416 Remington reload info

[Nitrosteel]

I purchased a 416 Rem Mag from a member here and really have enjoyed shooting it. Winchester M70 with 24” barrel, using Swarovski z6 1-6x24 scope.

I’m used to reloading precision (long range) rifle cartridges and many other standard magnum rifle cartridges, but never have had any experience with a rifle this large. I want to contribute to the forum and the following are my results.

Goals:

1). Reach around 2400 FPS with 400 grain Swift a-frame bullets - using a temp stable powder (was thinking Varget)
2). Not be over pressure regardless of outside temperature.
3). Get 1.5-2” groups at 100 yards.
4). Find a load for a reliable solid (was thinking 400 grain Barnes banded solid) that shoots close to same point of impact as the a-frames.

 

[Nitrosteel]

I started with with 400 gr Swift a-frames and Varget. Working up to the maximum load showed no pressure signs and powder didn’t seem to be compressed, but velocity was only around 2310 (using Labrador). Groups were good - around 1.5” at 100 yards. I went one grain over max charge and groups went to crap - around 3.5”, but velocity was only around 2335. Still no pressure signs, but didn’t seem to be possible to get where I wanted.

I switched to H4350 powder and started with a load of 85 grains (using Fed215 primers). Velocity was around 2325, but powder space seemed very limited. I went up to 86 grains and Velocity went to 2360. Very tight extreme spread and 1” groups. Powder is very compressed, no pressure signs, but powder will not fit without either vibrating cases or pouring into case very, very slowly. Even then- bullet would not seat to the desired depth, but deep enough to be able to crimp lightly into cannelure with RCBS seating die - then lock down with Lee FCD. All was well.

Then issue occurred - can’t find anymore Fed215 primers... So I loaded same load using Win LRM primers. Speed went to 2992. Still tight SD and extreme spread. Still around 1-1.5” group at 100 yards. Very pleased with results.

 

[Nitrosteel]

I’ve got about 100 rounds remaining of factory Remington 400 grain Barnes solids. They don’t shoot nearly as well in the rifle but do fine out to 100 yards. Around 3-4” groups. The velocity from this load is around 2427. I’m satisfied with the way they shoot, but they shoot at a point of aim about 4” lower than my loaded soft-point ammo. Any suggestion on which 400 gr solids I could use to get to the same POI as the swift a frames?

As a side note - I loaded some 350 Speer hot-core bullets using 21 grains of Trailboss. They shoot around 2.5” groups at 100 yards and shoot exactly 5.5” right of my full power soft points. They are a downright pleasure to shoot. My Labradar won’t pick up their speed, but I’m guessing they are around 1100-1200 FPS

 

[Nitrosteel]

Any help on a recommendation for solids would be greatly appreciated. They seem to be very expensive- so I’d like to make a good educated guess pretty quickly.

thank y’all for the help.

 

[Shootist43]

Nitrosteel , 2992 FPS?? That is one hell of a jump for just switching primers. Or did you just fat finger the keyboard and intended to say 2492 FPS? I use H4350 my 404 Jeffery(s) and 416 Rigby.

 

[fourfive8]

2350 with a .416 400 gr bullet using temperature insensitive powder like Varget has proven to work extremely well for me. If North Fork (now in Sweden) ever gets going again, I'd recommend their 370 or 400 grain Flat Point Solid or Cup Point Solid whichever shoots near same POI with either their 400 gr bonded soft point or the 400 gr Swift A Frame. Solids are not all created equal. Look through the thread here about FN vs RN solids. Well worth the read. The other solid I would recommend is the GS Custom Flat Nose Solid. You'd have to check on their availability.

And don't discount the Barnes TSX for a soft point choice.

 

[Nitrosteel]

I meant 2392 FPS - about 30 FPS jump. Very satisfied with the H4350 - though I was surprised at the speed. Shouldn’t be shooting as fast as Varget, especially with a mild load. In my experience (and from what I read) h4350 is supposed to be more temp stable than Varget.

I’m pretty settled on the swift a frame for my soft. I’ll start looking into the solids that you recommended. Does anyone have experience with finding a solid that matches the POI of the a-frame in a 416?

 

[Still alive]

Powdervalleyinc.com has federal 215 primers for sale

 

[fourfive8]

Agreed, the really good bullets are almost too expensive to be burning by the tens or hundreds attempting to find the absolute best group or regulation between soft point and solid. IIRC North Fork had worked up some guidelines for that purpose for their regular bonded soft point and their monolithic solid. I talked to them at length quite a few years ago about it but alas they sold their business to a company in Sweden that is now attempting? to restart production. I can't remember the essentials of the guidelines. No matter, because I tried them and found I could do better by working up a load for my primary bullet, a soft point like the 400 gr A Frame, and then trying to get a solid to print close to it at a velocity within my objective parameters (2300-2400 fps). The closest I came was a combination of two monolithics- the Barnes TSX and the North Fork Cup Point Solid. Although, I did get a 400 gr A Frame and a GS Custom Flat Point Solid to print fairly close to each other early on in my testing.

If I were to start over with an A Frame as the primary soft point, I certainly would try to find out if the GS Custom bullets were available- specifically their Flat Point Solid. I'd start by working up the soft point load to about 2350. And no, I don't believe Varget is more temperature sensitive than H4350. BTW, I am partial to Varget in the 416 Rem. Then once a good load is found for the soft point start working on the solid at about the same velocity. You can also look at the CEB solids. I have shot and tested some of them and they do shoot well and their terminal performance is fine, but I've always been a little leery of their funky doodle drive band spacing. I do use a crimp in a crimp groove for all 375 HH and larger. Correctly applied, a proper crimp using a Lee FCD is cheap insurance for making a reliable hunting round, especially for DG, and I have not found a downside to it. The price of using good bullets is always a bargain in the end, but like many of us think, no need to throw them away by random, silly, inefficient or wasteful shooting and testing. Good luck

Link to GS Custom for checking on ordering or availability
http://www.gscbullets.com

 

[MBaugh]

You might look at IMR4064 as I'm getting just under 2,400 fps and good accuracy with both 400 gr. A-Frames and North Fork SS with my model 70. I've been able to get close point of impact using Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer solids as well. Best of luck

 

[fourfive8]

This thread is a very good reference for the testing done with various solids.
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...-nose-solids-what-are-the-actual-facts.57387/

 

[Shootist43]

Nitrosteel, as luck would have it, I too am in need of reloading data for a new to me 416 Remington Magnum. I already have both H4350 and IMR 4064 powders on hand, as well as a good stock of 400 gr. projectiles including Swift A Frames which I'd use for hunting. But for practice I normally use a bonded Hornady bullet. What method of vibrating the cases did /do you use to get 85 Gr. of H4350 to fit? Did you see any pressure related problems or have extraction issues? MBaugh, if you don't mind sharing what is your recipe for the 416 Remington Mag using IMR 4064? Any pressure signs or extraction issues?

 

[MBaugh]

Shootist43, I'm using Hornady brass, Winchester WLRM primers. My starting load was 76 grains of IMR4064. OCL is 3.60", and run through my Lee factory crimp die. Load was accurate with no pressure or extraction signs or issues. I worked up to 77.5 grains maintaining accuracy and I do not have any pressure or extraction issues. With previously fired casings I full length re-size and trim to 2.850". After 2 firings I run through Innovative Technologies belted collet die. Velocity measured through my Labradar averages 2392 at the 77.5 grains. Rifle is a Winchester Model 70. Good luck.

 

[Nitrosteel]

I had a friend who is a machinist build a funnel for me out of aluminum - he then fitted a 12” acrylic drop tube onto it. I made a stand for it and slow pour powder through it. It works a little bit better than any vibratory method I could come up with. As far as methods that I tried - I downloaded a vibrate app on my phone and sat cases directly on it. Also tried to put a tray of cases on top of my vibratory tumbler. Also tried holding cases so that the side was touching my vibrating phone. Again, nothing worked quite as well as the drop tube.

 

[Nitrosteel]

Photo of funnel/drop tube attached

 

[Nitrosteel]

I didn’t have any pressure or extraction issues.

 

[Shootist43]

My thanks to both MBaugh and Nitrosteel for getting back with answers to my questions. I was up at my cabin over the weekend and purposefully have no internet there.

 

[RayAtkinson]

78 or 79 grs. of RL-15 with any 400 gr. bullet was my hunting load, also with 370 gr. Bridgers. and swifts......

I also used 75 grs of RL-15 with 450 gr. Woodlighs solids, RN or PPs..

I tried a lot of powders, using my chronographs and Rl-15 was the winner on all counts..Never any problems with heat, a much over rated problem and in most cases it was not heat but over loading that caused those problems.

 

[Shootist43]

78 or 79 grs. of RL-15 with any 400 gr. bullet was my hunting load, also with 370 gr. Bridgers. and swifts......

I also used 75 grs of RL-15 with 450 gr. Woodlighs solids, RN or PPs..

I tried a lot of powders, using my chronographs and Rl-15 was the winner on all counts..Never any problems with heat, a much over rated problem and in most cases it was not heat but over loading that caused those problems.

Ray, what were the chronograph results for your various loads?

 

[fourfive8]

78 or 79 grs. of RL-15 with any 400 gr. bullet was my hunting load, also with 370 gr. Bridgers. and swifts......

I also used 75 grs of RL-15 with 450 gr. Woodlighs solids, RN or PPs..

I tried a lot of powders, using my chronographs and Rl-15 was the winner on all counts..Never any problems with heat, a much over rated problem and in most cases it was not heat but over loading that caused those problems.

If I can get 2350 with a 400 gr bullet using a proven temp insensitive powder like Varget and published data sources indicate less than 49 psi for that combination and I see indicators of low pressure and my vel SDs are low, I think I will stay right there for a reliable DG hunting load. Most try to at least approach, equal or exceed the magic 2400 fps with the Rem 416 and 400 gr bullets and with certain powders that is a reasonable goal. Seems there is always a competition with the Rigby. But I would suggest that at or near the 2400 fps level, some will be near peak, practical pressure. Most of the Reloader series are known to be temperature sensitive. Sit that ammo and rifle in hot sun with fairly high ambient temps and then try to make a judgement as to the root cause of sticky extraction.... chicken or egg?... was that load too hot or was the temp too high? (BTW, the early Remington ammo did just that.) Really doesn't matter because the potential problem exists as with any cartridge and pressure and temperature are inter-connected.