416 Ruger VS 416 Rem Mag

[RootballExpress]

Hello everyone,

For anyone who uses or has used these two cartridges, which one do you prefer and why? Experiences? Kills? Performance?

Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say about this!

 

[USMA84DAB]

No decision to be made - Hornady already decided for you by refusing to make any .416 Ruger ammo or cases for 2+ years. They have pretty much killed the cartridge.

 

[ACM]

There is basically no difference in regards to performance. Just have to make the decision regarding gun, ammo availability, and short vs magnum action.

 

[Sarg]

Owned Ruger but used both, as said same same in performance but harder & will get worse to find .416 Ruger ammo, plus you can get the 416Rem in a very fine Winchester Model 70 & that will work unlike a lot of Rugers !!

 

[CoElkHunter]

I will buy a Ruger .416 shortly ONLY because I found a bunch of NOS brass at pre Covid prices at a LGS and have dies coming. But other than that, like others have said, don't buy one and look for a .416 Remington. I would say a .416 Rigby, but since the last affordable rifles with the used CZ 550 limited availability and prices have gone through the roof, your better off with the Remington cartridge. Twenty years from now the Rigby will fade BACK into obscurity due to a lack of reasonably priced rifles for the masses.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

I will buy a Ruger .416 shortly ONLY because I found a bunch of NOS brass at pre Covid prices at a LGS and have dies coming. But other than that, like others have said, don't buy one and look for a .416 Remington. I would say a .416 Rigby, but since the last affordable rifles with the used CZ 550 limited availability and prices have gone through the roof, your better off with the Remington cartridge. Twenty years from now the Rigby will fade BACK into obscurity due to a lack of reasonably priced rifles for the masses.

I'm reading this as a heads up to buy any 416 Rigby brass that i can find.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm reading this as a heads up to buy any 416 Rigby brass that i can find.

Yes.

 

[The Engineer]

The performance would be essentially the same. The issue I have with the 416 Ruger is it is a much higher pressure cartridge and therefore much more susceptible to extraction issues. A PH I know was mauled when the high pressure 416 locked up the action.

 

[ldmay375]

The Ruger actually, less SAAMI MAOP than the Remington. Depending on the brass, with the same bullets seated to length for Ruger 3.4" type actions and 416 Remington in a Winchester Model 70 3.6", the case capacities can be less than 2 grains of water difference.
I have both.

I have shot a few of the 416 Rugers quite a bit and never had an extraction issue with a non-flawed chamber and proper operating firearm. I have seen tiny chamber flaws that caused very difficult extraction with well under maximum loads. These required honing /polishing to alleviate the issues.

 

[CAustin]

Own a 416 Ruger Guide Gun the dies the brass plus ten boxes of factory ammo. Three of my four Big Five were taken with this rifle. No extraction issues in my experience.

 

[TOBY458]

The Ruger actually, less SAAMI MAOP than the Remington. Depending on the brass, with the same bullets seated to length for Ruger 3.4" type actions and 416 Remington in a Winchester Model 70 3.6", the case capacities can be less than 2 grains of water difference.
I have both.

I have shot a few of the 416 Rugers quite a bit and never had an extraction issue with a non-flawed chamber and proper operating firearm. I have seen tiny chamber flaws that caused very difficult extraction with well under maximum loads. These required honing /polishing to alleviate the issues.

The biggest issue with extraction is caused by the lack of taper in the 416 Ruger cartridge case. The 416 REM Mag doesn’t have as much as the Rigby, and the Ruger has even less. I’ve used the 416 Rem Mag quite a bit and have never had a problem, but I keep my loads around 2350 fps. The 416 Ruger rifles I’ve owned never had problems either, but I’d say it’s more prone to issues than the other two cartridges. Although I’d think if pressure is kept within reasonable ranges with any of them, you shouldn’t have a problem with modern propellants. But with that said, I prefer the 416 Rem Mag.

 

[ldmay375]

A quick web search shows Sportman's Warehouse and Mid South having 416 Ruger ammo in stock. It is on the shelves here, in at least 3 local stores. It has been pretty available locally. Locally, usually where there was the Remington, there was the Ruger.

 

[ldmay375]

The biggest issue with extraction is caused by the lack of taper in the 416 Ruger cartridge case. The 416 REM Mag doesn’t have as much as the Rigby, and the Ruger has even less. I’ve used the 416 Rem Mag quite a bit and have never had a problem, but I keep my loads around 2350 fps. The 416 Ruger rifles I’ve owned never had problems either, but I’d say it’s more prone to issues than the other two cartridges. Although I’d think if pressure is kept within reasonable ranges with any of them, you shouldn’t have a problem with modern propellants. But with that said, I prefer the 416 Rem Mag.

Kind of like Boddington trying to locate the early sources of the 416 Remington extraction issues.

Functional rifle and sensible loads eliminate lots of potential issues, regardless of cartridge or rifle.

I have loaded the 416 Ruger with the 350 TTSX to ~2560 from a 20" barrel, and shot quite a few, without extraction, primer, nor hard bolt lift issues. The original target velocity was 2500, which is closer to where I am now. But, if the 2560 was over pressure, it certainly did not show up as an extraction issue.

 

[ldmay375]

Hello everyone,

For anyone who uses or has used these two cartridges, which one do you prefer and why? Experiences? Kills? Performance?

Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say about this!

This is load data from Federal, for the 416 Remington, Rigby, and Ruger. Federal is a member of SAAMI, we will assume all these loads are SAAMI pressure compliant. Since there is no disclaimer otherwise.

As loaded, the same bullet coming out of 3 different 416 cartridges, all are virtually the same performance.

 

[The Engineer]

I was not trying to start a controversy just passing on an observation.

That observation was based on and supported by a video of an unexpected lion charge while hunting buffalo. The PH and the client each fired a shot and hit the lion as it charged. The lion hit the PH and had him down. The client was desperately trying to open the bolt on his 416 (I believe it was a Ruger) and could not open the bolt.

To a point made in an earlier response, I also have noted cases with a low taper tend to "stick" to the chamber walls a bit more than highly tapered cases. I particularly note the increased force required to lift the bolt on my 2 280AIs vs. my standard 280. The highly tapered 375 H7H case not only extracts with ease, it also feeds very smoothly. That may be one of the reasons the 375 H&H is so popular in Africa.

While a straight high-pressure round may not be an issue under "normal" conditions, at high temperatures which increase chamber pressure combined with the ever-present dust when traveling over dirt trails in the back of an open truck; I believe there is a higher propensity for a high-pressure straight wall case to stick. That is the reason I tend to stick to "classic" African cartridges developed in the Cordite error when high temperature vs. pressure was a real issue.

We are blessed to have all the choices we have now. As a nearly 80-year-old hunter I have tried a lot of different rifle/cartridge combinations. As an Engineer I am quite aware of the advantages of stainless steel and composites but, alas; I am a sentimental old man that still preferes blued steel and walnut.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I'm reading this as a heads up to buy any 416 Rigby brass that i can find.

I havent reloaded yet but just picked up a 416 Rigby and have bought 200 factory rounds so far. Availability seems to get slimmer by the week.

 

[Northern Shooter]

They have virtually the same ballistics. The Ruger will do it in a standard length action with slightly less chamber pressure than the RemMag.

416 Ruger ammo appears to be the cheaper of the two but not as widely available, and only produced by Hornady.

I think it really comes down to what rifle you want. Do you want a Ruger M77 or a Model 70?

Both are also available in a handful of straight pull rifles.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I was not trying to start a controversy just passing on an observation.

That observation was based on and supported by a video of an unexpected lion charge while hunting buffalo. The PH and the client each fired a shot and hit the lion as it charged. The lion hit the PH and had him down. The client was desperately trying to open the bolt on his 416 (I believe it was a Ruger) and could not open the bolt.

To a point made in an earlier response, I also have noted cases with a low taper tend to "stick" to the chamber walls a bit more than highly tapered cases. I particularly note the increased force required to lift the bolt on my 2 280AIs vs. my standard 280. The highly tapered 375 H7H case not only extracts with ease, it also feeds very smoothly. That may be one of the reasons the 375 H&H is so popular in Africa.

While a straight high-pressure round may not be an issue under "normal" conditions, at high temperatures which increase chamber pressure combined with the ever-present dust when traveling over dirt trails in the back of an open truck; I believe there is a higher propensity for a high-pressure straight wall case to stick. That is the reason I tend to stick to "classic" African cartridges developed in the Cordite error when high temperature vs. pressure was a real issue.

We are blessed to have all the choices we have now. As a nearly 80-year-old hunter I have tried a lot of different rifle/cartridge combinations. As an Engineer I am quite aware of the advantages of stainless steel and composites but, alas; I am a sentimental old man that still preferes blued steel and walnut.

I agree with what you're saying. However, the Rigby's shoulder is a LITTLE abrupt don't you think? I'm surprised that cartridge wasn't designed with more taper like other African hunting cartridges back in the day?

 

[Neil Molendyk]

I havent reloaded yet but just picked up a 416 Rigby and have bought 200 factory rounds so far. Availability seems to get slimmer by the week.

If I was a betting man, I'll wager that you soon will be reloading

 

[Neil Molendyk]

I agree with what you're saying. However, the Rigby's shoulder is a LITTLE abrupt don't you think? I'm surprised that cartridge wasn't designed with more taper like other African hunting cartridges back in the day?

I was told or read somewhere that Rigby designed the 416 case with the shoulder like it is so that it wouldn't require a belt for head spacing. And it gave Roy Weatherby an opportunity to add a propriatay belt.