jesus Christ (the Christ of the Scriptures) is the only way to God. The Jews have largely rejected Him. That said there are many who have been, are being and will be saved. For God’s chosen people His promises will be kept.

As for Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and all the other false religions of the world see the first sentence of my previous paragraph. There is no hope in any other and no other source for salvation.

On the subject of the many denominations of Christianity, some schisms initially occurred over secondary issues but it looks like many are now truly disqualifying themselves as they increasingly adopt false teachings.

True Christianity is by nature narrow and exclusionary (necessarily so and according to Scripture). Many will see those as negative connotations but they are not and I would simply tell them to study and decide for themselves whether my claims are true or not.

THE problem with sola scriptura is that the Bible itself is a product of Orthodox (to include Roman Catholic) Tradition. There is no way to impugn Tradition without impugning the Bible.

What do Christians actually believe, going back to The Pentecost? Those beliefs are codified in the Nicene, Apostle's, and Athanasian creeds. None of those are in the Bible, and I'm quite uncomfortable with the idea that denominations who do not recite them are actually within Apostolic Succession. But for those non-Orthodox denominations who do recite one of them (usually the Apostle's), it's further acknowledgment of the value and importance of Tradition.

Since we can't emulate The Christ, the best we can do is emulate in belief and deed what the earliest Christians in Jerusalem, Antioch, Greece, Italy, and Egypt did. For myself, I have greater confidence that that's to be found in Orthodoxy, again, including Latin Rite Orthodoxy.

 

[Tanks]

Oh ya? … I’ll call your Thirty Years War and raise you a Hundred Years War! Or how about I call your “cherry picked” European religious wars and raise you a WW1 or WW2! Or… US Revolutionary War or Mexican-American War or US Civil War or Spanish-American War or a couple of IndoChina /Vietnam Wars or Korean War or a few Afghan-“fill in the blank” Wars or a couple of Persian Gulf Wars and let’s not forget the current Ukraine-Russia War.

Go ahead, keep using the childish “ya-but” debate technique. The counterpoints are easy simply by definition. Just come out and take a core values stance. If you have a basic anti-religion core, simply own the position.

The point I was making was:

Hence, the millions of lives lost in history in wars fought in the name of religion even onto today.

Not that every war was due to religion. So, my examples were "cherry-picked" specifically to point out my earlier point.

Interesting that you get "holier-than-thou" when someone debates your points. You should be satisfied that while you are going to heaven all the rest of us that do not agree with your very narrow dogma are going to hell. I'll light a cigar for you.