Reloading The 35 Whelen With Power Pro Varmint

[Close Range]

@Close Range
Run the numbers again with the projectile 2.5 inches high at 100 and post for us to see please
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

Interesting velocities with the Whelen? I would assume then, a handloaded .30-06 can meet or surpass the velocity of a handloaded .300WM with the same bullet weight? If so, why were the .300WM and .338WM cartridges developed in the first place? Obviously, the .338 and .35 Whelen are different calibers, but still?

Well….

In reality, the new powders will make a .30-06 come close, or equal the velocities of the old .300 H&H Magnum.

RL-26 gets the 180gr bullets going 2880 - 2900 fps.

StaBALL 6.5 gets the 200-212gr bullets into the 2800 fps area.

One of the reasons the 35 Whelen does so well is because it’s got a larger diameter, and larger bore, so pressures aren’t as high pushing bullets down the bore, even heavier bullets are pushed faster because of the lack of the amount of friction it takes to push a smaller bullet through its barrel compared to a bigger bullet.


Hawk

 

[Close Range]

I just looked at load data from Sierra for the 7 mm mag and the 30-06 and they show 2990 and 2930 FPS both for the 165 gr bullet.
Just me thinking but I believe the larger diameter surface the powder has to push on makes the difference.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 415911

@Close Range.
That looks more real world sighting.
A fair dinkum 400 plus yard hunting cartridge for the nay sayers.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well….

In reality, the new powders will make a .30-06 come close, or equal the velocities of the old .300 H&H Magnum.

RL-26 gets the 180gr bullets going 2880 - 2900 fps.

StaBALL 6.5 gets the 200-212gr bullets into the 2800 fps area.

One of the reasons the 35 Whelen does so well is because it’s got a larger diameter, and larger bore, so pressures aren’t as high pushing bullets down the bore, even heavier bullets are pushed faster because of the lack of the amount of friction it takes to push a smaller bullet through its barrel compared to a bigger bullet.


Hawk

Hawkeyesatx:
It's very interesting. Seems the difference then are the newer powders like Hornady Superformance and others that increase velocity with the same powder charge? Although, bullet design (BC/SD) could be a factor too?
CEH

 

[Lee M]

@jwp475
Mate there's nothing wrong with that as long as pressures are fine. That gives you over 4,300 fpe of muzzle energy. Leaves the 300 win mag and 338WM in its wake.
Bob

I love your passion Bob, as i think many of us do on AH, but your last sentence is just not true.

If your going to hand load the .338 win mag or the .300 win magnum to max velocities and compare using the same weight bullet vs. max hand loads in 35 Whelen, the Whelen will never be able to equal the velocity or power.

It’s just impossible due to the fact that the Whelen holds less powder. Per Chuck Hawks data online here are the capacities of H2O for each: Whelen (72.6 grains), .300 win (90.4 grains or 25% more), .338 win (85.6 grains or 18% more).

The .300 win mag is a 30.06 on steroids (bigger case = more powder = more speed and energy). The Whelen is only a 30.06 case with a fatter bullet. You can use new powders and max loads in hand loading and improve on the Whelen’s performance but we can also do that with the .300 and .338 win mags and the Whelen will never catch up.

This doesn’t mean that any one of these calibers are better then the other. They all are good and have plenty of range and power. More than what is needed for most deer sized game hunting.

But i assume that your comment “leaving in its wake” is referring to speed and energy. And if that is the measure you are referring to in your comparison of these three rounds, your beloved Whelen would get the bronze medal when comparing max hand loads and the same weight bullets. It is Olympic time, so thought this appropriate, lol.

As sestoppelman said there is nothing magic about the Whelen, just a very efficient round.

You want to have a round that would do well in what you are comparing? Neck up the .300 win mag to .35 caliber. We’ll call it the “Bob Whelen” here on AH and you can work up some loads claiming it leaves the .375 H&H in its wake.

Cheers mate

 

[hawkeyesatx]

Hawkeyesatx:
It's very interesting. Seems the difference then are the newer powders like Hornady Superformance and others that increase velocity with the same powder charge? Although, bullet design (BC/SD) could be a factor too?
CEH

Yes, most definitely, bullet design can, is a big factor.
I never thought I would see a 212 gr ELD-X bullet going 2800+ fps out of an ‘06, but it happened.
I wouldn’t hesitate to use that bullet, along with StaBALL 6.5 for anything except the BIG bruins here in the States.


Hawk

 

[CoElkHunter]

I love your passion Bob, as i think many of us do on AH, but your last sentence is just not true.

If your going to hand load the .338 win mag or the .300 win magnum to max velocities and compare using the same weight bullet vs. max hand loads in 35 Whelen, the Whelen will never be able to equal the velocity or power.

It’s just impossible due to the fact that the Whelen holds less powder. Per Chuck Hawks data online here are the capacities of H2O for each: Whelen (72.6 grains), .300 win (90.4 grains or 25% more), .338 win (85.6 grains or 18% more).

The .300 win mag is a 30.06 on steroids (bigger case = more powder = more speed and energy). The Whelen is only a 30.06 case with a fatter bullet. You can use new powders and max loads in hand loading and improve on the Whelen’s performance but we can also do that with the .300 and .338 win mags and the Whelen will never catch up.

This doesn’t mean that any one of these calibers are better then the other. They all are good and have plenty of range and power. More than what is needed for most deer sized game hunting.

But i assume that your comment “leaving in its wake” is referring to speed and energy. And if that is the measure you are referring to in your comparison of these three rounds, your beloved Whelen would get the bronze medal when comparing max hand loads and the same weight bullets. It is Olympic time, so thought this appropriate, lol.

As sestoppelman said there is nothing magic about the Whelen, just a very efficient round.

You want to have a round that would do well in what you are comparing? Neck up the .300 win mag to .35 caliber. We’ll call it the “Bob Whelen” here on AH and you can work up some loads claiming it leaves the .375 H&H in its wake.

Cheers mate

Well Bob gets excited and exhilarated about the hot Whelen loads with the new powders and bullets available. You have to realize that when the Whelen was first “wildcatted”, Bob had only Cordite stick powder and lead or cupronickel round nose bullets to reload with. So, I do understand his current over exuberance with the Whelen loads and velocities.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I love your passion Bob, as i think many of us do on AH, but your last sentence is just not true.

If your going to hand load the .338 win mag or the .300 win magnum to max velocities and compare using the same weight bullet vs. max hand loads in 35 Whelen, the Whelen will never be able to equal the velocity or power.

It’s just impossible due to the fact that the Whelen holds less powder. Per Chuck Hawks data online here are the capacities of H2O for each: Whelen (72.6 grains), .300 win (90.4 grains or 25% more), .338 win (85.6 grains or 18% more).

The .300 win mag is a 30.06 on steroids (bigger case = more powder = more speed and energy). The Whelen is only a 30.06 case with a fatter bullet. You can use new powders and max loads in hand loading and improve on the Whelen’s performance but we can also do that with the .300 and .338 win mags and the Whelen will never catch up.

This doesn’t mean that any one of these calibers are better then the other. They all are good and have plenty of range and power. More than what is needed for most deer sized game hunting.

But i assume that your comment “leaving in its wake” is referring to speed and energy. And if that is the measure you are referring to in your comparison of these three rounds, your beloved Whelen would get the bronze medal when comparing max hand loads and the same weight bullets. It is Olympic time, so thought this appropriate, lol.

As sestoppelman said there is nothing magic about the Whelen, just a very efficient round.

You want to have a round that would do well in what you are comparing? Neck up the .300 win mag to .35 caliber. We’ll call it the “Bob Whelen” here on AH and you can work up some loads claiming it leaves the .375 H&H in its wake.

Cheers mate

@Lee M
I don't load for either the 300 or the 338 but I do know they already run good pressures comparable to the Whelen. Yes they atmre 3 good cartridges but I like getting people outside the box and giving old rounds a fair shake. Every one you speak to thinks whe Whelen and others make dandy brush rounds where as in reality the make a dam fine 400 plus round as well.
Mate I don't mind a bronze medal at least it is recognised.
Reminds me of the man that told his wife if the Olympics had a section for lovemaking he would get a gold every time.
His wife replied with a smile and said she would be happier if he got a silver and came second at times.
Ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[jwp475]

Got some CFE223 on the way. I'm going to try CFE223 with some 250 grain bullets

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Got some CFE223 on the way. I'm going to try CFE223 with some 250 grain bullets

@jwp475
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. What 250s are you going to try. If you are using the old Hornady roundnose you may need to go up a couple of grains because of the smaller bearing surface.
Have fun
Bob

 

[jwp475]

I have 50 Speer, 50 Partitions and 100 Hornady SP Interlock.
CFE223 is slower in burn rate than the Power Pro Varmint. It may work better with the 225 Accubond

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have 50 Speer, 50 Partitions and 100 Hornady SP Interlock.
CFE223 is slower in burn rate than the Power Pro Varmint. It may work better with the 225 Accubond

@jwp475
The speer and Partitions will take the same load. With the Interlock back off 2 grains and work up
The 225gn accubond I worked up to 64gn of CFE223 for 2,850 odd fps usual loading caution applies.
Bob
CFE223 sits happily between Varget and H4350

 

[Rob404]

Muzzle Velocity is fine but hows the accuracy at 200yds

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Muzzle Velocity is fine but hows the accuracy at 200yds

@Rob404
I didn't check at 200 yards but hitting a 6 inch gong at 300 yards with every shot was boringly easy.
Bob

 

[Lee M]

Nice shooting Bob! The avg person doesn’t have the skill to do that even if the rifle has the capability.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nice shooting Bob! The avg person doesn’t have the skill to do that even if the rifle has the capability.

@ Lee M
It's called practice and confidence in one's rifle and self.
This can only be done with practice, practice and then more practice. Even if it is with a 22lr and making the target smaller the farther you move it out.
If you can consistently hit a 2" target with your favorite 22 at 100 yards you should have no problems a 300with a 6 or even 4" target with your favourite hunting rifle.
Bob
Bob

 

[jwp475]

Front forearm of rifle rested and kneeling on one knee

 

[jwp475]

I just worked a load for the Hornady 200 grain FTX with Power Pro Varmint
Much better extreme spread than with the 225 Accubond. I believe CFE223 with close the extreme spread with 22t and 250s

 

[jwp475]

Hornady 200 grain FTX 5 @ 200 yards