35 Whelen

Personally, I think 250 grains is optimal for the medium .35 cal cartridges.

I like the 35 Whelen but I would probably choose my 375 H&H to shoot bullets heavier than 250 grains.

Hoytcanon,
I certainly understand choosing the 250 for large bodied moose and bears but I wonder if a 225 would be more versatile for deer, elk and African antelope?

Bush Buck said:

I like the 35 Whelen but I would probably choose my 375 H&H to shoot bullets heavier than 250 grains.

Hoytcanon,
I certainly understand choosing the 250 for large bodied moose and bears but I wonder if a 225 would be more versatile for deer, elk and African antelope?

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I my experience, the 250 is just about perfect in the .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag and the Sambar. The 225's are nice in the .358 Win and 200's in the .35 Rem. I don't care for the concept of always shooting the heaviest for caliber bullets... it simply makes the cartridge less versatile, while at the same time adding virtually nothing to the terminal effect on game. I think matching the bullet weight to the case volume is the most practical and versatile approach... this usually means choosing something in the middle, not too light and not too heavy.

hoytcanon said:

I my experience, the 250 is just about perfect in the .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag and the Sambar. The 225's are nice in the .358 Win and 200's in the .35 Rem. I don't care for the concept of always shooting the heaviest for caliber bullets... it simply makes the cartridge less versatile, while at the same time adding virtually nothing to the terminal effect on game. I think matching the bullet weight to the case volume is the most practical and versatile approach... this usually means choosing something in the middle, not too light and not too heavy.

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I see where you are coming from and tend to agree but, there is always a BUT. I have found the 225 gr in the Sambar great on pigs to Red Deer. Anything bigger, like Sambar Deer (Indian Elk) I go for the 250's and would do so with the Whelen.

I feel the 275 grain bullets would be like using 286 grain bullets in the 9.3X62 and for the Whelen to 358RUM are the go for heavy and/or big bodied animals. Remembering Taylor claimed he couldn't pick the difference between a 350 Rigby and 375H&H (I think he was talking about penetration, will have to re-read his book) when both were using 300/310 grain projectiles and back then the 350R was loaded to Whelen performance. But, there we go again another BUT, I don't think anybody will be hunting Elephant or Rhino with a Whelen. Lion yes and I would use the 275 out of a Whelen, Sambar or larger 35cal for this.

Bush Buck said:

I like the 35 Whelen but I would probably choose my 375 H&H to shoot bullets heavier than 250 grains.

Hoytcanon,
I certainly understand choosing the 250 for large bodied moose and bears but I wonder if a 225 would be more versatile for deer, elk and African antelope?

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@Bush Buck
Fortunately the Whelen is very versatile.
Mine will put bullets from 200gn to 275gn to the same poi at 100yards. At 200 they are still very similar but after that the 225s reign out to over 400.
The 250-275 have a very similar trajectory out to 300
And the 310 with the same sight setting is spot on the bulls eye at 100
The Whelen is capable of launching a big 310 grainer at 2,455 fps which ain't that far behind the 375 H&H. The 35 cal 310 has a very similar SD as the 350gn 375.
The Whelen is a handloaders dream and getting the best out of it is an easy job.
A ton of game was shot with the 350 Rigby and it was highly prized for its versatility in its day.
Game ain't got any tougher in the last 100years but hunter seem to require more power to do the same job on the same animals.
I still have trouble understanding why cartridges of yore killed animals admirably years ago but now days are considered borderline.
Maybe we should concentrate more on putting a properly constructed bullet of adequate calibre in the right spot more often.
A 35 cal soft points thru the lungs/heart will kill an animal just as dead as a 40-45 cal bullet in the same spot. Neither will work if'n y'all shoot em in the foot.
Gun writers and advertising bullshit have a lot to answer for in my book.
Why is it daddy's little girl can kill a truck load of game with her puny little 257 Roberts but daddy needs a big 300-338 magnum to do the same job. That's right some gunwriters told him he needs it to be a man but his daughter is killing the same game just as dead with her itty bitty 25 cal.
Target showing a group shot with my Whelen using bullets from 200-310 grains. The top right hand shot is a 200gn ftx the one in the bull is a 310gn Woodleigh soft points. The rest are various 225s,250s and a 275 thrown in for fun.
This is from a cold clean barrel and it wasn't allowed to cool between shots. At the end of the session you couldn't touch the barrel it was that hot.
To me this is how a rifle should shoot wether it's clean dirty, cold or hot no matter what the calibre
Bob

Rule 303 said:

I see where you are coming from and tend to agree but, there is always a BUT. I have found the 225 gr in the Sambar great on pigs to Red Deer. Anything bigger, like Sambar Deer (Indian Elk) I go for the 250's and would do so with the Whelen.

I feel the 275 grain bullets would be like using 286 grain bullets in the 9.3X62 and for the Whelen to 358RUM are the go for heavy and/or big bodied animals. Remembering Taylor claimed he couldn't pick the difference between a 350 Rigby and 375H&H (I think he was talking about penetration, will have to re-read his book) when both were using 300/310 grain projectiles and back then the 350R was loaded to Whelen performance. But, there we go again another BUT, I don't think anybody will be hunting Elephant or Rhino with a Whelen. Lion yes and I would use the 275 out of a Whelen, Sambar or larger 35cal for this.

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@Rule 303
Y'all don't need a 35 or bigger for sambar in my book. To me even my 444 marlin loaded with 280gn Woodleigh RNSP @ 2,350fps was over kill for them.
The last one I shot at a bit over 100 yards was with the Victoria minimum a 270 win hand loaded with 130gn ACP monos. It was bang flop. No tracking, hole in one side and bigger hole out the other side plus a blood spray Stevie Wonder could follow on a dark night. I know a person that uses an old 303brit loaded with 215 gn Woodleigh RNSP @2,200 fps and his deer fall down dead when he shoots them no problems.
They ain't armour plated, tough yes but with no lungs/ heart they ain't going far.
Bob
Bob

Bob you are correct, though generally a bigger cal can drop them quicker. A mate hit a Sambar stag from 15mt's with a 220 grain proj from a 30-06. In one side out the other, some bone and bright bubbly blood was there, so at least one rib and both lungs hit. Stag was never found even with 15 blokes looking for it and the following 2 weekends with dogs. Larger calibre or much lighter bullet and stag may well have been found not too far from the spot.

My sambar stag took a hit with 250 grain Woodleigh, 180mts with a very stiff crosswind - so I was lucky, missed the heart, but broke both front legs. he traveled 300mts porpoiseing off its back legs. I wouldn't have believed it if I had not seen it. Yes if had been a heart shot or lung shot he would not of traveled that far. A hind I shot, same rifle and load from 20 meters , through the heart ran up hill for about 60mts turned down hill for 30 then fell over.

Yep they are not bullet proof but are tough and can cover distance even with a heart or lung shot, especially if they are already spooked. I know of quite a few with good hits with cals upto and including 300WM that were lost. One of the reasons I put these down to was poor bullet selection.

hoytcanon said:

I my experience, the 250 is just about perfect in the .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag and the Sambar. The 225's are nice in the .358 Win and 200's in the .35 Rem. I don't care for the concept of always shooting the heaviest for caliber bullets... it simply makes the cartridge less versatile, while at the same time adding virtually nothing to the terminal effect on game. I think matching the bullet weight to the case volume is the most practical and versatile approach... this usually means choosing something in the middle, not too light and not too heavy.

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I think you are correct that a 250grn projectile is the optimal heavy weight for the .350 Rem Mag. I’ve developed a super-accurate load in my M660 using Speer’s 250grn SPs over Varget.

I’ve also played with Hawk’s 300grn .358” RT bullet which is a long bullet (comparatively speaking). My issue with the M660’s 2.810” mag box is obviously reaching a viable COAL that can still feed and chamber without having to seat the bullet so deep as to have little usable room left for powder … or a serious compression issue.

The .35 Whelen doesn’t have this issue with 300grn slugs. Hence, my interest in testing a 275grn .358” bullet in my rifle.

Woodleigh lists his 275grn SP bullet as measuring 1.217”, if I recall correctly. Need to call my contact at Hawk bullets for a measurement of their 275grn RT. The shorter of the two might work better in my 1:16 twist barrel.

Jack Stevens said:

I think you are correct that a 250grn projectile is the optimal heavy weight for the .350 Rem Mag. I’ve developed a super-accurate load in my M660 using Speer’s 250grn SPs over Varget.

I’ve also played with Hawk’s 300grn .358” RT bullet which is a long bullet (comparatively speaking). My issue with the M660’s 2.810” mag box is obviously reaching a viable COAL that can still feed and chamber without having to seat the bullet so deep as to have little usable room left for powder … or a serious compression issue.

The .35 Whelen doesn’t have this issue with 300grn slugs. Hence, my interest in testing a 275grn .358” bullet in my rifle.

Woodleigh lists his 275grn SP bullet as measuring 1.217”, if I recall correctly. Need to call my contact at Hawk bullets for a measurement of their 275grn RT. The shorter of the two might work better in my 1:16 twist barrel.

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I load the 250 Partition to 2.850" in my Ruger M77 MKII. My best 250 Partition loads are with W748, 58.0 grains for a standard load, 60.0 when guiding for grizzlies.

Jack Stevens if the Hawk bullet is a round nose it will be shorter than the Woodleigh.

Rule 303 said:

Jack Stevens if the Hawk bullet is a round nose it will be shorter than the Woodleigh.

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Hawk’s RT = “Round Tip.” So more like a Spire Point that’s less “pointy” and rounded at the tip but not a classic RN (round nose). I’m supposed to get a call back tomorrow from my Hawk contact. I’ll post the response as to length here for comparative purposes.

I’m not where I can access my notes on comparative .358” bullet lengths right now so I’ll have to check later. But I believe Hawk’s 300grn RT bullet was a bit longer than Woodleigh’s RN. (I have Woodleigh’s Reloading Manual).

hoytcanon said:

I load the 250 Partition to 2.850" in my Ruger M77 MKII. My best 250 Partition loads are with W748, 58.0 grains for a standard load, 60.0 when guiding for grizzlies.

View attachment 679086View attachment 679087

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How do those 250grn Speer spitz HCs shoot?

POI is virtually identical to the Partition. I works up loads with the Speer, zero the rifle with the Speers and then shoot a couple groups with the Partitions to confirm POI before heading to the bush. The Speers are dandy for black bears and deer, but for moose and big angry things, I prefer to load the Partitions, good and peppy.

250 gr Nos PT or better! 'Had a 350 Rem Mag (but the case is so short the V just doesn't make sense over the 35W using over 200 gr slugs.) 'Also love my 338-06 A-Sq with 225-300 gr bullets. 300s being the old Barnes Original SP (Way over .330 SD going 2440 fps.) Collected a Livingstone's Eland with it. Per Ty Herring at Barnes, keep the distances under 150 yds, as it's neither a 375 or other Magnum (or bigger bore) cartridge!

Jack Stevens said:

How do those 250grn Speer spitz HCs shoot?

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Very good in my Whelen, they are what I use. Their Grand Slams pulled tighter groups and to me, were a better bullet. But can not get them now. I bought up big-for my usage- on the HC when things looked doubtful for their 358 cal. When, if I run out of them it will be Woodleigh's.