Trying to choose which caliber for a new double rifle

[Chris Sells]

375 doubles tend to be finicky.

I would argue that the 450/400 is a better choice.

 

[KJE81]

@KJE81 - I own several fine sporting rifles, from .500 NE to 6.5x54 MS. *And,* as the product manager of a premium rifle line within a large firearms company, I work with and have on loan every rifle and caliber you can imagine from .223 Win to .470 Nitro.

Yet, my go-to hunting gun has been and remains my .375 H&H Flanged. With it, I can take any animal that walks the Earth, from Africa's tiny ten to buffalo and even more. If versatility and a stellar track record on the world's game are what matters to you, you can't do better than a .375 H&H--and yes, in a double rifle or single shot the flanged version is absolutely fool-proof, in spite of how good the extractor/ejection systems for rimless shells have become in the last 20 years.

Besides the fact that it is not exactly a cartridge that you can find in factory-loaded form at your corner gun-store, it is available, it is absolutely a snap to reload and there are, oh, a million different kinds of bullets for it from practically every manufacturer. And bullets and brass are cheap and ALWAYS widely available, even during the bizarro-world time we're in (good luck finding a box of .450-400 without getting gouged!).

But the clincher is the perfect balance between hard-hitting, relative light weight, manageable recoil, and flat trajectory. With the 270-grain bullet--my favorite--you have pretty much the trajectory of a hot-rodded .308 Winchester with a 180 grain bullet, and you're surpassing the 4,000 foot-pound barrier with a rather generous margin. Load data--if you handload--is the same exact as for the belted version.

I frankly don't see any drawbacks to the other calibers that were recommended to you--IF YOU COULD HAVE AN UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF RIFLES. But if you're planning on investing big bucks on your ultimate one-gun worldwide hunter's toolkit, the .375 H&H has been the king since 1912 and I can't think of a single reason not to choose it for your project.

Thank you for your answer, this is exactly what I am trying to achieve, a one-gun worlwide hunters gun, and its very nice to read about your experience with the caliber

 

[KJE81]

I have a Heym 88b in 450/400. I don’t have any hunting experience with a Krieghoff.

But as for hunting plains game with 450/400 it’s a great caliber. I have taken everything from genet cat and above with mine. I have taken impala out to 150 yards or so. I have a detachable scope on mine which makes it quite versatile. The 450/400 is unbelievably pleasant to shoot, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it as a driven or stand hunt gun. It kicks less than several of my 30 caliber bolt guns. In the heat of the moment, I have doubled my 450/400 before, and even that was not unpleasant. 450/400 is excellent for buffalo and above adequate for elephant. If you’re looking for something that you can use at home and in Africa for just about anything you run across, and you only wanted one double, I don’t think you could go wrong with a 450/400 3 inch.

Thank you, it sounds like it is almost as versatile as the .375 Flanged. I guess that the bolt gun equivalent is the .404 Jeffrey vs .375H&H.

 

[KJE81]

.500/.416 is the best caliber for a client double in my opinion. When it comes to elephant it has amazing penetration. The recoil is manageable. It has a little flatter trajectory if you pair it with a scope for a little longer shots on plains game. I like the extra velocity over the .450/.400.

You are also not wrong in your thinking that the .375 in the smaller frame would be a more nimble hunting package. You might get more use out of it at home.

Thank you, after Tom Leonis post above I am feeling that I might go for the .375 Flanged, but the .500/.416 is a close second followed by the .450/.400. It really is quite hard to decide, but very nice to read about real life experiences with the calibers.

 

[KJE81]

I have researched this question with similar motives, and ... I decided on a double in .450-400 3". If I didn't already have a bolt action .375H&H and a O/U double in 9.3x74R I would have chosen a .375 H&H Flanged. You will shoot your new double much more at home and in practise sessions if it is chambered in a cartridge that is "shooter friendly". And the accuracy as a result of more practise will make it a better choice for truly big game than a very big bore that is difficult to shoot well because of recoil. So my suggestion is, .450-400 or .375 Flanged. Both are versatile, capable, and reasonable choices.

Thank you for your answer, right now I think that I am quite set on the .375 Flanged, mostly because of exactly the reasons you state above. It would be great if it were a caliber pleasant to shoot in order to get a lot of practice.

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks for the input, so you think that .450-400 is more versatile then lets say .500/.416 or do you mean .450-400 plus another set of barrels? By the way, since you have ordered a new set of barrels for your K-gun, I guess you know if it is necessary to send the gun to Krieghoff in order to fit the new set of barrels or not?

I am no expert here. I would just go with the .450-400. Quite honestly the .470 is something I just can not enjoy shooting. I can get ready and hunt with it with no problem but long term it is not ideal for me.
Yes it will go to Kreighoff for barrel fitting. I am hoping it will be here next month. I’ll report how my experience goes.
Philip

 

[Commish]

Thank you, it sounds like it is almost as versatile as the .375 Flanged. I guess that the bolt gun equivalent is the .404 Jeffrey vs .375H&H.

That is my understanding. I have a couple bolt 375s and a 404. And if you told me I needed to shoot a box of ammo in a shooting session from my DG rifles, the only one I would be able to finish with a smile on my face is the 450/400.

One of the commenters I would pay particular attention to is from Chris Sells above. He runs Heym USA, and is the reason that many of the American hunters on this site went with a 450/400 when it came down to choosing a double caliber from Heym. The combination of accuracy, recoil, and rifle weight makes it an ideal choice. As you can imagine Chris could have a double in just about any caliber he wanted and has shot all of them a lot. But when he goes to Africa, the double caliber he takes starts with 450 and ends with 400.

 

[rigbymauser]

I might be the only one suggesting the .450Nitro plus a set of extra barrels in .375Flanged. Both easy to reload for and tons of bulletchoices.

 

[IvW]

I might be the only one suggesting the .450Nitro plus a set of extra barrels in .375Flanged. Both easy to reload for and tons of bulletchoices.

And much more difficult to find ammo.....

 

[KJE81]

I am no expert here. I would just go with the .450-400. Quite honestly the .470 is something I just can not enjoy shooting. I can get ready and hunt with it with no problem but long term it is not ideal for me.
Yes it will go to Kreighoff for barrel fitting. I am hoping it will be here next month. I’ll report how my experience goes.
Philip

Looking forward to reading about your opinion on the gun then.

 

[Philip Glass]

Looking forward to reading about your opinion on the gun then.

I am counting the days!

 

[Beck]

I have a K-Gun in .470 Nitro. Bullet selection and case availability are better than .500 NE which guided my choice decision. In my opinion, a double should act as a "stopper" .375 flanged is not quite big enough for this roll, again in my opinion. Also I would worry about brass availability with the .416/.500. Also if the airlines lose your ammo you can always find .470 ammo in Africa

 

[spike.t]

I have a K-Gun in .470 Nitro. Bullet selection and case availability are better than .500 NE which guided my choice decision. In my opinion, a double should act as a "stopper" .375 flanged is not quite big enough for this roll, again in my opinion. Also I would worry about brass availability with the .416/.500. Also if the airlines lose your ammo you can always find .470 ammo in Africa

You can do plenty of hunting with the "medium bore".. doubles and have good time doing it....and other people use their bigger calibre doubles to hunt a variety of animals....so a double is not just a "stopper"....if you are a ph then yes it will be the reason it's carried...but same can be said for the bigger calibre bolt action rifles as well....

 

[KJE81]

I dont have any real need of a stopper since I will never be anything other then a client. But if swedish gun laws was less restrictive I would probably buy a large caliber aswell just to have it. But as it is now a .375 Flanged Magnum will probably be perfect for me, big enough to be legal in Africa while still not total overkill for swedish big game. This will mean that I will get to use it quite a lot and therefore hopefully be able to learn to handle it real well.

 

[ActionBob]

I think it is widely accepted that a 500/416NE is the equivalent of a 416 Rigby. 450/400NE is on par with a 404 Jeffrey, and although one would think the 375 Flanged should be equivalent to the 375 H&H Magnum, I believe in fact it is enough less to be a concern on the biggest and baddest critters. Unless you can hand load and push it enough.

Depending upon your abilities, any of those should have decent enough ballistics for a most Plains Game at fair distance. And certainly moose and bears. I shot a black bear at home last fall with a 404 Jeffrey and it dropped in it's tracks and I suspect would have had a bigger exit hole with a 30 caliber and a more explosive bullet. It was under 30 yards.

At any kind of longer ranges, especially on smaller critters, you are going to have real challenges getting both barrels on target. Rather if you want to shoot beyond 100 yards you probably need to focus on one barrel. Or get real good at knowing your gun, the load, and the poa of each barrel for x distance. And perhaps choose more aerodynamic bullets than are typically used for DG at close range.

There is no reason a double in those calibers shouldn't be capable of accurate shooting at ranges bolt guns are capable of in those similar calibers. It's just that if the barrels are regulated at 50 meters, they will not be at 200. And I for one have a hard time nowadays seeing good enough with iron sights. Although I did shoot targets out to 200 yards with my 470. But only the left barrel hit acceptably.

 

[KJE81]

I think it is widely accepted that a 500/416NE is the equivalent of a 416 Rigby. 450/400NE is on par with a 404 Jeffrey, and although one would think the 375 Flanged should be equivalent to the 375 H&H Magnum, I believe in fact it is enough less to be a concern on the biggest and baddest critters. Unless you can hand load and push it enough.

Depending upon your abilities, any of those should have decent enough ballistics for a most Plains Game at fair distance. And certainly moose and bears. I shot a black bear at home last fall with a 404 Jeffrey and it dropped in it's tracks and I suspect would have had a bigger exit hole with a 30 caliber and a more explosive bullet. It was under 30 yards.

At any kind of longer ranges, especially on smaller critters, you are going to have real challenges getting both barrels on target. Rather if you want to shoot beyond 100 yards you probably need to focus on one barrel. Or get real good at knowing your gun, the load, and the poa of each barrel for x distance. And perhaps choose more aerodynamic bullets than are typically used for DG at close range.

There is no reason a double in those calibers shouldn't be capable of accurate shooting at ranges bolt guns are capable of in those similar calibers. It's just that if the barrels are regulated at 50 meters, they will not be at 200. And I for one have a hard time nowadays seeing good enough with iron sights. Although I did shoot targets out to 200 yards with my 470. But only the left barrel hit acceptably.

Thank you for your input, allthought I normally find it hard to get more then one shot on game on distances over 150 meters, it still would be nice to know that the second shot also would be usable. Perhaps I need to rethink my strategy and go for a bolt gun in .375H&H instead? It is really hard to decide these things...

 

[ActionBob]

Thank you for your input, allthought I normally find it hard to get more then one shot on game on distances over 150 meters, it still would be nice to know that the second shot also would be usable. Perhaps I need to rethink my strategy and go for a bolt gun in .375H&H instead? It is really hard to decide these things...

Yes it is All part of the fun

 

[Woodcarver]

Thank you for your input, allthought I normally find it hard to get more then one shot on game on distances over 150 meters, it still would be nice to know that the second shot also would be usable. Perhaps I need to rethink my strategy and go for a bolt gun in .375H&H instead? It is really hard to decide these things...

There really is a simple solution...get both. Why it has taken 3 pages and 58 posts to see this clear message is surprising. A double with 9.3x74R barrels and a set of 7x65R, coupled with a CZ in 375 covers all the bases, and won't break the bank.

 

[Nhoro]

I dont have any real need of a stopper since I will never be anything other then a client. But if swedish gun laws was less restrictive I would probably buy a large caliber aswell just to have it. But as it is now a .375 Flanged Magnum will probably be perfect for me, big enough to be legal in Africa while still not total overkill for swedish big game. This will mean that I will get to use it quite a lot and therefore hopefully be able to learn to handle it real well.

375 flanged is not legal for buffalo or elephant in zimbabwe- it falls short of the energy requirement. 450/400 is legal so maybe factor that into your choice.

 

[KJE81]

375 flanged is not legal for buffalo or elephant in zimbabwe- it falls short of the energy requirement. 450/400 is legal so maybe factor that into your choice.

Is the regular .375 H&H legal?