30-06 Barnes 150 TTSX Info

[Ridgewalker]

Barnes factory 150 gr TTSX shoots in 1/2” or less in my ancient Remington Sportsman 78.

So I thought I could come up with a similar performance or better (wishful thinking) by handloading.
Well, consistently it would cluster two within 1/2”, then open up. I was seating them to what Barnes indicated on their website.

Well I thought maybe I needed to change the seating depth to see if this fixed the problem as it has done for me in the past. I bought a new box of Barnes factory 150 TTSX and pulled a cartridge out. Measured the OAL and discovered they don’t assemble their cartridges to their website data OAL!
Seating to the same spec as their factory, this is what I came up with:

The bullets aren’t the same! An email to Barnes finally got a response. “Our boxed bullets were designed for the 300 Win Mag and are not the same as our factory loaded 30-06 150 TTSX. The boxed bullets have an extra groove and a different ogive. The bullets in the factory 30-06 are not available, yet, for reloading”.

You can see the difference in the picture where they are loaded to the same OAL. Now I wonder if the expansion will be different on game? Did they also thin the expansion area to make it open at 30-06 velocities? Did they also do this on the ones for the factory 308?

I also discovered that the 168 TTSX shouldn’t be used in the 300 Win Mag (seats too deeply), but instead I should use the 165 TTSX in the 300 Win Mag and use the 168 TTSX in the 30-06. I don’t understand why they list the 168 with the 300 Win Mag data and the 165 with the 30-06 if they are not designed for them!

This is frustrating me!

 

[Edge]

It's those grooves! They must cut them to the OAL required for the cartridge.

I think you are close to duplicating the Barnes accuracy, go up another .5 grain or go a bit shorter on OAL.

I loaded and shot some 130gr TTSX out of my 30-06 Friday with an MOA group, I think I may call it good. They are running 3300 fps with the max Barnes book load of H4895 with no pressure signs.

Good luck!

Edge

 

[Mekaniks]

Barnes factory 150 gr TTSX shoots in 1/2” or less in my ancient Remington Sportsman 78.

View attachment 206278 View attachment 206279


So I thought I could come up with a similar performance or better (wishful thinking) by handloading.
Well, consistently it would cluster two within 1/2”, then open up. I was seating them to what Barnes indicated on their website.

View attachment 206280

Well I thought maybe I needed to change the seating depth to see if this fixed the problem as it has done for me in the past. I bought a new box of Barnes factory 150 TTSX and pulled a cartridge out. Measured the OAL and discovered they don’t assemble their cartridges to their website data OAL!
Seating to the same spec as their factory, this is what I came up with:

View attachment 206281

The bullets aren’t the same! An email to Barnes finally got a response. “Our boxed bullets were designed for the 300 Win Mag and are not the same as our factory loaded 30-06 150 TTSX. The boxed bullets have an extra groove and a different ogive. The bullets in the factory 30-06 are not available, yet, for reloading”.

You can see the difference in the picture where they are loaded to the same OAL. Now I wonder if the expansion will be different on game? Did they also thin the expansion area to make it open at 30-06 velocities? Did they also do this on the ones for the factory 308?

I also discovered that the 168 TTSX shouldn’t be used in the 300 Win Mag (seats too deeply), but instead I should use the 165 TTSX in the 300 Win Mag and use the 168 TTSX in the 30-06. I don’t understand why they list the 168 with the 300 Win Mag data and the 165 with the 30-06 if they are not designed for them!

This is frustrating me!

Wow!

 

[Divernhunter]

If you check any Barnes factory ammo you will find the same. The top relief groove will just be showing and they shoot great. I messed around for 2-3 years measuring chambers and seating depths. Then I set the bullets like the factory and now I get basically one hole groups with each different cartridge/firearm I use. My 257W has more than 1/4" jump and will put 5+ bullets into one hole at 100 yards

They like and NEED jump. So do Swift Scirocco and Nosler AB bullets. My daughters rifle(with match grade barrel) put 5 shots go the Scirroco(and other bullets) into one hole all of a sudden shot groups like a shotgun---6"+. I was not sure what the problem was until I compared some old ammo I loaded to the most recent. The new stuff was longer. Shoved the bullets deeper(to the old specs) and then 1st 3 shot were touching. I had a few rounds of the longer ammo and tried 2 rounds. They were 8" apart. So all are now shorter and it shoots great again.

 

[CAustin]

All of your shots pictured will cut meat @Ridgewalker!

 

[Ridgewalker]

CAustin, they are pretty accurate, but hopefully that helps make up for my inaccuracy in the heat-of-the-moment in the field. I guess being retired maybe I have too much time on my hands!

 

[Shootist43]

I agree with you Ridgwalker, I like to get them as close as I can. But then there is that old adage "don't get too fussy in your old age." Somewhere between those two there is a compromise we can live with.

Have you tried shooting additional three shot groups with both factory and your reloads? Take a look a 4 or 5 three shot groups of each, your findings may change.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Shootist43, yes I may be getting too picky. I’ve shot one box of the Barnes Vor-TX 150s in 3 shot groups over several months indoors and outdoors. From a good rest they have all made 1/2” or less. Still working on my handload.
This old Remington Sportsman 78 was in our 100 year flood a few years ago now. When I got it from my buddy, I soaked it in Kroil. After cleaning it all up there was only a couple of pitted areas on the outside of the barrel. I think it shoots as well as it did before it got soaked.

 

[BWH]

I use Barnes 168 gr TTSX exclusively in my 06. Excellent results. Dozens of animals from Springbok to Eland. Perfection.

 

[Ridgewalker]

I use Barnes 168 gr TTSX exclusively in my 06. Excellent results. Dozens of animals from Springbok to Eland. Perfection.

Do you handload these, or are they a factory load?
If a handload, what powder and how much?
What’s the longest range you have taken an animal and did it expand well?
Thanks!

 

[BWH]

Do you handload these, or are they a factory load?
If a handload, what powder and how much?
What’s the longest range you have taken an animal and did it expand well?
Thanks!

No sir.... premium factory ammo exclusively.... Barnes TTSX 168 gr. A few really good suppliers (i.e. Double Tap, Federal, Barnes, etc)

That’s why I don’t reload. They are better than me.

 

[ChrisG]

I don't know.... There's practical accuracy and mechanical accuracy. If you're fussing over 0.25" at 100 yards, I think you have stepped beyond gaining any hunting utility. With the exception of varmint rifles, (I assume you're not using a 150 TTSX on ground squirrels), There isn't much to be gained by straining over 1/4". The gun will not kill any better and with the exception of shooting a .30-06 at ranges far beyond where that TTSX will expand anyway (much past 400 yards), you really gain nothing but bragging rights. I would call any of those loads MORE than sufficient to take anything coyote sized or bigger. But if you're unhappy, there are a myriad of things from seating length, different powder (for burn characteristics), different primers (std. vs. mag.), different powder weight... the list goes on. Any or all of these may be the problem that will get you down to that last 1/4".
It is pretty impressive if you think about it that a rifle burning what amounts to a low explosive, can project and stabilize an imperfect cylinder through 300 feet of atmosphere and get them to land anywhere close to each other. Your flyers could have been the result of a short gust of wind halfway between you and the target, or a change in temperature of a pocket of air through which the bullet passed. I mean... theoretically it could have been caused by the bullet hitting a bug in the air. Who knows... you will have to experiment

If it were me however, I would probably call it good and start practicing from field positions to try to keep them in a paper plate at 200 yards.

 

[Ridgewalker]

ChrisG, you’re of course right. Being a retired engineer, it’s just an illness I have. I do practice from field positions every time I go to the range. Again agree with you on that. I also walk briskly to and from the 100 m target and try to shoot from field positions.
Thanks for the input!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

ChrisG, you’re of course right. Being a retired engineer, it’s just an illness I have.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Though I do prefer the phrase "ballistic OCD", just sounds better.

 

[Rick Cox]

Barnes factory 150 gr TTSX shoots in 1/2” or less in my ancient Remington Sportsman 78.

View attachment 206278 View attachment 206279


So I thought I could come up with a similar performance or better (wishful thinking) by handloading.
Well, consistently it would cluster two within 1/2”, then open up. I was seating them to what Barnes indicated on their website.

View attachment 206280

Well I thought maybe I needed to change the seating depth to see if this fixed the problem as it has done for me in the past. I bought a new box of Barnes factory 150 TTSX and pulled a cartridge out. Measured the OAL and discovered they don’t assemble their cartridges to their website data OAL!
Seating to the same spec as their factory, this is what I came up with:

View attachment 206281

The bullets aren’t the same! An email to Barnes finally got a response. “Our boxed bullets were designed for the 300 Win Mag and are not the same as our factory loaded 30-06 150 TTSX. The boxed bullets have an extra groove and a different ogive. The bullets in the factory 30-06 are not available, yet, for reloading”.

You can see the difference in the picture where they are loaded to the same OAL. Now I wonder if the expansion will be different on game? Did they also thin the expansion area to make it open at 30-06 velocities? Did they also do this on the ones for the factory 308?

I also discovered that the 168 TTSX shouldn’t be used in the 300 Win Mag (seats too deeply), but instead I should use the 165 TTSX in the 300 Win Mag and use the 168 TTSX in the 30-06. I don’t understand why they list the 168 with the 300 Win Mag data and the 165 with the 30-06 if they are not designed for them!

This is frustrating me!

Good sleuthing! That is frustrating.

 

[Ridgewalker]

FYI, One of my bucket list trophies hopefully will be a crocodile. That’s one reason every rifle I have that might go back to Africa has to be able to destroy a golf ball at 100 meters.

 

[Shootist43]

That Kroil is good stuff. I use it and OOOO steel wool to clean up any surface rusting. BTW what type of Engineer are you? I obsess over 1/4" (additional group size" as well. But only with some rifles. For instance I don't expect my Black FN to outshoot my deer rifle. I just have to shoot a few more rounds into the bull before all the bullets touch.

 

[Divernhunter]

Seat the Barnes deep with only the top relief groove showing.
I like Win 748 then Win 760 then IMR4064. We get very tiny groups with them in a number of different rifles using 130 or 150gr TTSX bullets. All loads are max from the Barnes book or website. Always use Barnes only data for Barnes bullets

 

[Ridgewalker]

That Kroil is good stuff. I use it and OOOO steel wool to clean up any surface rusting. BTW what type of Engineer are you? I obsess over 1/4" (additional group size" as well. But only with some rifles. For instance I don't expect my Black FN to outshoot my deer rifle. I just have to shoot a few more rounds into the bull before all the bullets touch.

I designed tooling and test equipment mainly in the high tech industry. Retired from EMC. During my career I designed tooling (jigs, fixtures, die sets, HASS fixturing, servo track writer, coil winding machines, misc automation, etc), antennas (commercial, CB, government, ham radio), knives (Western Cutlery Co), rack mounts and a few others I can’t recall these days.