Running a double rifle

[rookhawk]

Instead af actively firing would you not get all the loading and double trigger finger practice you need with snap caps? It doesn't need to go bang each time. That way you get to use the actual rifle. That is what I am going to do.

Certainly better than nothing. But live fire is ideal. Being in continental Europe, I wonder if he could find .22lr tubes for his 7mm barrels for reasonable money? It would be another great way to practice.

@VertigoBE you asked about stock dimensions earlier. Shotguns are typically 1” longer LOP than rifle stocks. They also usually do not have cheek pieces. They usually have automatic resetting safeties too. Exceptions to these certainly exist in the European marketplace. I would not be surprised if you could find a 1960s-1970s Heym German SxS double trigger shotgun in 16 or 20 gauge with a cheek piece for Less than 1000 euros. If it has a resetting safety, its a very simple matter to disable it so it has the same manual safety as a double rifle. If you wanted it to be heavy and point like a pig, you could find a 12 gauge heym with 26” barrels and install 20 gauge tubes in it. It would surely weigh a ton and behave like a double rifle at that point. Heym shotguns from West Germany, post war, aren’t worth every much at all. That’s your practice tool if you want to get used to side by side weapons with double triggers.

 

[VertigoBE]

This is a very valid point, and exactly the reason why I do not own a set of 20 gauge barrels for my Krieghoff .470. The US 2021 list price for the rifle is $16,000 and an extra set of 20 gauge barrels is $6,000. Ouch!!!

However, considering the rifle you are getting (full engraving & gold inlay, presentation grade wood, two barrels sets, two claw mounts, two Zeiss Victory HT scopes, one Aimpoint red dot, exotic leather case, etc.), it was a fair supposition that possibly an additional $6k would not break the bank

Anyway, in your case, .375 H&H ammo costs nowhere near what the big bore ammo costs, and, more to the point, you can get regular and dirt-cheap practice with inexpensive 7x65R ammo (I have PPU in mind), even if it does not group particularly well in your rifle, which to practice quick shooting with iron sights at a 6" steel plate at 50 yards is likely plenty good enough

If you think i paid the new cost for this setup you are mistaken. I made out like a robber baron on the auction. I believe @rookhawk worded it like “I freaking stole the rifle”.

But a very good point on using the 7x65r barrels with cheap ammo for practice. I’m just wondering if I ever would need to be afraid of shooting the barrels out ?

 

[Frank Cavallo]

If you're not working up handloads your rifle should already be regulated to some ammo- point of aim dead center.

IMO and my PH you'll have either two solids or two softs (good premium bullets).

I guess you can set your red dot to the right barrel if you like as that is the "money shot" and the follow up being flinged at dead center mass, but I have my red dot sighted dead center.

Sling for me.

Snap caps serve a purpose. But IMO only to release spring tension for storage of a gun after pulling both triggers.

I've never been able to correlate the feeling of snap cap firing or for that matter dry firing any non rimfire rifle/handgun with that of firing a rifle in the field. It always feels so alien to me. I don't practice with them at all.

For reloading, get a canvas 5 cartridge belt holder with dummies and practice reloading.

SLOW is SAFE and repeatable. Fast is for videos.

When finished, then put in your snap caps, pull both triggers and put in safe.

Don't waste your time practicing reloading one barrel.

 

[Frederik]

I don't own a double but see enough and hang around enough people with doubles with our shoots.
I also doubt I will ever own a double I like them but my heart loves bolt actions more.

I must commend Vertigo for the start of this probarbly one of the best productive posts in a while. So much good info that could actually be compiled in a small booklet for any double owner or owner to be.

 

[VertigoBE]

One more thing VertigoBE...

You said in another thread:


FYI, the combo Norma PH 350 gr Woodleigh FMJ (Full Metal Jacket = "solid") and RNSN (Round Nose Soft Nose = "soft") is what I use in my .375 H&H Blaser R8 barrel for the heavies. Of course a R8 barrel's group is irrelevant to a double's group, but this is not the point. The point is that in the below group there are two solids on the right (in the bull) and two softs on the left (about 1" off the solids). What this means is that these two Norma PH loads essentially DO shoot to the same point of aim (or close enough that it does not matter for DG hunting).
Since Woodleigh does not make a 350 gr SP (Soft Point), I think that Heym meant the RNSN, or in short the SN (Soft Nose). Chances are therefore extremely good that your .375 H&H will group these solids and softs together, which is quite desirable but not always a given...

View attachment 437876

You also did say in that other thread:


I will grant you that the .375 H&H is hardly a DG "stopper" alike the .450, .470 or .500 (which is a point that I have made myself repeatedly on AH.com) but a tremendous DG "killer" it is, and as to what a .375 H&H Norma PH 350 gr Woodleigh FMJ will do to Elephant, I do not think that you need to worry. I worked pretty well for me

View attachment 437879

And with 350 gr softs, the .375 H&H steps deep into .416/400 gr territory (see Kevin Robertson's Africa's Most Dangerous) so you are all set for DG\.

You have a beautiful rifle my Friend, I wish you a life of enjoyment and success with it


PS: since you have the 7x65R barrel for it, I would assume that this is what you would use on Tiny Tens etc. so the argument about stocking up on .375 H&H solids because they are less destructive on small critters, while true, may not apply much to you. At any rate, my own experience is that aside from Elephant, there is not much you will shoot with solids, especially 350 gr which are liable to puch in and out of a Buffalo lengthwise. I think Red Leg said somewhere above that he does not use solids on Buffalo anymore, even for follow-up shots. For what it is worth, neither do I. A 500 gr TSX .470 or .458, or a 350 gr TSX .375 are but expanding solids and will do anything - and much, much more - that a Kynoch solid used to do...

You are fully correct @One Day… I meant to write soft nose :

Norma Woodleigh Soft Nose .375 Holland and Holland Magnum 350gr

www.norma-ammunition.com

What I meant with my comment that the .375 is hardly only a dangerous game cartridge. I’m full aware it can be used perfectly as a DG cartridge, but wanted to communicate to another member, that my use of the rifle will not be exclusively for DG. .375 will do great on plains game too.

Thank you for the compliment on the rifle. I for one cannot believe it yet that I will be the owner of such a work of art.

Concerning the 7x65r barrel set I am still mitigated. Unless I would do a safari exclusively on tiny ten or smaller plains game, I think it might be a more optimal solution to only bring the Heym with .375 barrel set + my takedown Mauser M03 in .300 win mag/.375h&h as a backup (both in a Pelican 1700 ) The Heym carried by myself, the Mauser by a tracker. If a longer shot on a smaller critter presents itself, it will be easier to exchange rifles, rather than mount the other barrel set in the field. But I’m open to hearing alternative viewpoints.

 

[VertigoBE]

Certainly better than nothing. But live fire is ideal. Being in continental Europe, I wonder if he could find .22lr tubes for his 7mm barrels for reasonable money? It would be another great way to practice.

@VertigoBE you asked about stock dimensions earlier. Shotguns are typically 1” longer LOP than rifle stocks. They also usually do not have cheek pieces. They usually have automatic resetting safeties too. Exceptions to these certainly exist in the European marketplace. I would not be surprised if you could find a 1960s-1970s Heym German SxS double trigger shotgun in 16 or 20 gauge with a cheek piece for Less than 1000 euros. If it has a resetting safety, its a very simple matter to disable it so it has the same manual safety as a double rifle. If you wanted it to be heavy and point like a pig, you could find a 12 gauge heym with 26” barrels and install 20 gauge tubes in it. It would surely weigh a ton and behave like a double rifle at that point. Heym shotguns from West Germany, post war, aren’t worth every much at all. That’s your practice tool if you want to get used to side by side weapons with double triggers.

Thanks for the tip @rookhawk, I’ll see what I can find in the gun shops around.

 

[VertigoBE]

I don't own a double but see enough and hang around enough people with doubles with our shoots.
I also doubt I will ever own a double I like them but my heart loves bolt actions more.

I must commend Vertigo for the start of this probarbly one of the best productive posts in a while. So much good info that could actually be compiled in a small booklet for any double owner or owner to be.

This was and is actually my entire goal. To concentrate all the best practices and knowledge from the most experienced double rifle shooters together in one document. If the final result is decent enough I’ll provide the finished product to Jerome for members to download. (Gratis of course)

 

[VertigoBE]

Snap caps serve a purpose. But IMO only to release spring tension for storage of a gun after pulling both triggers.

I've never been able to correlate the feeling of snap cap firing or for that matter dry firing any non rimfire rifle/handgun with that of firing a rifle in the field. It always feels so alien to me. I don't practice with them at all.

For reloading, get a canvas 5 cartridge belt holder with dummies and practice reloading.

SLOW is SAFE and repeatable. Fast is for videos.

When finished, then put in your snap caps, pull both triggers and put in safe.

Don't waste your time practicing reloading one barrel.

Thanks @Frank Cavallo for your aid, the snap caps would mainly be for the reloading practice.

 

[Frank Cavallo]

You want practice with similar sized and weighted objects. Dummies are what you want, not snap caps.

 

[VertigoBE]

You want practice with similar sized and weighted objects. Dummies are what you want, not snap caps.

Would this not work?

 

[DG Gunsmith]

You are fully correct @One Day… I meant to write soft nose :

Norma Woodleigh Soft Nose .375 Holland and Holland Magnum 350gr

www.norma-ammunition.com

What I meant with my comment that the .375 is hardly only a dangerous game cartridge. I’m full aware it can be used perfectly as a DG cartridge, but wanted to communicate to another member, that my use of the rifle will not be exclusively for DG. .375 will do great on plains game too.

Thank you for the compliment on the rifle. I for one cannot believe it yet that I will be the owner of such a work of art.

Concerning the 7x65r barrel set I am still mitigated. Unless I would do a safari exclusively on tiny ten or smaller plains game, I think it might be a more optimal solution to only bring the Heym with .375 barrel set + my takedown Mauser M03 in .300 win mag/.375h&h as a backup (both in a Pelican 1700 ) The Heym carried by myself, the Mauser by a tracker. If a longer shot on a smaller critter presents itself, it will be easier to exchange rifles, rather than mount the other barrel set in the field. But I’m open to hearing alternative viewpoints.

The .375 H&H is the all round Safari Cartridge... It can take Dangerous Game(With proper Bullet selection & Shot Placement) as well as it's a fantastic Plains Game Cartridge(Again, there are lighter loads more suitable for Plain's Game... You don't want to use Cape Buffalo loads for Duiker...)

 

[Frank Cavallo]

For bottleneck cartridges the feel would suffice, but what is the weight? No substitute for the real thing. Certainly better than those for a 500 nitro.

 

[Red Leg]

The .375 H&H is the all round Safari Cartridge... It can take Dangerous Game(With proper Bullet selection & Shot Placement) as well as it's a fantastic Plains Game Cartridge(Again, there are lighter loads more suitable for Plain's Game... You don't want to use Cape Buffalo loads for Duiker...)

Actually the best load for a duiker or oribi or suni is the solid that shoots to the same aiming point as the premium SP that the client is using on his buffalo. I have taken all but one of the small antelope I have shot with either 300 gr Hydros or 300 gr DGS. They make neat .375 diameter holes going and coming. A lighter .375 SP would cut a small duiker in half.

The other nice thing about the 300 gr load is that a premium SP works superbly on both buffalo and plains game, with plenty of reach for almost any situation.

Admittedly, the 300 gr bullet would not be my first choice on a pure PG hunt, but then neither would the .375. My last was conducted with a .275.

 

[Rare Breed]

Thank you @One Day… I was secretly hoping to lure you into writing one of your always very thorough and much appreciated analysis’!

Concerning the sighting in, and also as a response to @Red Leg and @rookhawk, I think I’ll first try the average way to start. Depending on results I’ll then relaunch this topic with all of you!

Concerning bullet selection, I understand that with today’s premium softs (my rifle is regulated for 350grain Norma Woodleigh’s soft nose) I should only have a use for solids on elephant and land hippo? Is that correct? In which case I’ll buy far less solids (350grain Norma Woodleigh FMJ) and much more softs. No point in having 500 solids for life then.

African carry is of course excluded, and I’ll try out with a sling barrel up or down, whatever is most comfortable.

Front first, back second, got it! Need to find a cheap sxs for practice at the range too. Also good for practicing the different recoil impulse.

I have the choice of extractors or ejectors on my Heym apparently. Would it make sense to never rely on the ejectors and practice mainly as if it were extractor only?

On reloading, the consensus seems to be stop, reload, run. Not while moving.

Also need to practice this safety on off movement. My Mauser M03 has a cocking lever safety. So I have always practiced first shouldering, then cocking. I’ll need to break this habit…

@DG Gunsmith: we are back to work at home in Belgium for the coming weeks and this will probably remain so for some time. Hopefully I’ll get my hands on the rifle soon, so i can continuously pick it up, manipulate it in between meetings and calls. To get perfectly accustomed to it. I did it during the last lockdown, for my pistol and rifle. This helps a lot indeed. Btw if you would like to see what I bought (but not yet possess) take a look in the thread “look what AH made me buy”

@Kevin Peacocke: unfortunately as I’m buying the rifle pre owned, I do not yet know what my options will be in the fitting department. I’m not sure I have already found a gunshop in Belgium that I could trust with making any modifications to the rifle (if necessary of course). Despite the great reputation of Belgian firearms and makers, I believe most of that is long in the past… there are still a few, but the knowledge is diminishing.

Thanks a lot for your replies so far, please do not hesitate to continue this discussion! This is invaluable to a puppy like me!

V.

LOP is absolutely critical as is weight when shooting 416 and up in my experience. I bought a 470 DR with too short LOP and about 3.5 pounds too light and it about took my shoulder off even though I was holding correctly and I am 6:2 225 lbs so a fairly stout guy. If you buy a big bore and do not correct LOP you will regret it. My new 450-400 DR is both perfect weight and LOP and I can shoot it all day and love it

 

[One Day...]

You are fully correct @One Day… I meant to write soft nose :

Norma Woodleigh Soft Nose .375 Holland and Holland Magnum 350gr

www.norma-ammunition.com

What I meant with my comment that the .375 is hardly only a dangerous game cartridge. I’m full aware it can be used perfectly as a DG cartridge, but wanted to communicate to another member, that my use of the rifle will not be exclusively for DG. .375 will do great on plains game too.

Thank you for the compliment on the rifle. I for one cannot believe it yet that I will be the owner of such a work of art.

Concerning the 7x65r barrel set I am still mitigated. Unless I would do a safari exclusively on tiny ten or smaller plains game, I think it might be a more optimal solution to only bring the Heym with .375 barrel set + my takedown Mauser M03 in .300 win mag/.375h&h as a backup (both in a Pelican 1700 ) The Heym carried by myself, the Mauser by a tracker. If a longer shot on a smaller critter presents itself, it will be easier to exchange rifles, rather than mount the other barrel set in the field. But I’m open to hearing alternative viewpoints.

Woodleigh soft

Interestingly VertigoBE, the designation on the website (SN- soft nose) does not match the designation on the boxes of ammo (RNSN - Round Nose Soft Nose), which is why I called it that way, but the stock number is the same No.20195252, so there is no doubt we are talking about the same thing

.375 H&H for DG

What I meant with my comment that the .375 is hardly only a dangerous game cartridge. I’m full aware it can be used perfectly as a DG cartridge, but wanted to communicate to another member, that my use of the rifle will not be exclusively for DG. .375 will do great on plains game too.

Agreed 100%. Sorry if my writing implied that I had misunderstood your point

.300 vs 7x65R

Undoubtedly, the .300 (of whichever denomination) will give you a flatter trajectory and better reach than the 7x65R, therefore from a pure ballistics perspective, it would be "better."

This being said, as you well know the 7x65R is no slouch, and if memory serves (I have a 7x65R Kipplauf rifle too ) the RWS KS 10.5 g (162 gr) flies out the barrel at 820 m/s (2,690 fps) - maybe a tad less from the 63.5 cm (25") barrels - which is not all that far from the 2,850 fps that the .280 Rem achieves with a 162 gr slug, and nobody ever accused the .280 of being a short range cartridge

To make a long story short, I would not feel disadvantaged with the 7x65R out to 300 yards, and I guess that in this specific case, the choice would rest as much on irrational considerations (likes & dislikes, mood of the moment, etc.) as it would rest on rational reasons

That is assuming that the 7x65R barrels group, but I am not too worried about that

This being said, it is a time-honored practice to take along double and bolt-action and ask one of the trackers to carry one of them. I do it myself all the time when hunting DG with the .470, initially with iron sights and now with red dot, for closer work, and a scoped bolt action for longer work. In your case, the double itself being scoped, the need is probably lesser, but still perfectly rational

Shooting off the 7x65R barrels...

I am also not too worried about that, unless you shoot thousands upon thousands of hard steel jacket slugs, which you will not. Typically 7x65R copper jacket slugs will just slide through there like greased billiard balls. Your great grand-son may want to check the rifling in 75 years, but this will hardly be your problem

300 gr .375 H&H

Actually the best load for a duiker or oribi or suni is the solid that shoots to the same aiming point as the premium SP that the client is using on his buffalo. I have taken all but one of the small antelope I have shot with either 300 gr Hydros or 300 gr DGS. They make neat .375 diameter holes going and coming. A lighter .375 SP would cut a small duiker in half.

The other nice thing about the 300 gr load is that a premium SP works superbly on both buffalo and plains game, with plenty of reach for almost any situation.

Admittedly, the 300 gr bullet would not be my first choice on a pure PG hunt, but then neither would the .375. My last was conducted with a .275.

Entirely in agreement, the 300 gr loads have been the .375 H&H iconic loads, and they are now better than ever with modern bullets, especially TSX and AFrame. I find the 300 gr TSX devastating on larger PG, and with the BDC Leica 2.5x10x42 on my R8 barrel it will shoot as far as I ever care to.

VertigoBE may (?) be lucky, and his rifle may (?) also regulate well with 300 gr slugs (although obviously to a different point of impact), but if it shoots markedly better the 350 gr Woodleigh for which it was regulated, then the Woodleigh 350 gr soft & solid, will serve just the same purpose just as well, admittedly with a little more recoil than the 300 gr (and also a noticeably heavier punch on the big stuff, which is why I used it with the Leica 1-6x24 for Elephant scoped backup, although I will likely retire the use now that I have added a .458 Lott barrel to the R8 stable ).

 

[VertigoBE]

Certainly better than nothing. But live fire is ideal. Being in continental Europe, I wonder if he could find .22lr tubes for his 7mm barrels for reasonable money? It would be another great way to practice.

@VertigoBE you asked about stock dimensions earlier. Shotguns are typically 1” longer LOP than rifle stocks. They also usually do not have cheek pieces. They usually have automatic resetting safeties too. Exceptions to these certainly exist in the European marketplace. I would not be surprised if you could find a 1960s-1970s Heym German SxS double trigger shotgun in 16 or 20 gauge with a cheek piece for Less than 1000 euros. If it has a resetting safety, its a very simple matter to disable it so it has the same manual safety as a double rifle. If you wanted it to be heavy and point like a pig, you could find a 12 gauge heym with 26” barrels and install 20 gauge tubes in it. It would surely weigh a ton and behave like a double rifle at that point. Heym shotguns from West Germany, post war, aren’t worth every much at all. That’s your practice tool if you want to get used to side by side weapons with double triggers.

I might just have had a brilliant idea... or not at all of course, I leave that to your discerning opinion. I was looking on gunfinder (a german online marketplace for new and used firearms) looking for such a Heym sxs, getting nothing. Also I have never seen a sxs with a cheek piece, in the weight category of a double.

But what I can find, probably quite cheap, are older drillings... Would a drilling with sxs shotgun barrels in 20ga or 12ga, with a single rifle barrel below it not be a perfect candidate as a "double rifle practice gun"? The weight will be up, a lot of them have a cheek piece, usually their low value is due to a bad rifle barrel, while the shotgun barrels are likely to be more than fine for a few thousand more rounds. They might even have extractors ??

this is a Merkel Suhl drilling with sxs 12/70 ga shotgun barrels and an underslung 7x65r rifle barrel, double trigger, cheek piece, the works. For the formidable price of 398EUR (around 460USD). I will not buy this exact one of course, I do not want to do the whole import business for a 400 Euro rifle, too much headache, but it is a nice example perhaps of an alternative to a sxs shotgun?

What do you think?

 

[VertigoBE]

Woodleigh soft

Interestingly VertigoBE, the designation on the website (SN- soft nose) does not match the designation on the boxes of ammo (RNSN - Round Nose Soft Nose), which is why I called it that way, but the stock number is the same No.20195252, so there is no doubt we are talking about the same thing

View attachment 438056

.375 H&H for DG



Agreed 100%. Sorry if my writing implied that I had misunderstood your point

.300 vs 7x65R

Undoubtedly, the .300 (of whichever denomination) will give you a flatter trajectory and better reach than the 7x65R, therefore from a pure ballistics perspective, it would be "better."

This being said, as you well know the 7x65R is no slouch, and if memory serves (I have a 7x65R Kipplauf rifle too ) the RWS KS 10.5 g (162 gr) flies out the barrel at 820 m/s (2,690 fps) - maybe a tad less from the 63.5 cm (25") barrels - which is not all that far from the 2,850 fps that the .280 Rem achieves with a 162 gr slug, and nobody ever accused the .280 of being a short range cartridge

To make a long story short, I would not feel disadvantaged with the 7x65R out to 300 yards, and I guess that in this specific case, the choice would rest as much on irrational considerations (likes & dislikes, mood of the moment, etc.) as it would rest on rational reasons

That is assuming that the 7x65R barrels group, but I am not too worried about that

This being said, it is a time-honored practice to take along double and bolt-action and ask one of the trackers to carry one of them. I do it myself all the time when hunting DG with the .470, initially with iron sights and now with red dot, for closer work, and a scoped bolt action for longer work. In your case, the double itself being scoped, the need is probably lesser, but still perfectly rational

Shooting off the 7x65R barrels...

I am also not too worried about that, unless you shoot thousands upon thousands of hard steel jacket slugs, which you will not. Typically 7x65R copper jacket slugs will just slide through there like greased billiard balls. Your great grand-son may want to check the rifling in 75 years, but this will hardly be your problem

300 gr .375 H&H



Entirely in agreement, the 300 gr loads have been the .375 H&H iconic loads, and they are now better than ever with modern bullets, especially TSX and AFrame. I find the 300 gr TSX devastating on larger PG, and with the BDC Leica 2.5x10x42 on my R8 barrel it will shoot as far as I ever care to.

VertigoBE may (?) be lucky, and his rifle may (?) also regulate well with 300 gr slugs (although obviously to a different point of impact), but if it shoots markedly better the 350 gr Woodleigh for which it was regulated, then the Woodleigh 350 gr soft & solid, will serve just the same purpose just as well, admittedly with a little more recoil than the 300 gr (and also a noticeably heavier punch on the big stuff, which is why I used it with the Leica 1-6x24 for Elephant scoped backup, although I will likely retire the use now that I have added a .458 Lott barrel to the R8 stable ).

.375 for DG
No worries at all @One Day... there was definitely no insult taken, and definitely not by me from you!

.300WinMag v 7x65r
Actually I am not even taking the different calibers in consideration. I'm quite confident that both will do what is needed within 200 meters. I'm more thinking about the practicality of bringing my double with two barrel sets. Where I likely always will have the wrong set mounted for the quarry in front of me. Or rather take a second complete rifle that could be carried by a tracker. In my mind the latter option just seems more practical, providing the tracker is actually with me of course. (not in the bakkie or too far away from me). The fact that one is a bolt action and the other a double, is more circumstance as I do not have a second double. But I could perfectly do as one of AH members (his name slips my mind) who went out hunting with two doubles, one a larger and one a smaller caliber.

Shooting off the 7x65r or .375 barrels
Well understood, I'll put a little note for future grand kids to have the barrels checked around the turn of the century

300gr .375
I'm actually not going to contemplate to go there. They are regulated for the 350grains, as long as Norma produces the 350grains, I'll just use those. I see no reason to "downgrade". I could test it out for shits 'n giggles, or rather in case I ever would need to use ammo from my outfitter/ph, because mine got lost. But I will not on purpose buy this. If I want to "downgrade", I'll just put the 7x65r barrelset on it

 

[One Day...]

... I'm more thinking about the practicality of bringing my double with two barrel sets. Where I likely always will have the wrong set mounted for the quarry in front of me ...

I think that this is a diminishing concern. Maybe it still applies in 21 days full bag safaris in Tanzania, but the reality nowadays in most of Africa, is that you will not have in your pocket a Buff (never mind Lion or Elephant) license if you are hunting PG, and, conversely, you will likely not want to empty the block with a shot and compromise your chances at Lion, Elephant or even Buffalo on a 5 or 10 days hunt, unless (even if?) you happen to bump into the next world-record three toed unicorn...

This being said, as stated above, it is completely OK to bring both double and bolt. I do it all the time

300gr .375
I'm actually not going to contemplate to go there. They are regulated for the 350grains, as long as Norma produces the 350grains, I'll just use those. I see no reason to "downgrade". I could test it out for shits 'n giggles, or rather in case I ever would need to use ammo from my outfitter/PH , because mine got lost. But I will not on purpose buy this. If I want to "downgrade", I'll just put the 7x65r barrel set on it

I am 100% with you on this, especially as regards a double regulated for its own load. I have used 300 gr and 350 gr in my R8, with two different scopes, but this was because I had a spare scope lying around waiting for the .458 Lott barrel.

I agree nonetheless that it would be useful to know what your barrels/scope-sighting do with 300 gr, just in case your ammo gets lost. You will find PMP .375 H&H ammo just about anywhere in Africa, and likely a smattering of about anything else (Norma, Federal, Barnes, Swift, Hornady, Remington, Winchester, RWS, etc.) in camp, depending on what was left by previous clients, and most of that will be 300 gr, with some 270 gr in it for good measure.

 

[VertigoBE]

I think that this is a diminishing concern. Maybe it still applies in 21 days full bag safaris in Tanzania, but the reality nowadays in most of Africa, is that you will not have in your pocket a Buff (never mind Lion or Elephant) license if you are hunting PG, and, conversely, you will likely not want to empty the block with a shot and compromise your chances at Lion, Elephant or even Buffalo on a 5 or 10 days hunt, unless (even if?) you happen to bump into the next world-record three toed unicorn...

This being said, as stated above, it is completely OK to bring both double and bolt. I do it all the time



I am 100% with you on this, especially as regards a double regulated for its own load. I have used 300 gr and 350 gr in my R8, with two different scopes, but this was because I had a spare scope lying around waiting for the .458 Lott barrel.

I agree nonetheless that it would be useful to know what your barrels/scope-sighting do with 300 gr, just in case your ammo gets lost. You will find PMP .375 H&H ammo just about anywhere in Africa, and likely a smattering of about anything else (Norma, Federal, Barnes, Swift, Hornady, Remington, Winchester, RWS, etc.) in camp, depending on what was left by previous clients, and most of that will be 300 gr, with some 270 gr in it for good measure.

Do you believe I'm overthinking this with bringing two firearms on a stalk? As stated before, my goal is to go out hunt elephant. As you correctly put it, I'm touching no trigger during a stalk as long as the elephant is not bagged, unless it is the famous three toed and pink tailed unicorn. But from a lot of the hunting reports involving elephant hunting that I have read, a lot of the days go by like this: get up, get in the bakkie, drive till spoor is found, spoor is tracked, elephants are observed, nothing interesting to be seen, then the long walk back to the bakkie to try again the next day.

It is for this last part in the day, only a hour or two before dusk, no more chance to see any elephant that day, that I could be convinced to pull the trigger on a 200m monster bushbuck that has my PH's cheeks flushed... And when that legendary bushbuck shows himself for a few moments in fading light, I'd rather have my Mauser, then my Heym double in my hands.

But I trust on your experience, and if you believe it a non-issue, I'll give it no further thought than that I just wish to one day also bring my Mauser M03 to Africa

 

[Red Leg]

Do you believe I'm overthinking this with bringing two firearms on a stalk? As stated before, my goal is to go out hunt elephant. As you correctly put it, I'm touching no trigger during a stalk as long as the elephant is not bagged, unless it is the famous three toed and pink tailed unicorn. But from a lot of the hunting reports involving elephant hunting that I have read, a lot of the days go by like this: get up, get in the bakkie, drive till spoor is found, spoor is tracked, elephants are observed, nothing interesting to be seen, then the long walk back to the bakkie to try again the next day.

It is for this last part in the day, only a hour or two before dusk, no more chance to see any elephant that day, that I could be convinced to pull the trigger on a 200m monster bushbuck that has my PH's cheeks flushed... And when that legendary bushbuck shows himself for a few moments in fading light, I'd rather have my Mauser, then my Heym double in my hands.

But I trust on your experience, and if you believe it a non-issue, I'll give it no further thought than that I just wish to one day also bring my Mauser M03 to Africa

I know you are chatting with @One Day... at the moment, but there are those of us who strongly believe taking two rifles at all is overthinking the problem.

If your double .375 is scoped and truly accurate (always a bit of an if), then it will handle virtually any requirement you might stumble upon while hunting your buffalo. Assuming you have days remaining for focused PG (I have always had plenty of time to hunt PG as well) then bring the other set of barrels if you are so inclined. I did exactly that with my S2 and its .375 and 30-06 barrels.