Practicing long crossers

[Sharing246]

Any tips on practicing long crossers , I usually practice by starting at 20 yards and get comfortable consistently breaking targets , then move back 5 yds at a time , then I get to a point I’m guessing 45 yds that I just don’t hit them at all ? Shooting Lm and mod choke , with 1 1/8 oz number 7.5 ..
Thanks in advance

 

[BRICKBURN]

Know your distance exactly. Certainly for practice.
What fps?

 

[WAB]

Focus on the bird
Focus on the bird
Focus on the bird

[emoji41]

Don’t track the bird with the gun mounted. Trust the computer between your ears and shoot as soon as the gun is mounted.

I was putting too much weight on my right foot (I’m right handed). My friend who is one of the top instructors in the business had me shoot 45 yard crossers balancing on just my left leg, right leg raised like a stork. My swing improved and I was crushing birds.

Oh and your load/choke is more than capable of that shot.

 

[BeeMaa]

It all starts with having a consistent mount with good foot and body position.

Focus on the bird as @WAB said, not the gun. Mount the gun. The gun will follow your eyes. When you get the right sight picture, hit it. It sounds easy, but I know how difficult it can be.

Your chokes and load are capable of breaking clays out to 60 yards with some solid practice.

If you are really looking to improve your overall shooting, seek the help of a professional. Your game will improve 10x than trying to do it on your own. It’s worth the money.

 

[HankBuck]

Any tips on practicing long crossers , I usually practice by starting at 20 yards and get comfortable consistently breaking targets , then move back 5 yds at a time , then I get to a point I’m guessing 45 yds that I just don’t hit them at all ? Shooting Lm and mod choke , with 1 1/8 oz number 7.5 ..
Thanks in advance

@Sharing246 - are you practicing for Sporting Clays, competitions, or just better wing shooting? It sounds like what you are doing is a good start and you will likely make progress…but you will also likely reach a point where you no longer improveIf and/or will not be consistent. Consider getting a “Lesson”. An NSCA Level I or Level II Coach can be found listed by State including contact info. Whether a casual shooter, hunter, or competitor - a Lesson from certified instructor will be very helpful and worth the $$ ($100-$300). I wish I had a few lessons when I was in my 20s before some bad habits became ingrained…the ducks & pheasant I missed, the ammo & time I wasted trying to get better on my own….could’ve bought myself a Safe full of Perazzi’s & Kreigoff‘s !! Might sound like a Big Step but google NSCA, Lessons, see a couple videos on Utube —- it’s not a big deal to take a lesson and the results should be positive

 

[WAB]

Be very selective of who you take lessons from. Know their style and ensure that it fits with the type of shooter you aspire to become. Personally, most of my instruction has been at H&H. IMO they are the gold standard, but it is not cheap to get to London for lessons.

There are very few NSCA instructors that I would use. A couple good US based instructors:

Dave Barnes at Maui Sporting Clays
Bryan Bilinski at Fieldsport in Traverse City. Bryan is also one of the few in the US I would trust with a fitting.

 

[BeeMaa]

I've heard good things about Gil & Vicki Ash of OSP, but have no personal experience with them.

 

[mark-hunter]

For long targets I would take full choke on upper barrel.

 

[BeeMaa]

Funny you mention chokes, because manufacturers vary widely on what CYLINDER bore is for a 12 bore (or any other bore for that matter). Cylinder bore is what all the other chokes will be based on, usually getting smaller in diameter by .005" with each step. Here are two examples.

Browning Invector Plus
CYLINDER .740 (5 notches)
SKEET .735
IMPROVED CYLINDER .730 (4 notches)
LIGHT MODIFIED .725
MODIFIED .720 (3 notches)
IMPROVED MODIFIED .715 (2 notches)
FULL .710 (1 notch)
EXTRA FULL .700
TURKEY .650 - .680

Beretta Optima Plus/Benelli Crio Plus
CYLINDER .725 (5 notches)
SKEET .720
IMPROVED CYLINDER .715 (4 notches)
LIGHT MODIFIED .710
MODIFIED .705 (3 notches)
IMPROVED MODIFIED .700 (2 notches)
FULL .695 (1 notch)
EXTRA FULL .685
TURKEY .640 - .675

Constriction is how far below cylinder bore the choke you are using is, and is measured in thousandth's of an inch. This is normally expressed as choke nomenclature...aka...MOD, IM, SKEET...etc. But one manufactures MOD can be another manufactures SKEET. This is why I believe that it would be more accurate to discuss what diameter choke is being used rather than the constriction or choke nomenclature. That's never gonna happen, but it would be nice.

.015" difference between CYL bores (and all the others too) is a huge difference. Patterning your shotgun with the load & choke combination you intend to use is important. Pattern density at distance, how high or low does it hit with a specific sight picture...etc. There is a lot to learn at the pattern board. This also explains why my Benelli SBE3 patterns so much tighter than my friends Browning Maxus when using the "same" chokes.

I won't get into what they do in the UK because it only gets more confusing when discussing chokes expressed as a fraction. I'll leave that to @WAB.

 

[HankBuck]

Be very selective of who you take lessons from. Know their style and ensure that it fits with the type of shooter you aspire to become. Personally, most of my instruction has been at H&H. IMO they are the gold standard, but it is not cheap to get to London for lessons.

There are very few NSCA instructors that I would use. A couple good US based instructors:

Dave Barnes at Maui Sporting Clays
Bryan Bilinski at Fieldsport in Traverse City. Bryan is also one of the few in the US I would trust with a fitting.

@WAB - I think you are unfamiliar with the number of excellent NSCA instructors here in the US and especially for anyone who is “Below a C class” competition shooter. Almost any Hunter or recreational Clays shooter could benefit for an NSCA Level 1 instructor and You can find NSCA Level 1 instructors in every State and most could improve a novice or average shooter. Perhaps you’ve had a bad personal experience or are a Nationally ranked competitor with a strong fact based opinion. I have a different view (I’m Not Nationally ranked and Not a top competitor) but would advise someone considering lessons to “get started” asap - then IF you do not care for your instructors “personality” or do Not make improvements - find another instructor. Many of the BEST Clays shooters in the World are now located in the US and that includes Olympic, Sporting Clays, Skeet, etc.. Certainly very fine shooters in UK regarding Sporting Clays but they no longer dominate the way they did 10 years ago. My opinion - get lessons from an NSCA instructor early, before bad habits become ingrained or a shooter gets discouraged and gives up.

 

[WAB]

@WAB - I think you are unfamiliar with the number of excellent NSCA instructors here in the US and especially for anyone who is “Below a C class” competition shooter. Almost any Hunter or recreational Clays shooter could benefit for an NSCA Level 1 instructor and You can find NSCA Level 1 instructors in every State and most could improve a novice or average shooter. Perhaps you’ve had a bad personal experience or are a Nationally ranked competitor with a strong fact based opinion. I have a different view (I’m Not Nationally ranked and Not a top competitor) but would advise someone considering lessons to “get started” asap - then IF you do not care for your instructors “personality” or do Not make improvements - find another instructor. Many of the BEST Clays shooters in the World are now located in the US and that includes Olympic, Sporting Clays, Skeet, etc.. Certainly very fine shooters in UK regarding Sporting Clays but they no longer dominate the way they did 10 years ago. My opinion - get lessons from an NSCA instructor early, before bad habits become ingrained or a shooter gets discouraged and gives up.

Sorry if my post offended, it was certainly not meant to. I do have a background competing at the highest levels, although that was a number of years ago. Your point on the improved success of US shooters is accurate, although I give far more credit to the influx of shooters/instructors from Europe than the efforts of the NSCA. IMO the NSCA sold its soul when they allowed the use of high gun in competition.

I view the NSCA program as very rigid, basically tearing down a shooter to rebuild them in their image. IMO this is a flawed approach. A top tier coach watches a shooter and makes subtle adjustments to move them in the right direction over time. It takes serious training to be able to do this. A close friend is an instructor at Holland & Holland. He trained full time for six months prior to taking out his first client, and he was a world class shooter when he began that training! Compare that with the relatively easy path to Level 1 NSCA certification and you can understand the difference.

There are great instructors in the US, but there are also those that do more harm than good. NSCA certification does not guarantee good instruction. My friend at Holland & Holland has no certification and yet is one of the best instructors in the business.

I got into quite an argument with one of the top NSCA instructors a number of years ago. You would know his name. He told me what sight picture to use to break a crosser. I told him I would shoot 6 feet behind if I did that. He insisted, I shot. He asked where I hit, I told him six feet behind. He asked what sight picture I executed and I told him. He then proceeded to berate me and tell me that was impossible because no one’s eyes were that fast. I asked if he wanted me to break the bird, to which he said yes. I crushed the bird and gave him the sight picture. He was furious and wouldn’t believe me. This should never have happened. A proper coach watches and listens to a student and makes subtle adjustments to improve performance.

In another occasion I was working with Dan Carlisle. Dan helped me tremendously on hard going away quartering birds. His suggestions allowed me to break the bird much more quickly allowing more time on the second bird. I would put Dan on the list of great US instructors.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

For what you want, I would advise station 4 skeet, shoot it low gun, feet together, and fluidly step into the shot as you raise the gun. Ensure the gun fits you properly (i.e. like a glove!). When you have the station down pat, move back five yards (if range allows), then five more.

 

[mdwest]

In another occasion I was working with Dan Carlisle. Dan helped me tremendously on hard going away quartering birds. His suggestions allowed me to break the bird much more quickly allowing more time on the second bird. I would put Dan on the list of great US instructors.

Im fortunate in that Dan is local to DFW.. For Sporting Clays, I consider him one of the best in the business.. when my youngest daughter first got into competitive shotgun shooting a couple of years ago, we sent her to Dan a couple of times for lessons... her game improved dramatically within just a few hours of spending time with Dan...

another really good option in the DFW area is Tim Cudia.. although Tim is much more a skeet guy than trap, sporting clays, etc.. he's a hall of famer, former member of the US Navys team, former national and state champion several times over, etc..etc.. and an excellent coach as well.. What Dan did to help improve my daughters sporting clays game, Tim did to help her with skeet... she now dusts my butt pretty much every time we shoot.. and I consider myself to be pretty good with a shotgun...

Tim is largely focused on training young, HS aged shotgun athletes though.. Im not sure if he takes any adult students at all..

 

[HankBuck]

Sorry if my post offended, it was certainly not meant to. I do have a background competing at the highest levels, although that was a number of years ago. Your point on the improved success of US shooters is accurate, although I give far more credit to the influx of shooters/instructors from Europe than the efforts of the NSCA. IMO the NSCA sold its soul when they allowed the use of high gun in competition.

I view the NSCA program as very rigid, basically tearing down a shooter to rebuild them in their image. IMO this is a flawed approach. A top tier coach watches a shooter and makes subtle adjustments to move them in the right direction over time. It takes serious training to be able to do this. A close friend is an instructor at Holland & Holland. He trained full time for six months prior to taking out his first client, and he was a world class shooter when he began that training! Compare that with the relatively easy path to Level 1 NSCA certification and you can understand the difference.

There are great instructors in the US, but there are also those that do more harm than good. NSCA certification does not guarantee good instruction. My friend at Holland & Holland has no certification and yet is one of the best instructors in the business.

I got into quite an argument with one of the top NSCA instructors a number of years ago. You would know his name. He told me what sight picture to use to break a crosser. I told him I would shoot 6 feet behind if I did that. He insisted, I shot. He asked where I hit, I told him six feet behind. He asked what sight picture I executed and I told him. He then proceeded to berate me and tell me that was impossible because no one’s eyes were that fast. I asked if he wanted me to break the bird, to which he said yes. I crushed the bird and gave him the sight picture. He was furious and wouldn’t believe me. This should never have happened. A proper coach watches and listens to a student and makes subtle adjustments to improve performance.

In another occasion I was working with Dan Carlisle. Dan helped me tremendously on hard going away quartering birds. His suggestions allowed me to break the bird much more quickly allowing more time on the second bird. I would put Dan on the list of great US instructors.

@WAB - clearly you know your stuff and I was Not offended by your post - my poor writing skills and/or “blunt” style can obscure my point sometimes. Whatever person Coached you and spoke to you like that was “wrong” and that would’ve been my last lesson with him (even if he was right about my shooting). I also agree with you about how the U.S. was wrong to modify Sporting Clays and took away the “Low Gun” requirement. I heard they found it too difficult to determine what was Low Gun and what was Not - even though Olympic Skeet has No trouble defining and enforcing “Low gun”. As a result of that change - scores went up, courses then had to be made more difficult and target presentation “longer”, so much so that Now many targets almost require a pre mounted or “cheat” mounted gun to break consistently— Fortunately there is still FITASC. I started at skeet in my late 30s with some bad habits too ingrained to ever really go away. Shot NSSA for a few registered shoots, made it to B class but never was a top shooter and discouraged that 94/100 wasn’t even close to winning my Class. Anything less then 100/100 and you were Not competitive. So I Switched to Sporting Clays and enjoyed mid to high 70s….which is where I’m still at and stuck as D or C class (where I belong). I took one lesson last year and was amazed at my progress in 30 minutes - this guy had me breaking targets “fast”, faster then ever before and his ability to communicate just a minor change in my mount & stance, hold point —- got me to a Break point 20 feet sooner then I would break normally. I plan to take another lesson this year and would like to go once every month or two —- wish I did this 30 years ago. My Son shoots far better then me, he also only took one lesson (in April) then went into Worlds at M&M the other week and earned 6 punches total during several events he shot during the week of events.…and it moved him up to B Class. For the World Side x Side event he Won All classes (except Master) shooting an 84 with my 122yr old LC Smith… and placed 8th overall. He was also 3rd in 12ga Castellani Cup “C” class , overall a good showing. But when we shot the Main event (1500 shooters) - 200 targets over 3 days for the World Championship WOW - that course was on a different Planet !!: Digweed finished 10th and shot 170 something, Powell won it and was one of only two shooters to break 18O. My Son was shot only 105 and me “well below that”….but had a great time and saw the best-in-the-World - and know why I’ll NEVER be one of them !! Was lots of Fun. I will still set up a lesson, love to learn and think it will help.

 

[HankBuck]

For what you want, I would advise station 4 skeet, shoot it low gun, feet together, and fluidly step into the shot as you raise the gun. Ensure the gun fits you properly (i.e. like a glove!). When you have the station down pat, move back five yards (if range allows), then five more.

Would add - shoot station 4 “gun mounted” and after breaking 8 to 10 in a row “consistently” then try low gun. Just my method for learning. I like the “stepping back” 5 yrds but most clubs won’t allow that —- maybe if no other shooter around

 

[BRICKBURN]

Analyze the target path from start to stop.
Falling away, dropping, climbing, fading toward, wind consequences.
Most shooters I have ever watched
On longer birds; mount their
Gun too early, don’t
Pick a sweet spot for the range being Shot, mostly shoot over
Top and behind.
My guess is your “same target “. Is not the same at all
Good luck.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Analyze the target path from start to stop.
Falling away, dropping, climbing, fading toward, wind consequences.
Most shooters I have ever watched
On longer birds; mount their
Gun too early, don’t
Pick a sweet spot for the range being Shot, mostly shoot over
Top and behind.
My guess is your “same target “. Is not the same at all
Good luck.

True enough. I find that if I start missing shots on the skeet range, I'm usually mounting the gun too fast. Settle down, take my time, relax, and make it a smooth acquire, step, rise, mount, and shoot.

I advise newbies to shoot low gun. Pulling the target gun mounted provides too much opportunity to overthink the shot, i.e. look at the gun instead of the target. Had one young fella who couldn't break a dozen on either of his first two rounds. He was going to give up. But I noticed he smoked targets on station eight. That told me two things: his gun fit him and he actually could shoot. I gave him a box of shells for another round on condition that he shoot every station but #8 low gun. He smirked. "I'm not good enough to do that." Okay, then give me the shells. He acquiesced ... and catapulted his score into the twenties!

Again, shooting well from low gun requires a gun that fits perfectly ... and keeping your eye on the target ... ONLY on the target. Shooting from low gun, whether on the range or in the field, typically does not provide enough time for the eye to return to the barrel. Once the shooter starts aiming his gun barrel at moving targets, he's lost. I missed a target on station 7 last week. Man, that is embarrassing. Helen Kellar could dust both single targets on #7. So next round I put the old A5 under my arm, safety on, and pulled the singles. Poof, poof. For the #7 pair I did shoot from the ready position. Station 8 I usually shoot high gun because I'm old and don't see well. Station eight really doesn't provide enough time to aim the gun, even when it's shouldered. That's why I knew that young fella really could shoot.

 

[WAB]

@WAB - clearly you know your stuff and I was Not offended by your post - my poor writing skills and/or “blunt” style can obscure my point sometimes. Whatever person Coached you and spoke to you like that was “wrong” and that would’ve been my last lesson with him (even if he was right about my shooting). I also agree with you about how the U.S. was wrong to modify Sporting Clays and took away the “Low Gun” requirement. I heard they found it too difficult to determine what was Low Gun and what was Not - even though Olympic Skeet has No trouble defining and enforcing “Low gun”. As a result of that change - scores went up, courses then had to be made more difficult and target presentation “longer”, so much so that Now many targets almost require a pre mounted or “cheat” mounted gun to break consistently— Fortunately there is still FITASC. I started at skeet in my late 30s with some bad habits too ingrained to ever really go away. Shot NSSA for a few registered shoots, made it to B class but never was a top shooter and discouraged that 94/100 wasn’t even close to winning my Class. Anything less then 100/100 and you were Not competitive. So I Switched to Sporting Clays and enjoyed mid to high 70s….which is where I’m still at and stuck as D or C class (where I belong). I took one lesson last year and was amazed at my progress in 30 minutes - this guy had me breaking targets “fast”, faster then ever before and his ability to communicate just a minor change in my mount & stance, hold point —- got me to a Break point 20 feet sooner then I would break normally. I plan to take another lesson this year and would like to go once every month or two —- wish I did this 30 years ago. My Son shoots far better then me, he also only took one lesson (in April) then went into Worlds at M&M the other week and earned 6 punches total during several events he shot during the week of events.…and it moved him up to B Class. For the World Side x Side event he Won All classes (except Master) shooting an 84 with my 122yr old LC Smith… and placed 8th overall. He was also 3rd in 12ga Castellani Cup “C” class , overall a good showing. But when we shot the Main event (1500 shooters) - 200 targets over 3 days for the World Championship WOW - that course was on a different Planet !!: Digweed finished 10th and shot 170 something, Powell won it and was one of only two shooters to break 18O. My Son was shot only 105 and me “well below that”….but had a great time and saw the best-in-the-World - and know why I’ll NEVER be one of them !! Was lots of Fun. I will still set up a lesson, love to learn and think it will help.

A friend of mine led the British women’s skeet team to four Olympics. She characterized skeet as a negative game. Miss one bird and you’re out. I remember one championship where I went straight in one of the gauges. At that time the shoot offs were doubles across the middle. Six of us went into the shoot offs. I won with my 76th bird. She was right, it is a negative game! Sporting clays before high gun and FITASC are totally different. Everyone misses, you are always in the hunt.

 

[HankBuck]

A friend of mine led the British women’s skeet team to four Olympics. She characterized skeet as a negative game. Miss one bird and you’re out. I remember one championship where I went straight in one of the gauges. At that time the shoot offs were doubles across the middle. Six of us went into the shoot offs. I won with my 76th bird. She was right, it is a negative game! Sporting clays before high gun and FITASC are totally different. Everyone misses, you are always in the hunt.

@WAB i think Olympic skeet is far harder then American skeet and it’s a Low gun game - faster targets and a lighter 12 ga shell required (7/8oz of lead). American Skeet has lost 75% of its popularity and very few NSSA events held vs 30 years ago…it is a dying sport and Sporting Clays has replaced it as the number One clays game. In NJ the number of shooters competing in the NJ State Chapionships each year is down by 75% or more —- no longer 100s of competitors in each event. Seems to still remain popular in Texas.

 

[WAB]

@WAB i think Olympic skeet is far harder then American skeet and it’s a Low gun game - faster targets and a lighter 12 ga shell required (7/8oz of lead). American Skeet has lost 75% of its popularity and very few NSSA events held vs 30 years ago…it is a dying sport and Sporting Clays has replaced it as the number One clays game. In NJ the number of shooters competing in the NJ State Chapionships each year is down by 75% or more —- no longer 100s of competitors in each event. Seems to still remain popular in Texas.

And yet we don’t learn. We dumb down sporting clays just like we previously dumbed down skeet.