1917 Enfield action

[John J]

I dont know anything about this action. I believe this is the action A Square used? It is a 30 06 is it suitable for a big bore conversion? Thanks John

 

[Professor Mawla]

I dont know anything about this action. I believe this is the action A Square used? It is a 30 06 is it suitable for a big bore conversion? Thanks John

Good evening @John J
In my humble opinion , no finer action than the Enfield Model 1917 could ever exist . I own a custom built .458 Winchester Magnum , which was built on a Winchester Enfield Model 1917 action in 1973 . I have been using that same rifle for Problem Animal Control work , ever since 1976 . And it has yet to let me down .

These are true Magnum length control round feed actions , easily able to accommodate rounds as large as the .500 Jeffery or .500 A Square . If you however , wish to build a .505 Gibbs ; then I would highly recommend the Pattern 14 Enfield action . Because less work needs to be done to it , than with an Enfield Model 1917 action .

A word about these actions is requisite . They cock on closing , although many gentlemen have their gunsmiths convert their Enfield Model 1917 action sporting rifles to cock on opening . My custom .458 Winchester Magnum still has it’s original cock on closing feature . And I personally prefer it that way .

 

[CharlesT]

I beg to differ. Both the P14 and P17 are, to the best of my knowledge, cock on close.

Dayton Traister and possibly others offer kits to convert from COC to COO.

CT

 

[Rule 303]

I beg to differ. Both the P14 and P17 are, to the best of my knowledge, cock on close.

Dayton Traister and possibly others offer kits to convert from COC to COO.

CT

Correct.

You also need the longer Dayton Traister trigger.

I have one converted to 358/338RUM.

Winchester, Eddystone (a subsidiary of Remington) and Remington made them. The Rem and Eddystone parts are fully interchangeable for calibre. Winchester, apparently knew better, until the ordnance board read them the riot act. So, some parts on early Winchesters are not interchangeable with the others. I think it is in dimensions only but not sure.

Remington sportarised them as the Rem 30. As Professor Mawla says, you can convert them to accept just about any round short of a 50BMG.

 

[Professor Mawla]

I beg to differ. Both the P14 and P17 are, to the best of my knowledge, cock on close.

Dayton Traister and possibly others offer kits to convert from COC to COO.

CT

@CharlesT
Yes , thank you so much for correcting me . I was typing so quickly that I did not bother to check my post , before replying . The Remington Model 30 Express ( which uses an Enfield Model 1917 action ) employs a cock on opening feature .

 

[Lee in Texas]

Another thumbs up for the 1917 Enfield and Remington Model 30 Express. I have them in 6.5-280 AI, 264 WinMag .30-‘06, 300 WinMag, 338 WinMag, and 358 Norma Magnum. There is also one at the gunsmith that got put on hold. There’s a good chance it will be a 6.5x55 or 6.5-06 for Mom.

 

[Rule 303]

I should have added if the cartridge head is any bigger than a 404J you will need the P14 or at least its bolt.
Lee in Texas, Have your 358Norma Mad (a great round) converted to a 358RUM, you will enjoy it

 

[Newboomer]

I bought a 1917 Enfield in 30-06 at a flea market in 1962. It was partially sporterized and was absolutely deadly with anything I fed it from 110 to 220 gr. in any bullet configuration. My gunsmith said it was a Star Guage which I understood meant it was match grade. Ugly as sin but was probably the best shooter I have ever owned. Like a foolish kid I sold it a few years later and have regretted it ever since.

 

[Lee in Texas]

I should have added if the cartridge head is any bigger than a 404J you will need the P14 or at least its bolt.

Lee in Texas, Have your 358Norma Mad (a great round) converted to a 358RUM, you will enjoy it

I would like to keep it as-is. It was built by Mark Chanlynn in the late 1970s. It was someone else’s “once in a lifetime” custom rifle. It went on one hunt in Alaska, then sat in a safe for about 40 years. The owner had no luck in selling it, at least for what he was asking. A couple of years after I first saw it, I got it from a dealer for $900. No way it could be built for that.

 

[Lee in Texas]

Back to the OP; Yes, absolutely build a custom rifle on it. You will not regret it. You may even find yourself hooked on Enfields.

 

[John J]

I appreciate all the info gentlemen. I did go back and pick the rifle up. I'll get a pic once I'm settled, just got back to town.

 

[John J]

She is well wore, stock hacked up and fore end tip missing. Does anyone know if the 577 T Rex will fit this action and bolt face? I have the A Square book in across town right now. Visiting AHR to pick up two rifles, Wayne generously gave me have a 577 T Rex case and a 600 Overkill cartridge. That didn't help the condition!

 

[Rule 303]

I would like to keep it as-is. It was built by Mark Chanlynn in the late 1970s. It was someone else’s “once in a lifetime” custom rifle. It went on one hunt in Alaska, then sat in a safe for about 40 years. The owner had no luck in selling it, at least for what he was asking. A couple of years after I first saw it, I got it from a dealer for $900. No way it could be built for that.

I hear you. I bet that rifle could tell some stories.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

She is well wore, stock hacked up and fore end tip missing. Does anyone know if the 577 T Rex will fit this action and bolt face? I have the A Square book in across town right now. Visiting AHR to pick up two rifles, Wayne generously gave me have a 577 T Rex case and a 600 Overkill cartridge. That didn't help the condition! View attachment 392004View attachment 392005

@John J
Please listen to @Professor Mawla and myself re converting to cock on opening. This is a big no no the cock on opening is far quicker to operate than cock on opening because part of the cocking is done on the upstroke of the bolt and completed when the bolt is driven home.
The M17's and P14 are big actions that lend themselves to making into bigger cartridges. Art Alpin used these actions for his big A Square magnums because of their size and strength. If you look at the locking lugs on the bolt you will find they are not square as in modern actions. They have a slight taper to them and lock up like a vault with no play at all because of this helical action
In his blow up test P O Ackley tested 3 rifles. The model 98 Mauser blew up first followed by the Enfield then the early model Arisaka.
375 mag boxes are readily available and a GOOD GUNSMITH can do wonders with them. My gunsmith made one into a beautiful 505 Gibbs for a customer and did a nice 35 Whelen AI in a model 30s style with the action lightened. The ugly dog leg bolt is positioned perfectly for quick bolt manimanipulating as well.
Some people say the Eddystone is prone to cracking but this is a load of Crockshit. Some of them had barrels put in that tight that some bubba the blacksmith gunworkers where to ham fisted and didn't know what they were doing and invariably twisted or cracked the action getting the barrel out.
As stated by by @Newboomer they are capable of great accuracy. My own P14 in a 25 cal that I designed will group less than an inch all day at 200 yards.
The Dayton triggers while good are not as good as the Timney in my humble opinion. To overcome the shortness of the trigger just get your gunsmith to straighten it.
I'm sure what ever you decide to do with your rifle you will be more than happy with it.
Just make sure you have a gunsmith that knows what they are doing not some bubba the blacksmith.
Bob

The rifle on the left is my M17 styled into a 30s in 35 Whelen AI and the other is my P14 in 25 cal.

What the 25 will do at 1 and 200 yards

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I dont know anything about this action. I believe this is the action A Square used? It is a 30 06 is it suitable for a big bore conversion? Thanks John

@John J
The British in 1913 designed the P13 action for the new 276 cartridge to replace the SMLE and 303 cartridge. The rifle was sent to the USA to manufacture. It was found the new 276 cartridge burnt barrels out very quickly.
WW1 bike out and the British found they didn't have enough SMLE rifles and promptly got the USA to manufacture it in 303. This became the P14. In the meantime the British had caught up in the manufacturing of the SMLE and offered the USA money to stop producing the P14 and regard the contract filled.
When the USA entered the war they found they didn't have enough Springfield rifles to arm their troops so converted the P14 to fire the 30/06. All that need to be done was to replace the barrel, recoil the bolt for a rimless cartridge and modify the feed rails and mag follower. The m17 was born.
After the war the U.S. troops were that impressed with the M17 they wanted it as the service weapon but the powers that be stuck with the Springfield.
All up around 4 million P14 and M17's were made .
After the war with the left over parts Remington made the model 30 and 30s. These were the forerunner of the 720,721 and eventually the model 700.
I hope this gives you a brief history of your rifle.
Yes I am an Enfield lunatics well as a Whelen fanatic.
As a by note Holland and Holland thought that highly of the rifle they even made bespoke 375H &H rifles out of them
Bob

 

[John J]

@John J
The British in 1913 designed the P13 action for the new 276 cartridge to replace the SMLE and 303 cartridge. The rifle was sent to the USA to manufacture. It was found the new 276 cartridge burnt barrels out very quickly.
WW1 bike out and the British found they didn't have enough SMLE rifles and promptly got the USA to manufacture it in 303. This became the P14. In the meantime the British had caught up in the manufacturing of the SMLE and offered the USA money to stop producing the P14 and regard the contract filled.
When the USA entered the war they found they didn't have enough Springfield rifles to arm their troops so converted the P14 to fire the 30/06. All that need to be done was to replace the barrel, recoil the bolt for a rimless cartridge and modify the feed rails and mag follower. The m17 was born.
After the war the U.S. troops were that impressed with the M17 they wanted it as the service weapon but the powers that be stuck with the Springfield.
All up around 4 million P14 and M17's were made .
After the war with the left over parts Remington made the model 30 and 30s. These were the forerunner of the 720,721 and eventually the model 700.
I hope this gives you a brief history of your rifle.
Yes I am an Enfield lunatics well as a Whelen fanatic.
As a by note Holland and Holland thought that highly of the rifle they even made bespoke 375H &H rifles out of them
Bob

The bolt operation is interesting to me. I have no plans on changing. Your history and information is duly noted. I appreciate the time to write that up! Apparently I need to do some research into these rifles, love the history. Thanks, John

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I remember when you could buy a Enfield action from Sarco for $100 with either a 30-06 or 303 bolt. Sadly that was only 3 years ago. I should have bought a few, but didn’t.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The bolt operation is interesting to me. I have no plans on changing. Your history and information is duly noted. I appreciate the time to write that up! Apparently I need to do some research into these rifles, love the history. Thanks, John

@John J
You are more than welcome.
Bob

 

[John J]

She cleans up nicely. Mag box has an R, bottom metal has a W. Everything on the rest of the rifle has an E. I assume it's not all Eddystone? Bloted out some of the SN but looks like it was made August of 1918. Have not been able to double verify as of yet. Darn shame it has holes in the reciever.

 

[TTundra]

Looks like a few Eddystone and Remington parts (which was normal) as they were interchangeable. And a Winchester box. Nothing out of the ordinary.
As for the scope base holes, a good smith can fill and refill as needed for a new base/mount. Will never see them...

Good luck on the build! Sky is the limit on what you want to do with it.