220 grain FMJ bullets in .308" - supplier?

[Flint]

Good day All.

Could anyone please advise of a supplier of 220 grain FMJ bullets in 30 calibre other than Woodleigh?

And sorry to hear of Woodleigh/s factory fire.

Sincere regards to all on the forum.

And thank you.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

CEB makes a 210 grain mono solid in 30 caliber.

 

[Flint]

CEB makes a 210 grain mono solid in 30 caliber.

Thank you Wayatt Smith.
Very much.
Will research.

 

[Flint]

Thank you Wayatt Smith.
Very much.
Will research.

.308" diameter 210 grain Copper Safari Solid.
Designed for Bolt Action Rifles.
Cut can be used in double rifles.
Design incorporates a 4 band configuration for reduced barrel strain.
With a long fore end in front of the first band. Reducing initial chamber pressure to quite some degree. Is my take.
Has a 67% Meplat nose profile which has proven to give the deepest penetration of any bullet tested to date.

One person can not know all.
What a find. A perfect bullet for my purpose.

 

[Flint]

.308" diameter 210 grain Copper Safari Solid.
Designed for Bolt Action Rifles.
Cut can be used in double rifles.
Design incorporates a 4 band configuration for reduced barrel strain.
With a long fore end in front of the first band. Reducing initial chamber pressure to quite some degree. Is my take.
Has a 67% Meplat nose profile which has proven to give the deepest penetration of any bullet tested to date.

One person can not know all.
What a find. A perfect bullet for my purpose.

And another thought.
This 210 grainer is is going to penetrate very well.
Also can I only imagine what superior penetration a bullet on this exact design in 250 grain Wesley Richards and 380 grain H&H will have. Also in the 375 of younger blooded design.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Barring Woodleigh, nobody has made 220Gr FMJ solids in .308 caliber in recent times. In the 1950s and 1960s, Hornady used to offer an excellent 220Gr round nosed copper clad steel jacketed FMJ solid in .308 caliber. I have a Zimbabwean friend who used these solids in a .30-06 Springfield to down six or seven African bull elephants with side brain shots (back when the country was still Rhodesia).

 

[sestoppelman]

I have an old box of Barnes 30 cal bullets that are 250 grs, RN softs.

 

[Aaron N]

Out of curiosity, what would someone use a .308 solid for? I’ve wondered this with the CEB Safari Solids.

 

[Flint]

I have an old box of Barnes 30 cal bullets that are 250 grs, RN softs.

Gold. Pure gold!
How fortunate you are!

 

[Flint]

Barring Woodleigh, nobody has made 220Gr FMJ solids in .308 caliber in recent times. In the 1950s and 1960s, Hornady used to offer an excellent 220Gr round nosed copper clad steel jacketed FMJ solid in .308 caliber. I have a Zimbabwean friend who used these solids in a .30-06 Springfield to down six or seven African bull elephants with side brain shots (back when the country was still Rhodesia).

I do not doubt this for a second.
Incidentally.
On a John van Zyl interview on YouTube with Ron Thomson. Perhaps the second or third. Was culling in Ghonarezhou discussed and an even lighter version referred to...... And if anyone should know. Will he.

I'll never forget Ron's recipe for a side brain shot. "The height of the cheekbone. Above the cheekbone. Behind the cheekbone". And if I'm not mistaken. Discussed at great length in one of his books. Mahohboh.
Kindest Rhodesian regards!! And God bless!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Out of curiosity, what would someone use a .308 solid for? I’ve wondered this with the CEB Safari Solids.

Let’s assume you ( or anybody else ) are taking a .30-06 Springfield as your only rifle for a one gun plains game safari in Africa. Now, members of the tiny ten happens to be on your menu ( like Duiker ). Expanding bullets in a .30-06 Springfield will cause excessive meat damage for these tiny creatures. This is where the .308 caliber solid fills a nice niche.

In the past, casual hunters in Africa such as farmers and land owners (who hunted mainly for the pot, but also needed to sort out the odd rogue elephant or crop raiding hippo or irate cape buffalo) usually just owned one rifle and one shotgun. The rifle was seldom a big bore (contrary to popular notion, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum didn’t really catch on in Africa until the 1950s) and was usually in a military caliber ( mainly because access to military surplus ammunition was affordable ) such as the 6.5x54mm Mannlicher, 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and of course … The .30-06 Springfield. For this market, ICI Kynoch continued to load 173Gr, 227Gr and 220Gr FMJ solids for the 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and .30-06 Springfield respectively well into 1968 (1972 in the case of the .30-06 Springfield)

Today, there are still a couple of places in Africa ( Mozambique for one ) where there is no minimum requirement for what caliber to use on dangerous game ( although they are very stringent terms of many other game laws ). A very daring (or very stupid, if you look at things from a different perspective) could ( in theory ) try to emulate W.D.M. Bell’s success with small calibers against elephants or cape buffaloes. The .308 caliber Cutting Edge Bullets Safari Solid could come in use here.

 

[Ray B]

Really?

 

[Aaron N]

Let’s assume you ( or anybody else ) are taking a .30-06 Springfield as your only rifle for a one gun plains game safari in Africa. Now, members of the tiny ten happens to be on your menu ( like Duiker ). Expanding bullets in a .30-06 Springfield will cause excessive meat damage for these tiny creatures. This is where the .308 caliber solid fills a nice niche.

In the past, casual hunters in Africa such as farmers and land owners (who hunted mainly for the pot, but also needed to sort out the odd rogue elephant or crop raiding hippo or irate cape buffalo) usually just owned one rifle and one shotgun. The rifle was seldom a big bore (contrary to popular notion, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum didn’t really catch on in Africa until the 1950s) and was usually in a military caliber ( mainly because access to military surplus ammunition was affordable ) such as the 6.5x54mm Mannlicher, 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and of course … The .30-06 Springfield. For this market, ICI Kynoch continued to load 173Gr, 227Gr and 220Gr FMJ solids for the 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and .30-06 Springfield respectively well into 1968 (1972 in the case of the .30-06 Springfield)

Today, there are still a couple of places in Africa ( Mozambique for one ) where there is no minimum requirement for what caliber to use on dangerous game ( although they are very stringent terms of many other game laws ). A very daring (or very stupid, if you look at things from a different perspective) could ( in theory ) try to emulate W.D.M. Bell’s success with small calibers against elephants or cape buffaloes. The .308 caliber Cutting Edge Bullets Safari Solid could come in use here.

I had not thought about the tiny ten.

Thanks!

 

[krish]

Like this

 

[Flint]

Let’s assume you ( or anybody else ) are taking a .30-06 Springfield as your only rifle for a one gun plains game safari in Africa. Now, members of the tiny ten happens to be on your menu ( like Duiker ). Expanding bullets in a .30-06 Springfield will cause excessive meat damage for these tiny creatures. This is where the .308 caliber solid fills a nice niche.

In the past, casual hunters in Africa such as farmers and land owners (who hunted mainly for the pot, but also needed to sort out the odd rogue elephant or crop raiding hippo or irate cape buffalo) usually just owned one rifle and one shotgun. The rifle was seldom a big bore (contrary to popular notion, the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum didn’t really catch on in Africa until the 1950s) and was usually in a military caliber ( mainly because access to military surplus ammunition was affordable ) such as the 6.5x54mm Mannlicher, 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and of course … The .30-06 Springfield. For this market, ICI Kynoch continued to load 173Gr, 227Gr and 220Gr FMJ solids for the 7x57mm Mauser, 8x57mm Mauser and .30-06 Springfield respectively well into 1968 (1972 in the case of the .30-06 Springfield)

Today, there are still a couple of places in Africa ( Mozambique for one ) where there is no minimum requirement for what caliber to use on dangerous game ( although they are very stringent terms of many other game laws ). A very daring (or very stupid, if you look at things from a different perspective) could ( in theory ) try to emulate W.D.M. Bell’s success with small calibers against elephants or cape buffaloes. The .308 caliber Cutting Edge Bullets Safari Solid could come in use here.

Aaron N you are SO completely correct!
For wise future usage in Mozambique is 220 grainers in FMJ and or monos intended.

And please share a writing regarding 380 grain in Copper Safari Solid design which I sent to a CEB. They presently offer a 300 grain bullet as is to be referred to. In the Copper Safari Solid design.

In the writing do I also refer to 380 grain Rhino Solid Base bullets. Which I have loaded. To 2190 fps. With a container of screened dry builders sand as a backstop. And somewhere do I still have the regained projectiles. For sure of the 300s do I recall. And it must certainly be the strongest bonded core bullets ever made. The weight retention was in the "too good to be true" category. And I had a witness on the shooting range with me who requested to have one of the two bullets from the 300 grain batch.

Anyhow. The included writing regards my perception of stabilising a long-for-calibre .375 bullet. In a 12" twist barrel.

Could you. Or anyone who knows more than me about the subject please try and have me understand why I might be in error.
In short is the 308gr Rhino Solid Base an odd looking bullet. in the order of 32mm long. With a loong bearing surface. And the firs-from-front band on the Copper Safari Solid design is well back on the bullet. Thus effecting a barrel interference length of much shorter than that of the 380gr Rhino.

I include the letter main issues as sent.
“and respectfully request your attention. Experience. And comment on a matter. Which I as layman regarding bullets. And bullet design. Need a lot of convincing about to put my theory in error.

Could you please bear with my explanation? And kindly reply?

For decades am I attempting, while contacting bullet manufacturers, to produce a 380 grain FMJ or monolithic solid bullet to load as second and additional bullets, after a 380 grain Rhino Solid base. As a first expanding bullet. When hunting dangerous game.

I’m not perfectly sure of the exact length of this Particular Rhino bullet. But it’s in the order of 32 millimeters. With a long bearing surface. And stabilizes perfectly. And should one hold true every time will punch the same hole. Everytime. The equal have I only experienced in .22 Hornet.

One reply was that the lead content of this particular bullet gives the advantage to attain 380 grains while retaining a projectile length which still stabilizes. And the overall lighter average weight of a mono metal will result in a bullet with a too long length to properly stabilize when manufactured to 380 grains on .375 bore.

But my problem with this statement is that, in spite of my mentioning, that a banded design can be made, with a long fore end, so reducing the interference length with a barrel rifling. I am not making any sort or kind of a breakthrough.

And the design of your Copper Safari Solid on at least the 210 grain .30 calibre is exactly what I had in mind for this idea in question!

I know only of the mentioned bullet brand in 380 grains. In the field professional hunters report on this bullets performance in accolades. I have reloaded and shot these specific bullets. There is to my knowledge no 380 grain solid-type follow up bullet available. Which. Will no doubt be a perfect marriage. And hugely popular. Especially with heavy recoil shy hunters.

There are matched pairs of 350 grain .375 bullets. But none to mate with 380 SP.

And as far as bullet length goes. With this mentioned design of yours will it, to my reasoning, be of secondary concern or importance. Except for an additional millimeter or two. Into the chamber area of a shell case. With increased chamber pressure. Yes. But with less consequence on the case capacities of .375 H&H. And Ruger.

And. In the case where I’m missing the bus. Can you please attempt to explain why I am in error?

Many thanks.

Yours sincerely.”

 

[Flint]

I have an old box of Barnes 30 cal bullets that are 250 grs, RN softs.

PURE GOLD!

 

[krish]

Barring Woodleigh, nobody has made 220Gr FMJ solids in .308 caliber in recent times. In the 1950s and 1960s, Hornady used to offer an excellent 220Gr round nosed copper clad steel jacketed FMJ solid in .308 caliber. I have a Zimbabwean friend who used these solids in a .30-06 Springfield to down six or seven African bull elephants with side brain shots (back when the country was still Rhodesia).

 

[krish]

Barring Woodleigh, nobody has made 220Gr FMJ solids in .308 caliber in recent times. In the 1950s and 1960s, Hornady used to offer an excellent 220Gr round nosed copper clad steel jacketed FMJ solid in .308 caliber. I have a Zimbabwean friend who used these solids in a .30-06 Springfield to down six or seven African bull elephants with side brain shots (back when the country was still Rhodesia).

 

[Hunter-Habib]

View attachment 494422

But Krish, these are discontinued “Barnes Super Solids” monolithic solids, aren’t they ? And from the looks of things, they might cause some pretty high pressures in the barrels due to being unbanded (a common complaint about the Barnes Super Solid, which caused them to discontinue them and replace them with the Barnes Banded Solid).

 

[krish]

But Krish, these are discontinued “Barnes Super Solids” monolithic solids, aren’t they ? And from the looks of things, they might cause some pretty high pressures in the barrels due to being unbanded (a common complaint about the Barnes Super Solid, which caused them to discontinue them and replace them with the Barnes Banded Solid).

As long as it is not loaded hot.
Krish