450/400 3" question

[sgt_zim]

If this has been addressed in another thread, I can't find it.

I think my oldest son will be in the market for a double soon, and my thought is to steer him to this cartridge, at least for his first bite at the double apple.

This isn't considered a stopper, is it? The biggest rifle he's ever shot is a 9.3x62, but at 45 - 50 ft lbs of recoil, should be a nice break-in to the world of big guns, milder even than 416 or 404 Jeff.

A 400 gr bullet regulated at 2050 seems to be in the same ball park on KE as 375 H&H and 9.3x62 - around 3700 ft lbs, although obviously bigger frontal area than .375 or .366

 

[MacJenkins]

It's a really nice cartridge IMO, Use to have one in a Heym, now have one in a Westley Richards.

I don't konw what exactly is considered a stopper, but it is a lot nicer to shoot than my 450's and 470. Then my 500's are the next jump.

If a guy was mostly going for just hunt Buffalo an occasional elephant I think its a fine caliber. I would ask to meet up with a forum member in your area for him to shoot some various calibers and see.

Also 2150 FPS is the historic velocity for a 400 grain bullet in this cartdrige.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

I have a falling block 450/400, not a double, but yea I think you have the right of it.

The 450-400 is a good 100yard and in dg hunting caliber, and some newer ammunition is closer to 2100/2150 fps (Hornady specifically). What gives it some real killing power is the slightly narrower bore of .410" with a 400gr bullet this gives you an SD of .34 so the penetration on them is excellent.

However, they are lower energy as you noted above, and this is both good and bad, good in that they are easy on the shoulder, bad in that it is not a true stopper.
Were I to define it, I would say the "stoppers" start around .458 and go up from there.

I also have a 500ne in a falling block, and while that is a true stopper, I would MUCH rather spend a range day shooting the 450/400.

The age old adage of: "powerful misses don't kill" is why the 450/400 is so nice, it has all the killing power you need, but stops short of getting in the way of accuracy due to recoil.

 

[V.Veritas]

PM sent.

 

[ftrovato]

If this has been addressed in another thread, I can't find it.

I think my oldest son will be in the market for a double soon, and my thought is to steer him to this cartridge, at least for his first bite at the double apple.

This isn't considered a stopper, is it? The biggest rifle he's ever shot is a 9.3x62, but at 45 - 50 ft lbs of recoil, should be a nice break-in to the world of big guns, milder even than 416 or 404 Jeff.

A 400 gr bullet regulated at 2050 seems to be in the same ball park on KE as 375 H&H and 9.3x62 - around 3700 ft lbs, although obviously bigger frontal area than .375 or .366

Sounds perfect.

Food for thought. Just about any large double caliber can shoot like a 40 caliber with minimum powder charges and be as deadly as a 40 cal with them. Then as he seasons, add more powder and heavier bullets.

Naturally someone has to reload ammo to make this possible.

 

[rookhawk]

If this has been addressed in another thread, I can't find it.

I think my oldest son will be in the market for a double soon, and my thought is to steer him to this cartridge, at least for his first bite at the double apple.

This isn't considered a stopper, is it? The biggest rifle he's ever shot is a 9.3x62, but at 45 - 50 ft lbs of recoil, should be a nice break-in to the world of big guns, milder even than 416 or 404 Jeff.

A 400 gr bullet regulated at 2050 seems to be in the same ball park on KE as 375 H&H and 9.3x62 - around 3700 ft lbs, although obviously bigger frontal area than .375 or .366

The evidence is self evident that a 404J or 450-400 has significantly better results on dangerous game than a 375HH. Pondoro et. al have noted this observation for more than a century.

A 375HH averages about 38-40lbs of felt recoil in a magazine rifle. A 450-400 produces 40lbs-44lbs of felt recoil in a double rifle.

Imperceptible differences in recoil yet you're getting a lot more lethality. I think your idea is smart.