450 Marlin in a bolt action rifle?

[Boyd Brooks]

I want to build a unusual rifle and have a commercial Mauser action. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on a 450 Marlin in a bolt action, or might even have one that you would share your insights about.
Would it qualify for dangerous game in Africa?

 

[Red Leg]

For dangerous game it would be marginal at best. This round is essentially a 45-70. A mid-forty's sweet spot when used on dangerous game begins with 400 gr bullets. Most data that I have seen from guide guns and the like show that weight leaving the barrel at 1900 fps and hitting game at 1700 or so at 100 meters with the 450 Marlin. That is a prescription for a wounded buff on anything but a perfect presentation. I personally haven't seen one of those yet.

I wouldn't think about trying to brain an elephant with those ballistics.

Set up with a quality scope, it would work fine on a leopard, but not make the energy minimums in some places. I am sure it would also kill a lion, though I personally would want something a bit more versatile and harder hitting.

It would be fine for PG assuming you are willing to limit your range.

It would also be a fine bear rifle with the same range limitations. However, my last two black bears were both killed just inside 200 yards. At that range, you would firing with a howitzer's trajectory, and hitting them with little better than pistol velocity.

Why not a 9.3 on that action? One hardly sees them on every gun rack, and it is a far more versatile cartridge.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

For dangerous game it would be marginal at best. This round is essentially a 45-70. A mid-forty's sweet spot when used on dangerous game begins with 400 gr bullets. Most data that I have seen from guide guns and the like show that weight leaving the barrel at 1900 fps and hitting game at 1700 or so at 100 meters with the 450 Marlin. That is a prescription for a wounded buff on anything but a perfect presentation. I personally haven't seen one of those yet.

I wouldn't think about trying to brain an elephant with those ballistics.

Set up with a quality scope, it would work fine on a leopard, but not make the energy minimums in some places. I am sure it would also kill a lion, though I personally would want something a bit more versatile and harder hitting.

It would be fine for PG assuming you are willing to limit your range.

It would also be a fine bear rifle with the same range limitations. However, my last two black bears were both killed just inside 200 yards. At that range, you would firing with a howitzer's trajectory, and hitting them with little better than pistol velocity.

Why not a 9.3 on that action? One hardly sees them on every gun rack, and it is a far more versatile cartridge.

I was thinking 375 or greater and I like to be different! What about a 416 Taylor?

 

[Red Leg]

How about a 10.75x68? Then you could be really different.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

How about a 10.75x68? Then you could be really different.

You caught me off guard with that one! With a quick google search I think the 404 Jeffery's would be a better choice but I don't think it will work in my standard length action.

 

[Red Leg]

The 10.75 was designed for a standard action.

 

[matt85]

404 Jeffery will fit a standard length action and if your goal is to have something out of the norm then its a good choice.

if you wanted to try something really different, you could neck up a 458 WM case to .474". ive seen this done with the 458 Lott creating the 470 Capstick but ive never heard of it being done to the 458 WM.

-matt

 

[sestoppelman]

There was a bolt action .450 on Gunbroker recently, might still be there. Think it was built on a Ruger 77 action.

 

[sestoppelman]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/756499354

 

[crs]

Will your action handle a .45-90? That would be unusual.
That cartridge will push a 450 grain bullet to 2150 fps MV from a 26 inch barrel.
You can take a 300 grain bullet up to 2600-2800 fps MV.

So you could go from prairie dogs to pachyderms!

 

[Boyd Brooks]

The action is a Dumoulin Herstal S.A. action made in Belgium. It is a commercial standard blued Mauser 98 action. I shoot the Norma mags and love them (308 and 358)and know the 416 Taylor is just a necked out 358 Norma mag.

 

[Milehighshooter]

On a short action or a Yugo mauser, sure , it'll make a nice little thumper. But a DG gun it will not be. You've got enough room in your action for a 458 Win Mag, and you can load down to 450M levels. Load data for bolts is scarce, and any book data will be for lower pressure lever loads. However, 458x2" American data is fine. It's basically the same thing.

 

[Ray B]

I forget where I saw it, but someone wildcatted the 404 Jeffery to fit in a unlengthened standard action by trimming a couple tenths of an inch off the neck, leaving the case body alone. the overall case length was shortened to fit a standard action while retaining the same powder capacity. Seems to me it worked best with 350 - 400 grain bullets.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

458 win mag might be a better choice, 404 Jeffery's brass is impossible to find in Canada. The .423 diameter bullet are just as impossible to find. Not as many big bore fans, people here think a 375H&H is way out there!I do like my big bores though.

 

[CTDolan]

If you want a relatively easy project and yet something of a hammer (and a bit out of the norm), go with the 416 Ruger. It’s got enough more powder capacity than the 416 Taylor to matter, is available in factory form and would work splendidly in an action designed for a standard-length cartridge (and, should you reload, there’s a large variety of projectiles on the market, much more so than any other 40+ caliber, other than .458).

 

[Boyd Brooks]

If you want a relatively easy project and yet something of a hammer (and a bit out of the norm), go with the 416 Ruger. It’s got enough more powder capacity than the 416 Taylor to matter, is available in factory form and would work splendidly in an action designed for a standard-length cartridge (and, should you reload, there’s a large variety of projectiles on the market, much more so than any other 40+ caliber, other than .458).

The 416 Ruger was one of the cartridges I was contemplating. I will give it a little more research on availability of brass in my area. My biggest struggle is finding reloading components in Ontario where I live.

 

[AZDAVE]

Since you are looking for something different. For reference I have a 450 Marlin built on a short action Ruger. Loading it to bolt action level vs lever gun will get you a good bit more than you would expect. I have loads for the 350gr Aframes to 400 gr softs and solids that will get you above what can be done in a lever gun. It lacks the case capacity to push 480-500 gr fast enough to really use them well. The 400 gr level will exceed any of the 45/70 plusP's that are currently out there but lack in getting a sectional density above .300 . Look at most of the load info for the 458 American 2 in as a reference baseline. Putting it in a long action isn't really needed (Could seat the bullets out and get some more case capacity would be the only real reason to) But since your question was on using a mauser action. You will need to open the bolt face, do the required magazine and open rails to get feeding to operate correctly. For what it would cost I would recommend just buying a ruger short action in 300 or 338 RCM and just rebarrel and load and shoot. there is my .02 worth. sounds like a fun project and full speed ahead and look forward to seeing your completed rifle.

 

[AZDAVE]

here is a pic or the 450 marlin Bolt gun

 

[IvW]

For 400 gr bullets stick to a 416 caliber.

 

[fourfive8]

"Something different" usually means "with consequences". Like ease of re-sale, scarcity of load data brass/ammo/bullets, etc. Whatever

While fairly common, a 416 Taylor would be most practical in a standard length action. For different maybe a 411 KDF