405 Winchester ??

[tahoe2]

Without any experience in the Big Bore world, where does the 405 Winchester fit in?
Teddy used it back in the day! It was powerful enough back then, and more-so today
with modern propellants and bullets?

 

[tahoe2]

So 47 views and nothing, no positives or negatives. I thought the exploits of Theodore in Africa
would at least conjure up some nostalgia if nothing less. I guess the 405 Winchester doesn't exist
anymore, although I see one at the range from time to time, it's a real Boomer!

 

[enysse]

Give the post a little time, there are people on here that use that rifle caliber and are more than willing to talk about it.

If you use the search tool and type in .405 Win, some threads should come up.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hello Tahoe!
As enysse says be patient my man! I just saw this now, and I am a big fan of this round and am taking mine to RSA this coming June for eland.
I have a Miroku 1895 and have been shooting it now for over a year. I used to have a Ruger No1 in this round too. Great cartridge. The first thing I ever really read about it that got me intrigued was an article in an old magazine about a bush pilot that killed a monster Alaska brown bear with one, back in 1949.
As far as where it fits in? About where you want it to I guess. Depending on where you take it, it may not make minimum energy levels for some game nor is it ideal for some game. John Taylor of elephant hunting fame thought it not a great cartridge due to low ballistic properties when compared to the .375 H&H. And it is not nearly as powerful as many other rounds but I would put it to you this way. If legal, I would have no problem hunting buffalo or lion with my handload using the Barnes TripleShok at over 2150fps. This load is good for about 3100 ft/lbs of muzzle energy and shoots very well in my rifle. I dont hot rod this rifle the way I would and did the Ruger No1 which is a fair amount stronger of a rifle. I drove 400gr bullets to 2100fps in the Ruger and had enough energy to be legal about anywhere for anything. Some guys mess around with the heavies in the Winchester but I am content to stick with the 300gr and near original velocities, especially for what I intend to hunt, which on this next trip will be eland or smaller. Another member on here used his last year for kudu and oryx if I recall. As Eric said you can probably find the thread in a search. See, your patience paid off with a reply!

 

[PBBaker]

Without any experience in the Big Bore world, where does the 405 Winchester fit in?
Teddy used it back in the day! It was powerful enough back then, and more-so today
with modern propellants and bullets?

I took my old 1895 .405 to South Africa on two trips. I love that gun. You need to get in close, but that's what it's all about anyway, right? I dropped a nice kudu and a gemsbok in their tracks and finished an impala that I made a poor shot on with my .06. I posted photos. I didn't carry it when I thought longer shots would be needed and afterward wished I had especially when I got inside 50 yds of my waterbuck and warthog. Next time I will carry it exclusively. I'm not sure I want to use it on a buff, but I might. It will certainly take care of any of the antelopes with decent shot placement, it doesn't have scope to deal with and it gets a lot of attention whenever I pull it out of the case.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello tahoe2,

If you have a .405 and shoot it well, do take it to Africa.

It is a classic and I do like the classic cartridges.

It is definitely not one I would select for buffalo but, I have only taken one buffalo, therefore I am no expert on them.

Once I made an offer on a used Ruger #1 in .405 but, the seller was firm on his inflated price (could've bought a new one for about the same cost at that time, including shipping).

Now perhaps Ruger has quit making them, not sure.

Some day I will stumble into one at the right price, (hopefully an original Model 1895).

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[sestoppelman]

An original '95 in .405 in good shape can be pretty expensive, over a couple of grand anyway and more. The .405 didn't enjoy that great a reputation in the old days largely because of the short, fat round nosed bullets of the day. With a 300gr Barnes Triple Shock at near 2200fps, I would not be at all afraid to tackle a buffalo if that was what I had in my hands. Buff have been taken cleanly with less formidable rounds than the .405 Win. I am no expert either but have taken two buff, both with a .375 Hollands, with 300gr bullets at around 2550fps. More about bullet quality and shot placement than anything else, buff aren't bullet proof. Having said all that, it would not be my first choice as I have other more appropriate guns for such work.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Sestoppleman,

Looks like we are mostly in agreement on the .405, it is a very good one for certain things, from my point of view, evidently from yours as well.

Hemingway's favorite buffalo getter was a .30-06 but, I would not select that one for them either, even if it was legal these days.

Around 2K for an original 95 in .405 would be better than any I have stumbled onto so far here in Alaska and, there are a fair sprinkling of them that change hands from time to time here.

Again, perhaps one day I will trip over one that is the right deal for me (not high on my list but it is on my list).

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[vette447]

I have a 1903 vintage Winchester 1895 deluxe in .405 WCF with a climbin' Lyman peep sight. I used it to kill a Black Bear in New Mexico two years ago. I really like that old gun. It is a great cartridge and if you shoot it well, it should serve you just fine.

 

[vette447]

I want to make sure and emphasize to be sure to practice with the gun if you are using a vintage Winchester. Also, as stated above, a good solid vintage 1895 in .405 won't be cheap. Nice condition 1895's can certainly be had for less than other vintage "year model" Winchester leverguns but the .405's command a premium (by far) compared to the other caliber offerings in the old 95's.

 

[PBBaker]

My Deluxe was made in 1902 and even with open sights and my old eyes will shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. It has obviously seen plenty of use over its life, but the bore is quite good although not pristine. It has the sweetest trigger. I used factory Hornady ammo which performed flawlessly, but I had custom loads made up with Barnes bullets for my next trip. Mine came from my Dad's collection and I know they are pricey, but I believe in decent condition and priced fairly they are a pretty good investment. As a Roosevelt fan, the mystique and nostalgia are priceless.

 

[Velo Dog]

My Deluxe was made in 1902 and even with open sights and my old eyes will shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. It has obviously seen plenty of use over its life, but the bore is quite good although not pristine. It has the sweetest trigger. I used factory Hornady ammo which performed flawlessly, but I had custom loads made up with Barnes bullets for my next trip. Mine came from my Dad's collection and I know they are pricey, but I believe in decent condition and priced fairly they are a pretty good investment. As a Roosevelt fan, the mystique and nostalgia are priceless.

PBBaker,

One day I will have a .405 (probably as popular where I live as anywhere, perhaps more so).
Crescent buttplate notwithstanding.
Have seen one here and there with shotgun butt however always over 3K and at least one was over 4K (condition, condition, condition).
Meanwhile, my dog is named Theodore Roosevelt (of course "Teddy" for short).

I would not hesitate to use the .405 in Africa, especially in the thick foliage areas that I have done most of my PG (and my one DG) hunting in.
Again, I don't think it is a perfect heavy/dangerous game caliber but, for the other critters, it should be a good one within a wooded/brushy setting.

I do not believe anything is proved by these guys who like to shoot huge animals with tiny bullets.
All of their friends must already know they are a good shot, from shooting targets with them.
Turns out, most of us who practice a lot are pretty good shots.
For nostalgia sake and for respect to the animal being shot, I like to use enough gun (as Ruark used to say).
The .405 fits that description for most of the animals I will ever hunt.

The .405 is Just Bully,
Velo Dog.

 

[PBBaker]

PBBaker,

One day I will have a .405 (probably as popular where I live as anywhere, perhaps more so).
Crescent buttplate notwithstanding.
Have seen one here and there with shotgun butt however always over 3K and at least one was over 4K (condition, condition, condition).
Meanwhile, my dog is named Theodore Roosevelt (of course "Teddy" for short).

I would not hesitate to use the .405 in Africa, especially in the thick foliage areas that I have done most of my PG (and my one DG) hunting in.
Again, I don't think it is a perfect heavy/dangerous game caliber but, for the other critters, it should be a good one within a wooded/brushy setting.

I do not believe anything is proved by these guys who like to shoot huge animals with tiny bullets.
All of their friends must already know they are a good shot, from shooting targets with them.
Turns out, most of us who practice a lot are pretty good shots.
For nostalgia sake and for respect to the animal being shot, I like to use enough gun (as Ruark used to say).
The .405 fits that description for most of the animals I will ever hunt.

The .405 is Just Bully,
Velo Dog.

Dog:
Wow! They have gone up since I last checked. I strongly recommend the "shotgun" butt. Mine is nice and wide which is a blessing on the bench. I never notice the recoil when shooting at the beasties, but guys really complain about the crescents.
Good luck finding one.
PBBAKER

 

[vette447]

I probably paid too much for mine as a paid around the higher figure mentioned about. However, it is a deluxe checkered model with the peep sight and shotgun butt so I may have just gotten enamored and "had to have it". However, I agree that a nice condition vintage .405 WCF 1895 would be a good investment in my opinion.

 

[Velo Dog]

Dog:
Wow! They have gone up since I last checked. I strongly recommend the "shotgun" butt. Mine is nice and wide which is a blessing on the bench. I never notice the recoil when shooting at the beasties, but guys really complain about the crescents.
Good luck finding one.
PBBAKER

Baker,

Here in AK, large caliber rifles, including the .405 are usually more expensive than they are in most of the USA.
The shotgun butt commands an even higher price.
I am only referring to antique Model 95s in very good to excellent condition.
The newer version with the tang safety are very common here and seems like they go used for about a thousand or a bit more, in excellent conditon (I only want an oldie, or a Ruger single shot would do I suppose).
A "beater" antique Model 95, in .405, with crescent butt, would probably go for 2K or less in Anchorage but not sure, since I have not seen a beater .405 here for sale.
Not sure how they fare in Canada but will guess they fetch a premium there as well.

Out,
Velo Dog.

 

[c..J. halamicek]

Hello you 405 Win;chester fans. FYI.
When the Aussies came home from WW2 they tried to use the 303 on the local water buffalo, it did not work. The local gunsmiths rebarreled to .41 and chambered to .405 Win., the rims are compatable, the old Enfield Mark 4 is super strong, the rest is history If any of you go there to hunt, please get the info and write an article
about the Australian 405 Win.
Also, the Mosin-Nagant 1891-30 is suitable for a conversion, I am having one done in Giddings, Texas, laminated stock, Shilen barrel , Timney triger, mount on chamber.
Either of these super strong old warriors will handle any load you can come up with. If you are into casting your own look at the NEI 300 grain RNGC. HAWK makes some great jacketed special order.

 

[crs]

Tahoe2,
I have a Tahoe also and three .405 WCF rifles ; two Miroku 1895 and one Simson Suhl double rifle.
In a rush now, but can provide pix later. Also you can search this forum and others for my posts on the .405.

 

[fourfive8]

No reason the 405 Win wouldn't be a fair to "midlin" big game cartridge for 300-400 gr bullets. I have a 1904 original '95 in 405 and shoot it quite a bit. But it is an expensive collector rifle so I keep the pressures low and shoot mostly cast bullets.

In a modern strong single shot or double rifle no reason the 405 couldn't push good 400 gr bullets to respectable ballistics. A major limiting factor would be case capacity with the correct powders. Example for Varget powder--- the max capacity (to rim of mouth) of a modern 405 Win case is about 73 gr compared to about 100 gr max capacity (to rim of mouth) in a modern 416 Rem Mag case.

 

[PBBaker]

No reason the 405 Win wouldn't be a fair to "midlin" big game cartridge for 300-400 gr bullets. I have a 1904 original '95 in 405 and shoot it quite a bit. But it is an expensive collector rifle so I keep the pressures low and shoot mostly cast bullets.

In a modern strong single shot or double rifle no reason the 405 couldn't push good 400 gr bullets to respectable ballistics. A major limiting factor would be case capacity with the correct powders. Example for Varget powder--- the max capacity (to rim of mouth) of a modern 405 Win case is about 73 gr compared to about 100 gr max capacity (to rim of mouth) in a modern 416 Rem Mag case.

I would say better than “middlin’”. I have had great success on plains game including kudu, gemsbok, black wildebeest, nyala, giraffe and sable with my ‘95 made in 1902 first using factory Hornady and then Barnes customs loaded to standard specs. None went more than 50 yards and those were the wildebeest, giraffe and nyala. You just need to get close and make a good shot.

 

[CAustin]

I would say better than “middlin’”. I have had great success on plains game including kudu, gemsbok, black wildebeest, nyala, giraffe and sable with my ‘95 made in 1902 first using factory Hornady and then Barnes customs loaded to standard specs. None went more than 50 yards and those were the wildebeest, giraffe and nyala. You just need to get close and make a good shot.

PB do you have any picture s to share from you hunts?