Why Not A Double Rifle?

[spoonieduck]

Y

For me its the accuracy. What I'm after is a rifle that will hit a 4 inch circle at up to 400yrds. I know a bolt action will do that but not too sure if a double will?? Im looking at a 375 chambering and I ant to use it for both PG and DG. From what Dagaboy has said about the regulation I think the above can be possible!

You won't get 400 yard accuracy out of a double rifle. A good double is tuned in such a way that shots from both barrels will cross one another at a certain range. That particular range may vary from rifle to rifle but I believe is usually about 50 yards or a little more. These rifles are designed as relatively short range stoppers of charging game. The technical problems with having both shots precisely parallel each other, an inch or so apart, out to 400 yards are huge.

Kodiak percussion black powder double rifles have attempted to 'solve' the problem by having separate front and rear sights on the right and left barrels. Then both barrels must be sighted individually in which case it is possible to get some accuracy for either barrel out some distance. It means having to move your eye to sight each barrel separately, hardly a good solution for a desperate situation.

 

[norfolk shooter]

Y

You won't get 400 yard accuracy out of a double rifle. A good double is tuned in such a way that shots from both barrels will cross one another at a certain range. That particular range may vary from rifle to rifle but I believe is usually about 50 yards or a little more. These rifles are designed as relatively short range stoppers of charging game. The technical problems with having both shots precisely parallel each other, an inch or so apart, out to 400 yards are huge.

Kodiak percussion black powder double rifles have attempted to 'solve' the problem by having separate front and rear sights on the right and left barrels. Then both barrels must be sighted individually in which case it is possible to get some accuracy for either barrel out some distance. It means having to move your eye to sight each barrel separately, hardly a good solution for a desperate situation.

So what your saying is anything past 75 yrds I suppose has a good chance to live!?!

 

[spoonieduck]

I have a Kodiak percussion cap double but not a 'modern' double rifle. My thought, though, is that the crossing angle is very shallow so, in the case of a well made rifle, it should be possible to knock the socks off a large animal anywhere from the muzzle to well past 100 yards. I seriously doubt, however, that you could aim down the central front and rear sight and get within 4 inches of a mark at 400 yards with both barrels. Could it be achieved with one or the other barrel once you had sighted that particular barrel in? Maybe, but but the opposite barrel would hit some distance from the mark. Like I wrote, the Kodiak 'solved' the problem by placing rear and front sights on BOTH barrels.

 

[siml]

A double is expensive and not accurate after 50 yards, it is basically a stopper gun.

 

[Mike70560]

I believe there are a few misconceptions. Doubles are not regulated to "cross".

In a perfect world a bullet from each barrel would remain side by side to infinity. My doubles remain fairly consistent at 25, 50, and 100 yards and do not cross. It is important to have the proper load for correct regulation.

While not long range rifles doubles remain accurate way past 50 yards. The longest shot I have ever taken on an animal with a double was around 70 to 75 yards. The shot was offhand and dropped the buffalo in its tracks. I have no desire to shoot a buffalo any further and actually prefer them much closer.

However, off a solid tree or rock or something to lean against a shot at 125 to 150 yards is doable with my double on a kudu sized animal.

With a good scoped 375 double I would not hesitate to shoot a kudu at 175 to 200 yards, although it is better to be closer with any rifle.

 

[spike.t]

yup mike glad you came up with this as its down to the rifle being regulated correctly . as i put on this early on i have shot boar and a red stag at 140 or so yards with the irons on my 9.3x74r. it shoots both barrels at 50 yds the same at 100yds....and no convergence just perfect regulation

 

[AkMike]

Like I wrote, the Kodiak 'solved' the problem by placing rear and front sights on BOTH barrels.

Pedersoli did this because they didn't want to waste time and effort to regulate it. This dual sights is just a cheap way to get a "Genuine Double Rifle" out the door ASAP.

Just how accurate is this front stuffer at 400 yds?

 

[norfolk shooter]

I believe there are a few misconceptions. Doubles are not regulated to "cross".

In a perfect world a bullet from each barrel would remain side by side to infinity. My doubles remain fairly consistent at 25, 50, and 100 yards and do not cross. It is important to have the proper load for correct regulation.

While not long range rifles doubles remain accurate way past 50 yards. The longest shot I have ever taken on an animal with a double was around 70 to 75 yards. The shot was offhand and dropped the buffalo in its tracks. I have no desire to shoot a buffalo any further and actually prefer them much closer.

However, off a solid tree or rock or something to lean against a shot at 125 to 150 yards is doable with my double on a kudu sized animal.

With a good scoped 375 double I would not hesitate to shoot a kudu at 175 to 200 yards, although it is better to be closer with any rifle.

Thats what I thought too. Based on the above you could have one of the barrels set bang on with a scope and use it as a single shot out to what ever distance one wants to! Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[AkMike]

Yes if scoped one barrel could be set to use with the scope and the other one could be used with Kentucky windage guesstimate. BUT if you have a good regulation load and both barrels are set properly then the scope will work with both barrels.

 

[norfolk shooter]

In terms of "good" regulation out of the more affordable btands (blaser, chapuis and krieghoff) who do you feel does the better or best job on the regulation?

 

[norfolk shooter]

just laser ranged a tree stump at 220 yrds. If I could get a DB to shoot within 4 inches at that distance I'm getting one!!! The way I see it if you cant get close enough to your quarry find a new sport. I've got a touch rusty at my ranging skills

 

[southernidahohunter]

I have always wanted a double rifle but for now they are far too expensive for me. Taking money off the table, I see no reason why a good 450/400 or 400/360 could not be used to great effect on North American game.

Recently, I came across Baily Bradshaw rifles (bradshawgunandrifle.com) and he offers a falling block Farquharson style double rifle that according to his website, he will build in any rimmed cartridge up to .500 nitro. I think the falling block is a cool twist on the double rifle and could be made doubly cool, as well as perfect for North America, by the .338-74 Keith.

 

[AkMike]

If you order a Bradshaw expect several years of lag time.

 

[southernidahohunter]

If you order a Bradshaw expect several years of lag time.

No worries. Still far outside my price range. Just thought they were cool rifles.

 

[CTDolan]

In my opinion, the only reason to not consider a double for North America is cost. As for accuracy, one-load regulation and all, I see it as a non-issue. If you want to "assassinate" (as Cal Pappas says, and rightly so) your game at 300-500 yards, then yeah, buy a bolt action, fit it with a scope, and get on with your life. But, if you wish to HUNT your game, to get within moderately close range and enter into the romance of the experience, then a double can (and will) only add to the moment. After all, what could be better than to stalk (or call) a moose to under 40 yards (bowhunters do it all of the time...no problem there), before drilling a lead bullet through the lungs? I'd take that finality over one provided by a 7mm Rem Mag at 150 yards, any day.

Chris

P.S. - Cannot afford a double rifle? Well, neither can I. No worries, though, just opt for a falling block single. Cannot afford one of the better, of those? Well, neither can I. But again, no worries, just appeal to Ruger and their No. 1. No, it is not a piece of gunmaking art (despite what some might wish, might say), but it is solid and is offered in some calibers which speak of the same romance, namely the 450/400 NE (if only they would get rid of the stupid aluminum trigger and stupid aluminum quarter rib (since when does aluminum belong on a rifle of such pretense?), give it a decent rear sight, and fit a safety which did not interfere with function, it'd be ever better).

 

[Jcordell]

CTDolan you jolted my memory with your mention of the 450/400. When I first started studying double rifles over ten years ago it was like trying to learn a foreign language. Much of the terminology was similar to what I knew when it came to firearms, but it was also so very different. On face, action bar, barrel lumps, rib extension, Greener crossbolt, rising bite, regulated, boxlock, sidelock, round action and so on and so forth. I was raised on lever action rifles, semi-autos pistols and rifles, revolvers and slide action shotguns. The world of the double seemed very arcane, but was also fascinating.However I've learned. I've never fired a double rifle, but I've still studied them. If I could afford one I wouldn't hesitate. Incidentally I read a rather interesting article a few years ago about an experienced African hunter from....I believe it was Spain....who finally satisfied a lifelong dream to take an Alaskan Kodiak Grizzly Bear. His weapon of choice was a fine English double rifle (I forget the maker - sorry) in 450/400. He got his bear and nobody thought he was being unrealistic in bringing such a firearm. It worked like a champ. I remember thinking how odd that a guy who had hunted Africa would have always wanted to go to Alaska, but then I realize it's all relative. For him Alaska would have seemed exotic. Africa us just across the Strait of Gibralter. Anyway doubles are amazing in my opinion.

 

[CTDolan]

Jcordell, your post is wonderful, truly wonderful. And you are correct, the language of the trade (English gun-making) is peculiar, and arcane. It wasn't until I, an American, came to know of English culture first hand that it all really began to make sense. Sure, I knew the terms, prior to, but the reason for, even given their historical context, had seemed strange.

With regard to Alaska and Africa, each is wild and exotic, in their own very special way.

With regard to bear, I can hardly think of anything more appropriate than a double 450/400. To me, it's damn near perfect!

 

[8 x 60]

I responded that the cost is what keeps me from owning one. At this point in my life, i would rather hunt more than own a double. Don't get me wrong, i think they are the cat's ass...I just don't have the dough right now and would rather spend it hunting.

I feel I must say that cost does not preclude the ownership of a fine double rifle. It may if you are one of the many who believe they are only the preserve of of those who can afford a fine British large bore double. There are many, many excellent double rifles on sale up to 9.3 x 74 on the net. Most of which seem to be in the USA.!! From my understanding calibres such as the 7 x 65 or 8 x 57 are pretty much adequate for most N A game? These are very often on sale and if you don't mind a European gun at the right price what's stopping you? . I have one (see avatar) and I love it.

Best 8 x 60

 

[slad68]

Only seen this for the first time.

I am happy with my bolt actions.
I have nothing against a double rifle but I will never get myself one.

Not because of any other reason than " I have not grown up with a double rifle" .
I have always said that for a PH shooting a double is like a yuppie riding his skateboard. It is something you have to do from a young age. Most of all charges that have gone wrong and PH's were carrying a double is because they were trying to bolt the double.

I have bought DJ a little 410 S/S shotgun so that he can get used to a double rifle, should he ever decide to buy one for himself.

Blessings to all

 

[sierraone]

I liked that idea of buying a youngster learning to hunt a double .410 to ingrain the idea of a double rifle later! Never thought of that!!!