Rigby / Holland & Holland / Westley Richards

I’d have Joel Dorleac build my custom rifle any day. Even the finest London gunmakers outsource many elements, action, bluing, engraving, etc. Only WR really does most things in-house. I entirely believe WR is now without hesitation ‘the’ only true fine gunmaker in the UK
 
The thing I like about Belgian best-grade guns is similar to American bests. We were not the kingpins that set the standards of excellence in style when these guns were made. As such, both American and Beligan aesthetic was catering to the English styling until they both evolved slightly on their own based from that basis.

Put another way, Belgian guns look British and avoid the typically gaudy and ostentatious look of some germanic weapons. Rose & Scroll, Acanthus leaf, vines, foliate, dollar bill, green knight, fleur-de-lis, whatever the styles they are all very understated and dignified, even if slightly louder than a British best gun.

I'd take it any day of the week over the proverbial zoo of dogs and stags and grouse and acorns adorning most german guns, or ducks and pheasants shaped like bowling pins on the Spanish weapons. Just a preference.
 
fiocchi said:
I’d have Joel Dorleac build my custom rifle any day. Even the finest London gunmakers outsource many elements, action, bluing, engraving, etc. Only WR really does most things in-house. I entirely believe WR is now without hesitation ‘the’ only true fine gunmaker in the UK
Click to expand...

Hi Fiocci,

The LAST part of your statement in regards to Westley Richards is what I believe as well. I wholeheartedly admit that I am biased in favor of Westley Richards but that bias is, for me, a well earned one. WR Is the only English Rifle Maker that only builds to order and only builds Bespoke Rifles, and shotguns of course. They are also the only maker that has not been sold out (some on numerous occasions) to another corporation. ALL the the other English makers build for the rack so to speak and even fewer do real commissions In-House. WR does not build for the rack at all, and It will also take you a 5 year wait minimum to have a Rifle made currently. I have actually been to the WR factory, spent the whole day there. also went through the AMAZING Leather department!! (Bespoke as well, and will make anything one could want) What I saw was that everything is done In-house. Of course some items might be sourced, but from what I saw very little, if any , depending on the needs of the commission. There is another building next to the WR factory that is seriously capable of producing any and ALL parts needed if they want too, including one of a kind items as needed. In my opinion WR produces the finest rifles available. I agree that they are the only true Bespoke Maker left in England . But again I am biased and everyone will have their own view of the matter and spend their resources accordingly. I for one have made my choice.

JPetroni
 
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here's a typical entry grade new manufactured 375 by rigby sans any engraving I think its a safe bet for along term rifle , while not fond ofnthe look of the scope system I know it works , maybe order 1 withoutvthe front square bridge and have rigby put on there English H&H style mount , maybe stain the stock a bit darker and you will have a known brand name that won't depreciate as much as a 1 off custom build
 
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I do not consider my guns an "investment" except in the sense that they are an investment in my personal pleasure in using them. I am mainly a bird hunter and enjoy fine shotguns, but I have hunted bigger game since I was a boy - a long time ago. Regardless, whether it is a side X side English SLE classic or a center-fire Mauser or Model 70 by a current maker, they are all a pleasure to own and shoot.

I always buy the best guns I can afford and never look back. My heirs can worry about the market value of my guns.
 
Tanks said:
One thing to consider is that Rigby, for all purposes, is a brand new company after the trademark was left available in the UK and was snapped up by the current owners. H&H and Wesley Richards have been around as a contiguous company much longer. Rigby still makes bespoke rifles but they are not the Rigby of old.
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Had this talked about on other threads....Marc started working for Paul when he owned rigby...learned a lot from him....also John rigby great (not sure how many greats) granddaughter works there making the rising bite double....Holland were owned by various companies including the chanel lot...before being bought by beretta....Westley owned by the clode family who's base is engineering from memory...could be wrong...so none are really original .....
 
Rell said:
My three top choices ….

1. Reto Buhler, I believe he actually makes many of the WR rifles …

Buehler Custom Sporting Arms LLC

Best quality custom guns built to order.
www.customsportingarms.com

2. Joe Smithson, functionally perfect in my limited experience.
www.smithson-gunmaker.com

JP Smithson Gunmaker

Maker of Fine Custom Hunting Rifles
www.smithson-gunmaker.com

3. Dorleac & Dorleac, uses primarily vintage Mauser actions and makes rifles that rival the best of the golden area London best.

DORLEAC & DORLEAC - L'Atelier de Chasse - Perpignan

L'Atelier de Chasse DORLEAC & DORLEAC fabrique, restaure et vend à travers le monde des carabines et armes fines de la meilleure qualité.
www.dorleac-dorleac.com www.dorleac-dorleac.com

I have more confidence in these makers then any of the London Houses.
Click to expand...
Max kudos to Reto Buehler. He made a beautiful 375 Wby for me on a GMA action, beautiful exhibition grade stock. Accurate. Perfect. I don't think you can find a finer rifle.
 
I have a 1920s H and H rifle. Whilst it is beautifully balanced, the trigger is awful. One thing to watch is that repairs undertaken by H and H are very expensive. I was told to consider it a way of preserving an investment.

If I was to buy something like that now, I would seriously look at both Daniel Fraser, for a bespoke British built rifle with some heritage at a very fair price or a new Purdey with a carbon fibre bedded stock. The reviews of them in the UK shooting press are superb.
 
I remember everyone's panties getting in a wad when Jeff Miller bought Rigby and opened it in Paso Robles, California.

Jeff was a bad businessman, but they made great bolt rifles. Their doubles were made on Merkel actions, which was kind of strange.

I agree with Spike, there is no provenance of longevity of name. Relaunching a company that is dead does not give you 200 years of name brand. It is a new company.


Here is what was published here before:

Will The Real John Rigby Ple… Weatherby Nation Hits Milest…The storied English gunmaker John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has been operating out of Paso Robles, Calif. for 12 years, however, a new John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has surfaced in London after the original corporate entity was abandoned in Great Britain.

We'll refer to the pair as "California Rigby" and "London Rigby" for the sake of clarity. Only "California Rigby" claims to be the legitimate John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. dating to Ireland in 1735. "London Rigby" merely claims to have filed a corporation under the name John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. after "California Rigby" neglected to file a trademark or incorporate the company in England.

This whole affair dates back to 1997 when Neil Gibson of Texas bought the historic record books, intellectual property and other rights to the John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. marque from Paul Roberts of J. Roberts & Sons of London .

J. Roberts & Sons bought the rights in Rigby in 1984 and changed its name to John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. However, in 1997 when Roberts sold the Rigby rights to Gibson, Roberts abandoned the company name of Rigby and refilled under its original name of J. Roberts & Sons, thereby allowing the company name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. to lapse. It ceased to be a corporate entity in 2002.

"California Rigby" came into being when gunsmith Geoff Miller of Rogue River Rifleworks in California signed a note to purchase the Rigby intellectual property assets from Gibson, however, Miller never paid Gibson.

Gibson subsequently sold the note to Marc Halcon, a longtime firearms industry figure, who foreclosed on Miller. Rather than face foreclosure, Miller filed bankruptcy. As a result of the bankruptcy, a new investor paid off Halcon's note. Miller continues to make guns under the John Rigby name in an arrangement with the current note owner.

Meanwhile, up steps Mark Neal of London, an engineer by profession and an avid shooter by avocation.

Neal launched a project to build a modern version of what is widely regarded as the finest double rifle action ever made, the Rigby "rising bite" or Bisel action. Working with gunsmiths in the trade as well as other professional engineers, Neal dissected the rising bite action and rend ered it into a CNC program. His intention is to offer rising bite rifles and shotguns under the corporate name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd., which he has registered as a company in England.

I checked the British Trademark Registry and indeed no marque for John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. existed before June 11, 2009 when Miller belatedly filed an application, subsequent to Neal's launching of "London Rigby."

Neal explained his position on "London Rigby" in an e-mail to me, "I should briefly explain who we are as people. We are a collection of fairly ordinary people, engineers, gun-makers, shooters and hunters, gamekeepers and others. We are devoted to the Company that we have formed and it is our greatest wish that it succeed in bringing Rigby back to England and placing it again with the greatest names in gun-making. To this end we have worked tirelessly for more than a year.

"From the way that the knowledgeable shooting public have received us, overwhelmingly in the main, we feel that we have every chance in doing so."

Meanwhile, "California Rigby" issued this press release on Aug. 7, 2009:
"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Inc. is the only company that has the legal right to use the John Rigby trademarks and logo worldwide. We are advised by our legal counsel in both the U.K. and in the U.S. that the London-based company's unauthorized use of our John Rigby name is a clear infringement of our registered trademark rights and is clear grounds for a passing-off claim as well. We intend to initiate legal action forthwith seeking an injunction, damages and attorney's fees for this willful and egregious violation of our intellectual property rights."

On the same date (Aug. 7, 2009), Roberts issued the following statement:
"It has come to my attention that a new entity has formed under the John Rigby & Co. name and are now attempting to offer John Rigby guns and rifles under the trade name John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd.

"Under the circumstances, I wish it to be known that the new entity John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd. is in no way associated with the old firm, its staff or its products. Equally they have no connection with any guns and rifles manufactured and sold by J. Rigby & Co in the USA."

This prompted Neal (of "London Rigby") to offer the following:
"We state for the record, as we have done many times over the past few days, John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with a company of a similar name registered in the United States nor, heaven help us, would we wish to claim any.

"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with any former company bearing that name. Again, we have stated this categori cally before."
 
Muskox said:
I remember everyone's panties getting in a wad when Jeff Miller bought Rigby and opened it in Paso Robles, California.

Jeff was a bad businessman, but they made great bolt rifles. Their doubles were made on Merkel actions, which was kind of strange.

I agree with Spike, there is no provenance of longevity of name. Relaunching a company that is dead does not give you 200 years of name brand. It is a new company.


Here is what was published here before:

Will The Real John Rigby Ple… Weatherby Nation Hits Milest…The storied English gunmaker John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has been operating out of Paso Robles, Calif. for 12 years, however, a new John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. has surfaced in London after the original corporate entity was abandoned in Great Britain.

We'll refer to the pair as "California Rigby" and "London Rigby" for the sake of clarity. Only "California Rigby" claims to be the legitimate John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. dating to Ireland in 1735. "London Rigby" merely claims to have filed a corporation under the name John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. after "California Rigby" neglected to file a trademark or incorporate the company in England.

This whole affair dates back to 1997 when Neil Gibson of Texas bought the historic record books, intellectual property and other rights to the John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. marque from Paul Roberts of J. Roberts & Sons of London .

J. Roberts & Sons bought the rights in Rigby in 1984 and changed its name to John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. However, in 1997 when Roberts sold the Rigby rights to Gibson, Roberts abandoned the company name of Rigby and refilled under its original name of J. Roberts & Sons, thereby allowing the company name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. to lapse. It ceased to be a corporate entity in 2002.

"California Rigby" came into being when gunsmith Geoff Miller of Rogue River Rifleworks in California signed a note to purchase the Rigby intellectual property assets from Gibson, however, Miller never paid Gibson.

Gibson subsequently sold the note to Marc Halcon, a longtime firearms industry figure, who foreclosed on Miller. Rather than face foreclosure, Miller filed bankruptcy. As a result of the bankruptcy, a new investor paid off Halcon's note. Miller continues to make guns under the John Rigby name in an arrangement with the current note owner.

Meanwhile, up steps Mark Neal of London, an engineer by profession and an avid shooter by avocation.

Neal launched a project to build a modern version of what is widely regarded as the finest double rifle action ever made, the Rigby "rising bite" or Bisel action. Working with gunsmiths in the trade as well as other professional engineers, Neal dissected the rising bite action and rend ered it into a CNC program. His intention is to offer rising bite rifles and shotguns under the corporate name of John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd., which he has registered as a company in England.

I checked the British Trademark Registry and indeed no marque for John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd. existed before June 11, 2009 when Miller belatedly filed an application, subsequent to Neal's launching of "London Rigby."

Neal explained his position on "London Rigby" in an e-mail to me, "I should briefly explain who we are as people. We are a collection of fairly ordinary people, engineers, gun-makers, shooters and hunters, gamekeepers and others. We are devoted to the Company that we have formed and it is our greatest wish that it succeed in bringing Rigby back to England and placing it again with the greatest names in gun-making. To this end we have worked tirelessly for more than a year.

"From the way that the knowledgeable shooting public have received us, overwhelmingly in the main, we feel that we have every chance in doing so."

Meanwhile, "California Rigby" issued this press release on Aug. 7, 2009:
"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Inc. is the only company that has the legal right to use the John Rigby trademarks and logo worldwide. We are advised by our legal counsel in both the U.K. and in the U.S. that the London-based company's unauthorized use of our John Rigby name is a clear infringement of our registered trademark rights and is clear grounds for a passing-off claim as well. We intend to initiate legal action forthwith seeking an injunction, damages and attorney's fees for this willful and egregious violation of our intellectual property rights."

On the same date (Aug. 7, 2009), Roberts issued the following statement:
"It has come to my attention that a new entity has formed under the John Rigby & Co. name and are now attempting to offer John Rigby guns and rifles under the trade name John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd.

"Under the circumstances, I wish it to be known that the new entity John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd. is in no way associated with the old firm, its staff or its products. Equally they have no connection with any guns and rifles manufactured and sold by J. Rigby & Co in the USA."

This prompted Neal (of "London Rigby") to offer the following:
"We state for the record, as we have done many times over the past few days, John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with a company of a similar name registered in the United States nor, heaven help us, would we wish to claim any.

"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers) Ltd. has no connection with any former company bearing that name. Again, we have stated this categori cally before."
Click to expand...
I’ve wondered that about this website (your first part about relaunching a name):


Legit? Never hear anything about Gibbs..
 
Certus said:
I’ve wondered that about this website (your first part about relaunching a name):


Legit? Never hear anything about Gibbs..
Click to expand...
Never seen this before either. I don't know anything about it. That is very interesting.

The Rigby provenance from both sides is bullshit. But in the UK this seems to be an acceptable thing to do.

When I return to the United States in 2-3 years. I want to start making single shot Heeren, Farqueson and Hagn actions. I am a long way from any kind of production, but I have a couple designs on CAD mapped out.

I will be not be using the names of any of them.
 
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