The 243 Winchester for Australian Game

[rdog]

Lets Have Sane discussion about the iconic 243 Winchester & its suitability for hunting game in Australia & other countries with similar sized game. The 243 will handle bullets from 60 grain to 100 grain, is low recoil, so its easy to shoot, is available in a lot of different brand rifles most have a 1-10 twist , Ammo is readily available, its suitable for hunting feral cats, dogs, dingoes, goats, Kangaroos & small deer & with 100 grain bullets wild pigs, its a good caliber
for lady hunters due to its low recoil. For a long range target rifle with 1- 7 twist barrel with 110 grain low drag bullets wins competitions, I have one my sons have i each . But for big pigs its marginal that gives you a reason to have more rifles.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Anyone know if @Bob's account was hacked? I wasn't expecting to see the first 'like' on a .243 thread coming from him, if it was him.

I don't know about Australia and pigs but I know a few folks up here whose kids collected their first moose with a .243. I am not advocating for it being a moose/large game caliber but... it's all about bullet construction and shot placement.

 

[CD24]

It's a pretty underrated cartridge but it helps to have a tracking hound at your disposal. There is not much for a blood trail if the game animal runs.

 

[K E Johnson]

Maybe Bob is liking it for a tomato stake!
I have a good friend who thinks the .243 is tops. I can’t get there myself. I do know it works for others. I have been a bigger bore guy my whole life.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Lets Have Sane discussion about the iconic 243 Winchester & its suitability for hunting game in Australia & other countries with similar sized game. The 243 will handle bullets from 60 grain to 100 grain, is low recoil, so its easy to shoot, is available in a lot of different brand rifles most have a 1-10 twist , Ammo is readily available, its suitable for hunting feral cats, dogs, dingoes, goats, Kangaroos & small deer & with 100 grain bullets wild pigs, its a good caliber
for lady hunters due to its low recoil. For a long range target rifle with 1- 7 twist barrel with 110 grain low drag bullets wins competitions, I have one my sons have i each . But for big pigs its marginal that gives you a reason to have more rifles.

@rdog
You make some valid points BUT I personally have seen to much game wounded with the 243 to deem it worth while as a hunting round.
Here are some examples
243, 87gn federal blue box ammo. Bullet passed straight thru a big western grey kangaroo zero expansion.
Hand loaded 87gn VMAX, 3 chest shots to dispatch a mature Billy.
Hand loaded 95gn nosler balistic tip. Pig 1, 30kg weight bullet pass thru zero expansion, pig 2 same bullet exploded on the hide of a 50kg pig not mud encrusted large superficial wound. Pig 3 same bullet actually worked.

The problem with the 243 in Australia is most people select the wrong bullet for the game hunted. Most like the 87 grainers for general use on every thing and suffer failures. Loaded with a good 95gn SST or 100gn round nose it would probably be a fine cartridge within 200 yards for medium game but the majority of people don't see this.

When it first came out in a blaze of glory with Winchesters advertising it was supose to be the best thing to come down the turnpike since buttonup boots and sliced bread. It didn't live up to the velocity chain that Winchester made for it and they lowered the velocity.
I have loaded for a couple of 243s for friends working up to max charges and in no case could I get anywhere near the book velocity
87 grainers managed 2,900 fps in a tikka t3 light and just a tad over 3,000 in another rifle. The 100 grainers were struggling to get 2,800fps out of either rifle,closer to 2,700fps.
Book velocity for the 87s was 3,300 and the 100s were supposed to be 3,000 fps, a big difference.
I was at the range and a gent was trying out his new Sako 243 with factory Winchester 87 grainers and Hand loaded 87s. The factory loads chronoed at a bit over 2,800 and the Hand loads were only fractionally better.
My case is why would anyone want to use a cartridge that can't live up to its claims and advertising hype as a hunting cartridge with projectile that just don't work on their chosen game.
The little 250 Savage and mild mannered 257 Roberts have been around for a lot longer than the 243 and have been doing a better job than it for years but Winchester advertising killed them off and people started using the inferior cartridge because Winchester convinced people this is what they needed.
If you want to use a 243 by all means use it just stop asking me to finish off your wounded animals, I have done it to many time for hunters that are great shots.

One person I used to hunt with had a nice Tikka T3 lite in 243 that would shoot tiny little groups. He was give an old M17 converted to 25/06 that he asked me to look at. I glass bedded it, fitted a Timney trigger set at 2 pounds. That rifle grouped 2 inches at 200 yards. It was over 2 pound heavier than his beloved 243. After using the 25/06 he left the 243 at home and stated the 25 was far superior and killed how he was led to believe the 243 should. He has shot a 14 point red stag and a mountain brumby with it using federal 117grain blue box ammo and said if he had the 243 at the time he wouldn't have taken a shot at either.
Now you can understand my strong dislike for the 243, I just don't trust it and why I love my 25s for use in Australia, the 25s just seem to make Moe sense to me.
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

My experience with the .243 isn’t quite what Bob has experienced. Quite the opposite. But, I have to say, that when I was hunting, I matched the bullet to the game. 60 - 85 gr bullets were used on small animals, up to coyotes. Antelope up to Mule Deer, I used 95 - 105 gr bullets. I never went after anything larger than deer sized animals, and kept the distance within 350 yds when hunting them.
Eventually, I just used Remington Cor-Lokt 100 gr bullets for everything, because my rifle loved that bullet!
It would make rockchucks, porcupines, and prairie dogs flip up about 10ft in the air, and they would flop backwards at least that far.
Dead as door nails.
My .243 would barrel roll coyotes, even all the way out to 450 - 500 yds. Dead right there!
Now on antelope, it would make them expire very quickly.
Deer, when the bullet was placed in the vitals, heart & lung shots, would walk, at the most, maybe 15 feet. Most would expire within 10ft.
The .243 is a good cartridge, but you can’t use the lightweight bullets for larger game than what they were intended for. If you do, it will leave nasty, fist sized holes in your quarry, and then the animals will die an excruciating, slow death.
When the shot placement isn’t exact, the .243 isn’t a forgiving cartridge either. If you shoot a deer out past 350 yds, don’t expect it to make them drop and be DRT.
Actually, expect a wounded animal, and keep in mind, that when tracking it, the wound channel can close, and stop bleeding. Why, because the bullet probably didn’t have enough energy to impart hydrostatic shock. Then it just probably acted like a full metal jacket, and poked through and only made a 6mm hole.

Just remember, it’s fine for it’s intended purpose, and you use the proper bullets for the game being hunted.
If in doubt, just use a 100gr bullet for everything, and you won’t be disappointed. I wasn’t.
Keep it within 350 yds when hunting deer, or same sized game.


Hawk

 

[Muskox]

To keep it on topic: In Australia, I think it is aces.

I seem to remember a rule in Victoria about 270 and up for Sambar and Red deer. Maybe it was 7mm.

I only lived in Australia for 3 years, and I lived in Canberra so we hunted Victoria and New South Wales.

I think for the rest of Australia (not on big deer) it makes a lot of sense. Hogs in Australia are rarely huge, as a roo rifle it is tops as with good holowpoints it debrains a roo pretty well.

Dingos and fox it's aces as well.

Keep it in Australia and not on big deer and it is a top choice.

Not sure if John Butts from Wagga is still making his wild dog bullets or not, but that is what I would shoot for all my roo, fox and wild dog endeavors.

 

[R.M.C.]

I started hunting deer as a kid with my dad's .243. I used it on White tails and some small wild hogs and one unlucky Corsican ram very effectively. I shoot nothing but 100 grain bullets, although I'm sure the lighter solid copper ones would work great too. If its not too sharp an angle my .243 usually goes all the way through deer out to 200 yards or so. I've had no trouble with it when I'm doing MY PART lol . I have no doubt piles of moose and caribou have fallen to Bob's favorite caliber lol

 

[CraigV]

We shoot 243 in Georgia on pigs and deer with great success.

Hawk is spot on, right weight/type bullet for the right game, and shot placement. Learn the rifle, and take shots you are comfortable with.

 

[Ragman]

My experience with the .243 isn’t quite what Bob has experienced. Quite the opposite. But, I have to say, that when I was hunting, I matched the bullet to the game. 60 - 85 gr bullets were used on small animals, up to coyotes. Antelope up to Mule Deer, I used 95 - 105 gr bullets. I never went after anything larger than deer sized animals, and kept the distance within 350 yds when hunting them.
Eventually, I just used Remington Cor-Lokt 100 gr bullets for everything, because my rifle loved that bullet!
It would make rockchucks, porcupines, and prairie dogs flip up about 10ft in the air, and they would flop backwards at least that far.
Dead as door nails.
My .243 would barrel roll coyotes, even all the way out to 450 - 500 yds. Dead right there!
Now on antelope, it would make them expire very quickly.
Deer, when the bullet was placed in the vitals, heart & lung shots, would walk, at the most, maybe 15 feet. Most would expire within 10ft.
The .243 is a good cartridge, but you can’t use the lightweight bullets for larger game than what they were intended for. If you do, it will leave nasty, fist sized holes in your quarry, and then the animals will die an excruciating, slow death.
When the shot placement isn’t exact, the .243 isn’t a forgiving cartridge either. If you shoot a deer out past 350 yds, don’t expect it to make them drop and be DRT.
Actually, expect a wounded animal, and keep in mind, that when tracking it, the wound channel can close, and stop bleeding. Why, because the bullet probably didn’t have enough energy to impart hydrostatic shock. Then it just probably acted like a full metal jacket, and poked through and only made a 6mm hole.

Just remember, it’s fine for it’s intended purpose, and you use the proper bullets for the game being hunted.
If in doubt, just use a 100gr bullet for everything, and you won’t be disappointed. I wasn’t.
Keep it within 350 yds when hunting deer, or same sized game.


Hawk

100% correct. From the examples that @Bob Nelson 35Whelen gives it is apparent to me that it shouldn't be a criticism of the .243 which is an excellent deer round, but says something to the wisdom (or lack thereof) of the shooters that he knows that don't know enough to use the proper bullet. My family has never had a deer run farther than 50 yards after being hit with a 100 grainer and many were DRT. My Goddaughter has killed moose, elk and black bears with hers with great success by limiting her shooting distance.

 

[rdog]

@rdog
You make some valid points BUT I personally have seen to much game wounded with the 243 to deem it worth while as a hunting round.
Here are some examples
243, 87gn federal blue box ammo. Bullet passed straight thru a big western grey kangaroo zero expansion.
Hand loaded 87gn VMAX, 3 chest shots to dispatch a mature Billy.
Hand loaded 95gn nosler balistic tip. Pig 1, 30kg weight bullet pass thru zero expansion, pig 2 same bullet exploded on the hide of a 50kg pig not mud encrusted large superficial wound. Pig 3 same bullet actually worked.

The problem with the 243 in Australia is most people select the wrong bullet for the game hunted. Most like the 87 grainers for general use on every thing and suffer failures. Loaded with a good 95gn SST or 100gn round nose it would probably be a fine cartridge within 200 yards for medium game but the majority of people don't see this.

When it first came out in a blaze of glory with Winchesters advertising it was supose to be the best thing to come down the turnpike since buttonup boots and sliced bread. It didn't live up to the velocity chain that Winchester made for it and they lowered the velocity.
I have loaded for a couple of 243s for friends working up to max charges and in no case could I get anywhere near the book velocity
87 grainers managed 2,900 fps in a tikka t3 light and just a tad over 3,000 in another rifle. The 100 grainers were struggling to get 2,800fps out of either rifle,closer to 2,700fps.
Book velocity for the 87s was 3,300 and the 100s were supposed to be 3,000 fps, a big difference.
I was at the range and a gent was trying out his new Sako 243 with factory Winchester 87 grainers and Hand loaded 87s. The factory loads chronoed at a bit over 2,800 and the Hand loads were only fractionally better.
My case is why would anyone want to use a cartridge that can't live up to its claims and advertising hype as a hunting cartridge with projectile that just don't work on their chosen game.
The little 250 Savage and mild mannered 257 Roberts have been around for a lot longer than the 243 and have been doing a better job than it for years but Winchester advertising killed them off and people started using the inferior cartridge because Winchester convinced people this is what they needed.
If you want to use a 243 by all means use it just stop asking me to finish off your wounded animals, I have done it to many time for hunters that are great shots.

One person I used to hunt with had a nice Tikka T3 lite in 243 that would shoot tiny little groups. He was give an old M17 converted to 25/06 that he asked me to look at. I glass bedded it, fitted a Timney trigger set at 2 pounds. That rifle grouped 2 inches at 200 yards. It was over 2 pound heavier than his beloved 243. After using the 25/06 he left the 243 at home and stated the 25 was far superior and killed how he was led to believe the 243 should. He has shot a 14 point red stag and a mountain brumby with it using federal 117grain blue box ammo and said if he had the 243 at the time he wouldn't have taken a shot at either.
Now you can understand my strong dislike for the 243, I just don't trust it and why I love my 25s for use in Australia, the 25s just seem to make Moe sense to me.
Bob

Bob 100 grain bullets & a 24 inch barrel gets the job done.Why would a .257 dia 87 grain bullet be much better than 87 grain .243 bullet at the same velocity ? does .014 of an inch make that much difference ? comparing the 25/06 to the 243 is not realistic. The 243 W & the 250 Savage is a more realistic comparison.

 

[264]

Im a fan of the 243 , have had several one is on its third barrel. The failings of the cal come from factory ammo designed for varmints. I ran the 105 speers until I couldn't get them any more and shot plenty of medium game with them. My all-round load was 85gr Sierra HPBT and I still use this load today. Works well on pigs with placed shots.
My serious load is the 95gr partition , and 85gr partition. Several deer have been taken with these.
Great cal for fallow deer and hoggies, decent projectiles work well on reds.

My daughters learnt to shoot with a 223, and then progressed to the 243. Both have claimed a 243 each. Guess ill have to buy another.
Comparisons to the 25 cals , agree with the other comments re 250 savage, 257 Roberts . Very similar performance. 25-06 is in a different league.
My go to farm/ truck gun is a rem 700 heavy barrel 243, pretty hard to beat.
Used within the expectations/ limitations of the cal its a great performer.
Cheers Mick
rem 700

styer L 243 85r partition

Storm pretty serious boar 1 partition styer L, went 25m

Sage with here first boar

storms first fallow deer rem 243 95gr partition

 

[hawkeyesatx]

To keep it on topic: In Australia, I think it is aces.

I seem to remember a rule in Victoria about 270 and up for Sambar and Red deer. Maybe it was 7mm.

I only lived in Australia for 3 years, and I lived in Canberra so we hunted Victoria and New South Wales.

I think for the rest of Australia (not on big deer) it makes a lot of sense. Hogs in Australia are rarely huge, as a roo rifle it is tops as with good holowpoints it debrains a roo pretty well.

Dingos and fox it's aces as well.

Keep it in Australia and not on big deer and it is a top choice.

Not sure if John Butts from Wagga is still making his wild dog bullets or not, but that is what I would shoot for all my roo, fox and wild dog endeavors.

Sorry.
I don’t know much about game animals in Australia. I could only give examples of what we have here in the States.
I’m thinking dingos aren’t much bigger than our coyotes.
Do you all hunt wild goats there?
I know there are Water Buffaloes there, and Crocodiles. But I wouldn’t suggest hunting those with a .243!
I wouldn’t think a kangaroo would be much larger than the Mule Deer we have up in the NW States.
I took a really good sized whitetail buck several years ago, and it only took 3 steps, and down for the count!

Hawk

 

[WAB]

I shoot 100 gr speers in my .243. I don’t use it a lot but the 3 or 4 whitetail I’ve shot with it were one shot kills.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Anyone know if @Bob's account was hacked? I wasn't expecting to see the first 'like' on a .243 thread coming from him, if it was him.

I don't know about Australia and pigs but I know a few folks up here whose kids collected their first moose with a .243. I am not advocating for it being a moose/large game caliber but... it's all about bullet construction and shot placement.

@Tundra Tiger.
Yes I liked the comments that @rdog made. It will be an interesting topic that I have replied to. I may find it hard to bite my tongue on some comments.
Seeing you posted I will reply to you.

Your friends that got moose with a 243 must not have shot it either one. They must have jumped on its back and beat it to death with the but. That would work better than shooting the poor animal with that horrible little thing.
Bob

 

[264]

Aus game - water buff, banteng, scrubbers/ wild cattle, horses, donkeys, camels, goats , pigs, foxes rabbits , hares, dingo, feral cats and deer, sambar, red, fallow, rusa, hog.
Kangaroos and wallabies, taken on permit in most states. Different states different conditions.............
Roo harvesting cal rules 204, 222,223,22-250 243 most popular. have to be head shot. 204 may not be legal in all states.
Crocs are taken on damage or control permits, in the NT. Cities rules limit export.

 

[rdog]

Sorry.
I don’t know much about game animals in Australia. I could only give examples of what we have here in the States.
I’m thinking dingos aren’t much bigger than our coyotes.
Do you all hunt wild goats there?
I know there are Water Buffaloes there, and Crocodiles. But I wouldn’t suggest hunting those with a .243!
I wouldn’t think a kangaroo would be much larger than the Mule Deer we have up in the NW States.
I took a really good sized whitetail buck several years ago, and it only took 3 steps, and down for the count!

Hawk

Yes we hunt wild goats some of the big males are hard to kill, a 100 grain bullet & a well placed shot is
required, even poorly placed shots from a 270 or 30/06 is sometimes not a 1 shot kill, we have wankers in this country that use a 223 for every thing & just shoot them to bits with 55 grain fmj

 

[roverandbrew]

I have never seen an issue with 100 grain bullets on whitetail or hogs.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My experience with the .243 isn’t quite what Bob has experienced. Quite the opposite. But, I have to say, that when I was hunting, I matched the bullet to the game. 60 - 85 gr bullets were used on small animals, up to coyotes. Antelope up to Mule Deer, I used 95 - 105 gr bullets. I never went after anything larger than deer sized animals, and kept the distance within 350 yds when hunting them.
Eventually, I just used Remington Cor-Lokt 100 gr bullets for everything, because my rifle loved that bullet!
It would make rockchucks, porcupines, and prairie dogs flip up about 10ft in the air, and they would flop backwards at least that far.
Dead as door nails.
My .243 would barrel roll coyotes, even all the way out to 450 - 500 yds. Dead right there!
Now on antelope, it would make them expire very quickly.
Deer, when the bullet was placed in the vitals, heart & lung shots, would walk, at the most, maybe 15 feet. Most would expire within 10ft.
The .243 is a good cartridge, but you can’t use the lightweight bullets for larger game than what they were intended for. If you do, it will leave nasty, fist sized holes in your quarry, and then the animals will die an excruciating, slow death.
When the shot placement isn’t exact, the .243 isn’t a forgiving cartridge either. If you shoot a deer out past 350 yds, don’t expect it to make them drop and be DRT.
Actually, expect a wounded animal, and keep in mind, that when tracking it, the wound channel can close, and stop bleeding. Why, because the bullet probably didn’t have enough energy to impart hydrostatic shock. Then it just probably acted like a full metal jacket, and poked through and only made a 6mm hole.

Just remember, it’s fine for it’s intended purpose, and you use the proper bullets for the game being hunted.
If in doubt, just use a 100gr bullet for everything, and you won’t be disappointed. I wasn’t.
Keep it within 350 yds when hunting deer, or same sized game.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
The bullet failures I saw were at less than 200 yards. The kangaroo was about 75 yards, pig 1 less than 50, pig 2 probably around 90 yards and pig 3 close to 200.
Yes with the right bullet it may work. On small game you can smack it as fare away as you want but medium game I would limit my shots to less than 200. The little 243 just ain't got the oomph needed If'n you make even a little mistake.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@Muskox
I had a quick google for John Butts and Wild Dog Bullets but I'm guessing he's not producing these and was maybe pre internet days.
Some states require a minimum of .270" diameter bullet for some deer Sambar and possibly Red. That is or was a rule.when I was younger with no time or money I drew a conclusion that 7mm-08 might tick all the boxes. But alas .308 was more readily available and I bought a cheap .308 rifle.

Shooting Moose etc with .243 seems on the edge of its limits but kid shooters need to shoot their first somehow and with a rifle they shoot well.

I feel .243 is popular on Whitetail. With good shot placement and appropriate projectiles if should handle most of the smaller Aussie deer. Buffalo have been taken with .308 and .303 and likely smaller rounds too but culling from a vehicle or helicopter will be different to stopping a charge at 20 feet.

My wife has a .243, shot some pigs and plenty of foxes. She hates foxes they eat the Echidnas which are harmless critters that eat termites. They happen to be her favourite animals.

Dingoes, .243 should lay them out. Most dogs I've shot were with .223 head shots or chest shots see them dead right there.

Dingoes I'm guessing are the size of coyotes. In pictures Coyotes seem a little bigger than foxes , dingos are a fair bit bigger than foxes

I'm gonna do a bit with my wife's .243 for my own interest. I have a heap of Nosler 95gn Ballistic Tip hunting projectiles. To date they have performed as expected but I will do some testing of my own.

All that said I feel the 7mm-08 I have covers what a .243 would cover so I don't have one at present.