Sako crf?

[PerH]

Was popular by some gunsmiths here to alter an bolt like a 700 one with a Sako extractor , easy and simple conversion that worked very good .

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

My FINNBEAR has no issues either!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Was popular by some gunsmiths here to alter an bolt like a 700 one with a Sako extractor , easy and simple conversion that worked very good .

Correct or similar. I have a Custom 300 RUM with a M-16 style claw extractor that is flawless in feed and extraction.

It is also push feed… Never an issue.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Here's the two Sako bolt faces compared. One (model 85) is definitely CRF and one (model 75) is definitely push feed. Not having a rotating claw does not disqualify model 85 as CRF. Only in appearance but function is still controlled feed.

It would appear the Finbear model pictured above (clearly push feed) would not have the same ejection issues because it only has two locking lugs and ejector is cut into lug exactly opposite of opening in receiver. Because the 75 and 85 have three lugs and because the ejector slot is cut between the lugs, the ejector is situated below the opening in the receiver. Empty cases must be ejected upward. The Finbear will eject them laterally.

Correction. Given the placement of extractor vis bolt handle in background, I would assume Finbear would also eject cases upward.
View attachment 649188

Are these bolts from your personal rifles?

Is this information first hand experience?

 

[Beck]

Was popular by some gunsmiths here to alter an bolt like a 700 one with a Sako extractor , easy and simple conversion that worked very good .

I'd like to hear more about that, as I have one Sako a 9.3 x 66 that has some ejection issues. I own over a dozen Sako's, and none of them have issues with the exception of the one rifle. It is also worth noting that the 9.3 x 66 has never failed to eject a case, it just dents them when they smack into the scope.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You know what are opinions are like? Right?

I’ve killed a lot of animals with that rifle and scope; Including very rapid follow up shots. I don’t piece together junk and try to justify it by criticizing other’s quality gear. Now I understand the distain for you and your BS opinions.

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View attachment 649187


I’ve killed a lot of animals with different types of rifles and scopes over the years and long before I was on this site or hunting Africa, if something didn’t work well, I wouldn’t use it. I would also report why.

If you are recoil sensitive, limp wristed, or quick to flench, you would probably need the psychological advantage that you think you have with your bargain basement set ups, but that’s what works for you and your style.

To each their own…

Glad to see you made it work.

You post a video showing there is no ejection issues with your Sako rifle. I explained why. The consensus among most who hunt dangerous game with a scoped rifle is 1) low power scope with no objective bell, 2) straight stock to minimize recoil jump, and 3) lowest rings possible for fast acquisition mounting a straight stock. Having no objective bell allows for more flexibility adjusting for eye relief, which is also very important for quick acquisition. I shot both my buffalo with borrowed 375 CZ550 wearing 3-9x Leopold. Did it acquire fast? Not sure. It wasn't necessary to find out ... fortunately. Looking at the photos it appears the scope was mounted as low as possible with objective bell almost touching the barrel. PH was backing me with his 458 Lott wearing one of those fancy little red dot window sights which acquire VERY quickly. Anyway, your video demonstrates your particular Sako is set up to eject flawlessly with a high mounted scope. And you may be able to shoot well with that setup. But I don't think raising the scope way up would work well for most of us. I want to be able to close my eyes, quickly mount the gun with cheek on stock, open my eyes and scope's full field of view is right there instantly. I do not want to adjust me to make the scope work properly. But hey, that's just me ... and most others who set up their DGR guns.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Are these bolts from your personal rifles?

Is this information first hand experience?

It's geometry and physics. Look at the design. An ejector on the bottom of the receiver will push the ejected case upwards. A claw mounted on the top left of bolt face will pull it upwards. Scope is mounted upwards of ejection port. Ergo ejected casing hits scope. Newton's law says an object set in motion in one direction continues in that direction unless/until an opposite force is encountered. Kinda basic.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It's geometry and physics. Look at the design. An ejector on the bottom of the receiver will push the ejected case upwards. A claw mounted on the top left of bolt face will pull it upwards. Scope is mounted upwards of ejection port. Ergo ejected casing hits scope. Newton's law says an object set in motion in one direction continues in that direction unless/until an opposite force is encountered. Kinda basic.

Not your rifles and More BS opinion… Got it.

You ought to stick to collecting phallic shaped rocks. That seems to be your area of expertise and where your true first hand experience comes from…

 

[Ontario Hunter]

So what I'm seeing is three different design actions for Sako rifles. 75 and 85 appear to be very similar with three locking lugs and ejector underneath. 85 is essentially the same bolt as 75 with part of bolt face machined away to allow CRF loading. Finbear has only two locking lugs, similar to Mauser or Model 70, but appears to have ejector on side of receiver instead of underneath the bolt. It is clearly push feed design. All three models have extractor fixed to upper left looking at bolt face, whereas Mauser and Model 70 have rotating claw extractors that float on left side of bolt during cycling (for right hand rifle). Mauser style ejector is on side of receiver exactly opposite to the claw extractor. Empty cases will be extracted laterally, being pulled and pushed the same direction outward from opposite sides. The pushing (ejector) and pulling (extractor) during extraction of Sako are not opposing forces. Given the location of ejector and particularly the extractor, I can see why there could be problems keeping empty cases from hitting a scope on all three models. An extractor situated on the upward part of bolt face will throw cases upward.

 

[fourfive8]

If you replace the factory extractor on a Rem 700 or 721/722 with a Sako style or M16 style extractor there is some chance, maybe likely, to also create the mechanical geometry that causes a high ejection angle. If that angle is too high, the cases may be ejected into the scope mount or scope windage turret/knob/cover. The same thing can happen with some Sako models. Just a heads up BOLO. Take it or leave it.

Two solutions commonly seen on these forums:

1- raise the scope mounting high enough so ejected cases clear the scope or turret. That destroys proper cheek weld for shooting. It creates something I think is akin to the sighting system on an M-79 grenade launcher Bad recommendation and bad solution, IMO

2- mount a regular, two turret scope rotated 90 degrees left so the windage turret is out of the way of ejected cases. If you are bound and determined to use a scope on a DG rifle with tall knobs or 3 or 4 turrets/knobs... not a thing I can think of to solve the high ejection angle problem if it happens. You are on your own.

pic of solution I have chosen and use on all my hunting rifles and in this case on a Win 70 416 Rem Mag. "Normal", Two turret scope rotated 90 degrees left. No overhanging or rail/bridge type mounts. This is a dual dovetail mount system. This set up ensures ejected cases won't hit scope or mounts and also opens up maximum clearance for loading magazine.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Not your rifles and More BS opinion… Got it.

You ought to stick to collecting phallic shaped rocks. That seems to be your area of expertise and where your true first hand experience comes from…

Newton's First Law of Motion is not my opinion. Most of us learned about it in 8th grade science class.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you replace the factory extractor on a Rem 700 or 721/722 with a Sako style or M16 style extractor there is some chance, maybe likely, to also create the mechanical geometry that causes a high ejection angle. If that angle is too high, the cases may be ejected into the scope mount or scope windage turret/knob/cover. The same thing can happen with some Sako models. Just a heads up BOLO. Take it or leave it.

Two solutions commonly seen on these forums:

1- raise the scope mounting high enough so ejected cases clear the scope or turret. That destroys proper cheek weld for shooting. It creates something I think is akin to the sighting system on an M-79 grenade launcher Bad recommendation and bad solution, IMO

2- mount a regular, two turret scope rotated 90 degrees left so the windage turret is out of the way of ejected cases. If you are bound and determined to use a scope on a DG rifle with tall knobs or 3 or 4 turrets/knobs... not a thing I can think of to solve the high ejection angle problem if it happens. You are on your own.

pic of solution I have chosen and use on all my hunting rifles and in this case on a Win 70 416 Rem Mag. "Normal", Two turret scope rotated 90 degrees left. No overhanging or rail/bridge type mounts. This is a dual dovetail mount system. This set up ensures ejected cases won't hit scope or mounts and also opens up maximum clearance for loading magazine.

View attachment 649205

I often wondered why windage turrets weren't designed on the left side of scopes to start with. Early military rifles loaded from the top. You'd think someone would have noticed snipers could load their guns more easily with turret out of the way. But I guess turrets back in WWI and WWII were generally pretty tiny. Not like the monstrous blobs we see stuck on scopes today.

Any discomfort slinging your rifles with turret on off side?

 

[PerH]

I'd like to hear more about that, as I have one Sako a 9.3 x 66 that has some ejection issues. I own over a dozen Sako's, and none of them have issues with the exception of the one rifle. It is also worth noting that the 9.3 x 66 has never failed to eject a case, it just dents them when they smack into the scope.

Can it be the eject port angle make it hit the scope ? Some rifles with narrow ports can have that bit and solved that issue with a scope that had duplex reticle like a Leupold 3-9x turned around so the adjusting wheels changed placed can say.


They had more rem 700 to build of I think the similar factory innUS that were closest was Ed Brown rifles , they did the same there .

The main builder here , Hansen later made his own action m704 since he was tired over having to do all the work on regular actions , saved some time on machining them with all items to begin with.

 

[HankBuck]

Here's the two Sako bolt faces compared. One (model 85) is definitely CRF and one (model 75) is definitely push feed. Not having a rotating claw does not disqualify model 85 as CRF. Only in appearance but function is still controlled feed.

It would appear the Finbear model pictured above (clearly push feed) would not have the same ejection issues because it only has two locking lugs and ejector is cut into lug exactly opposite of opening in receiver. Because the 75 and 85 have three lugs and because the ejector slot is cut between the lugs, the ejector is situated below the opening in the receiver. Empty cases must be ejected upward. The Finbear will eject them laterally.

Correction. Given the placement of extractor vis bolt handle in background, I would assume Finbear would also eject cases upward.
View attachment 649188

@Ontario Hunter - good pics and helpful —- which of these would have a shorter rotation on the bolt throw? I think mine is around 60 degrees and only a Weatherby (around 57 degrees) had a shorter rotation..

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

M-16 Style extractor on a custom MOA Rifle. 300 RUM. Operates really well. No issues. As previously stated, push feed.