1908 Brazilian Mauser action

[Quaticman]

I have the opportunity to pick one up dirt cheap. Are they any good? Nothing wrong with having a "spare" action lying around for your next build right?

 

[USMA84DAB]

You haven't bought it yet?

 

[mdwest]

Define cheap.

And if you aren’t going to buy it... tell me where it is so I can snatch it up

 

[Quaticman]

$325.00 CDN

 

[mdwest]

That’s a good price..I usually grab good mauser actions any time I see them below $250 USD.

If it were somewhere in the US I’d be grabbing a couple myself at that price


I’ve got builds I’ve done on Brazilian, Argentine, and VZ24 actions.. all have been great guns..

My most recent 30-06 build was done on a Brazilian...

 

[bruce moulds]

they are soft and set back, even with milspec 7x57 type pressures.
you will have constantly increasing headspace.
look for fn 30/06 military mausers made post war.
good heat treatment, and smmoth to operate.
bruce.

 

[mdwest]

Where does that information come from Bruce?

My understanding is all original Brazilians were made at the DWM factory in Germany, which is highly regarded for making some of the best pre-war mauser actions ever, and then exported to Brazil.

After 1922 Brazil bought some FN mausers.. also highly regarded...

And in the 30’s they bought some VZ24 BRNO mausers.. also highly regarded..

Brazil itself never made any mausers.. all the rifles in their military arsenals came from very good manufacturing facilities...

I know several gunsmiths in the US known for doing magnum and/or big bore conversions like ER Shaw actually prefer Brazilian actions over many others...

I know the Spanish mauser (small ring) has a reputation for being soft.

I have never heard of anything DWM,FN, or BRNO being soft..

 

[bruce moulds]

some gunsmiths who are prepared to call a spade a spade,have written of this, and one of Australia's former premier gunsmiths told me that himself.
due to some who promote and own these actions, it has become politically incorrect to mention the problem.
maybe dwm had some quality control issues then who knows.
there are plenty of other choices out there where you can play it safe.
FNs being the pick of them.
the mauser action relies to some degree for safety on having a degree of softness so it will stretch/bend rather than shatter.
case hardening reduces wear from function.
bruce.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I've been watching this one but sticking with what I have already (Zastava), at least for now.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/867106233

I'm +1 on never hearing about manufacturing quality issues with these that make them problematic in 7X57mm and higher power cartridge use. A brief overview.

https://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=265-Brazilian-Model-1908-Mauser-Rifle-(Mfg-by-DWM)

Mauser has made recent mention of an upcoming Renaissance.

https://www.mauser.com/en/mauser-98/mauser-98-dwm.html

 

[Mr. Zorg]

As an engineer I find this Gun Digest article summary of the various M98 action manufacturing alloys and heat treatment strategies quite interesting for a succinct treatment.

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/mauser-the-most-important-rifle

My work experience was more focused on combination pressure-temperature-chemical effects on various alloys and hardness testing relative to embrittlement and subsequent stress failures over time. Basic aqueous solutions service such as caustic soda, potassium hydroxide, and alkanoamines were my earliest areas of assignment, shortly following hydrofluoric acid service. There were no site metallurgists or specific corrosion engineers employed at the first refinery I worked at after obtaining my degree, for the full 10 years I worked there. I got OJT through "It can't possibly supposed to look like this!" during maintenance shutdowns planned and unplanned. This event near Chicago took place during my schooling and I was first assigned to this similar area fresh out of university.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Romeoville_petroleum_refinery_disaster

As the Guns Digest article indicates, higher hardness in and of itself isn't always indicative of higher quality and / or greater safety throughout. Specifics of application for purpose and attention to upper as well as lower limts is key.

 

[Areaonereal]

I have a 280 built on a Brazilian action back in 1985 with a ERShaw barrel and it is very accurate (3 shot less than 1 inch at 100 yds with 160 Noslers)and have hand loaded to max loads with no problem. Only concern is lock time is a bit slow, but typical of the breed. Have never used it in Africa ....custom rifle with beautiful English walnut and fluer d li checkering, just can not bring myself to using it.

 

[bruce moulds]

zorg,
stick to your zastava or mk 10 and be happy.
bruce.

 

[Stuart Satterlee]

I've had DWM receivers re-case hardened at Blanchard Metal Processing in Salt Lake City Ut. With very good and lasting results.

 

[bruce moulds]

stuart,
yes I believe all manner of mauser actions can benefit from correct modern technology heat treatment.
it is a fairly technically advanced subject to get into.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

some gunsmiths who are prepared to call a spade a spade,have written of this, and one of Australia's former premier gunsmiths told me that himself.
due to some who promote and own these actions, it has become politically incorrect to mention the problem.
maybe dwm had some quality control issues then who knows.
there are plenty of other choices out there where you can play it safe.
FNs being the pick of them.
the mauser action relies to some degree for safety on having a degree of softness so it will stretch/bend rather than shatter.
case hardening reduces wear from function.
bruce.

That is very close to the way I understand it. The distraction about various older Mausers usually has something to do with the effect of cumulative set back of the lugs. And strength gets defined in various ways. Even the older small ring "Spanish" Mausers that get some of that bad press are VERY difficult to blow up in classic terms and visions of fractured, split receivers or burst chambers. I've seen many more modern firearms suffer that type catastrophic failure than any of the older Mausers. I think the oversimplified term "brittle" is appropriate. I have first hand experience in trying to blow them up- in simple terms, they tend to give but not break.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I've read through the Gun Digest article I posted the link to, twice to see if there's anything I missed the first time, to be thorough. This part is of note, for me at least.

"Brazil, at one time or another, for example, ordered quantities of rifles from virtually all the major European manufacturers and in 1954 began to manufacture receivers at Itajuba Arsenal. So when one says “Brazilian Mauser,” he may be describing a Model 1908 29-inch long rifle, similar to the German Gew.98 or K98a revision built by DWM; a Czech 08/34, almost identical to the Nazi K98k but with a 22-inch barrel and in 7mm; the Oberndorf-built M1935 long rifle, essentially a later clone of the original Model 1908, the “2nd Variation” 08/34; various rifles shortened to 24 inches and barrels rebored to 30-06 and appropriately modified; the M1954, a 30-06 rifle receiver built as such, but completed with parts left over from all kinds of surplus rifles, including German 98ks; or as many as a dozen other fairly obscure variants ordered in small quantities for special purposes or from firms unwilling to advance normal credit to the Brazilian government and therefore delivered only on a cash in advance basis."

Is it possible someone is using the term "Brazilian Mauser" with a broad brush, without distinction as to M1908 vs the .30-06 M1954 which the article points out the primary specification was a firm that would accept the terms the economy of Brazil could provide with respect to payment?

I've seen a .358 Norma Magnum rifle built on a M1908 Brazilian DWM action for example but I was unaware of the Brazilian M1954 before reading this article. I'm no certified expert in Mausers but more than the typical South Texas boy. I made my share of milsurp purchases in the 1980's and 1990's and did my share of reading up on things before the days of the internet to be an educated participant with my money, and yet hadn't run across explanation of the M1954 Brazilian until this thread sparked my interest to double-check what I thought I remembered.

I'm quite happy thus far with my rifles with the commercial LK M70 bolt action. Turned down bolt handle, hinged magazine floorplate, and factory D&T for scope bases are pretty convenient features for my tastes but if $325 CDN is a good price the one on Gunbroker.com for $189 US sounds like a great deal with the current 1.4 conversion factor.

 

[RayAtkinson]

That 1908 Briz action is one of the best if not the best action ever..$325 is a steal, some Ive seen sold for $800..Don't let it get away from you, the worst you can do is double your money on it....Im assuming its rust and pit free..

 

[JLF]

Excellent action ... the master gunsmith who taught me the trade classified them as very good ..

 

[nztimb]

Excellent action ... the master gunsmith who taught me the trade classified them as very good ..

The one I used for the 7x57 I built was the tightest and slickest my GS had worked on.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Would this rifle suffice for a build into another cartridge? It’s at a local gun shop and they say it’s 98 percent. I haven’t looked at it yet.