.458 Lott case sized thru .416 Taylor dies?

[CoElkHunter]

Would/could this work to create a true .416 Lott? The Lott case is slightly longer than the .458 WM case used to create the .416 Taylor, but the once fired .458 WM cases I have don’t seem to need full length resizing anyway in the same rifle (my only) .458 WM? Maybe this has already been done?
Maybe I’m dreaming? Thoughts?

 

[mdwest]

I think it could work... and would be an interesting concept..

but..

why?

416 Taylor is already pushing a 400gr .416 projectile 2350 fps (same ballistics as the .416 rigby..)

Are you looking to get some additional velocity? (generally the reason for the Lott over the 458 win mag.. where some (many?) would argue that pushing a 500 gr projectile 2100-2200 FPS isnt quite enough.. and they need a bit more speed)..

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I just asked a gunsmith friend on Facebook this question. Turns out you can. He used .416 Taylor dies to make .416 Ruger cases in the past before he got proper dies. I can inbox you his email ID if you like Interesting fellow

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think it could work... and would be an interesting concept..

but..

why?

416 Taylor is already pushing a 400gr .416 projectile 2350 fps (same ballistics as the .416 rigby..)

Are you looking to get some additional velocity? (generally the reason for the Lott over the 458 win mag.. where some (many?) would argue that pushing a 500 gr projectile 2100-2200 FPS isnt quite enough.. and they need a bit more speed)..

mdwest,
Yes, your right, there is no real logical reason. I’ve ordered some .416 Taylor dies to run my .458 WM cases through (still don’t have a .416 Taylor rifle yet), but I was looking at the dimensions of the Lott and I thought MAYBE this might work? It’s probably not needed and not cost effective, but there is the .416 Weatherby, with much more expensive cases and dies? I thought (dangerous!) one might be able to run a standard .416 Taylor through this new .416 Taylor Plus (.416 Lott). I don’t know if the freebore would be too much? Anyway, I just thought I’d throw this out there? Maybe somebody has already done this? On another thread, OP stated the .416 Remington was a Lott necked down to .416, but apparently not, as I’ve read here recently the .416 Remington was based off the 8mm Remington. Maybe this entire concept is a waste of interest? Thanks!
CEH

 

[CoElkHunter]

I just asked a gunsmith friend on Facebook this question. Turns out you can. He used .416 Taylor dies to make .416 Ruger cases in the past before he got proper dies. I can inbox you his email ID if you like Interesting fellow

Hoss,
Very interesting! I’m wondering if the case shoulder of the Ruger is close/exact to the Taylor? I’ll have to do some more research. Thanks!
CEH

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hoss,
Very interesting! I’m wondering if the case shoulder of the Ruger is close/exact to the Taylor? I’ll have to do some more research. Thanks!
CEH

Their ballistics are a mirror reflection , yes . I used to like the .416 Remington Magnum myself. In a Winchester Model 70 , would be very Useful in Grizzly bear country . Sadly , l made do all these years with a .375 HH Magnum

 

[bruce moulds]

Hoss,
Very interesting! I’m wondering if the case shoulder of the Ruger is close/exact to the Taylor? I’ll have to do some more research. Thanks!
CEH

without checking, the 416 ruger is fatter than h&h diameter, so the taylor die would be less than ideal.
if you want a taylor+, surely the 416 rem mag would be an obvious place to go.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

without checking, the 416 ruger is fatter than h&h diameter, so the taylor die would be less than ideal.
if you want a taylor+, surely the 416 rem mag would be an obvious place to go.
bruce.

Bruce,
Your absolutely right. There really isn’t a need for a necked down .458 Lott using .416 Taylor dies. I was thinking it might work, and unlike many of the more obscure cartridges mentioned here on AH, one would have the dies and plentiful .458 Lott cases to create the cartridge. But, maybe it’s a moot point? I also thought since one can shoot .458WM in a Lott, the freebore would be the same shooting a standard .416 Taylor in a .416 Taylor Plus (Lott)? I guess I’m thinking too much!
CEH

 

[bruce moulds]

ceh,
while you could do it, it is just more complicated, harder, and more expensive.
also, sooner or later you would need to size the lower case, and would then need a special die, as opposed to an off the shelf one.
nothing wrong with thinking.
bruce.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

But possible it is , very much so ! Just not worth the excess effort

 

[tarbe]

Quote: a standard .416 Taylor in a .416 Taylor Plus (Lott)?

This would really be a mess. Your Taylor case would now be an odd 416 Taylor with a neck about 1/10th of an inch long and a body way too long to go back into a Taylor chamber.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Quote: a standard .416 Taylor in a .416 Taylor Plus (Lott)?

This would really be a mess. Your Taylor case would now be an odd 416 Taylor with a neck about 1/10th of an inch long and a body way too long to go back into a Taylor chamber.

Your right! The barrel chamber would have to be forward to fit the longer .416 Lott cartridge. Kind of like the .458WM fitting into a .458 Lott chamber?

 

[bruce moulds]

the 416 taylor has a shoulder.
the 458 lott does not.
thus the taylor resembles a short 416 rem and the lott resembles a long 458 win.
bruce.

 

[fourfive8]

Yah, what's the point? If you want a short 416 (Taylor) then simply get 416 Taylor brass or resize 458 WM down to 416 .

If you want Lott length (375 HH parent length) then simply get a 416 Rem Mag because that is what it is.

Now theoretically you could simply back out a 416 Taylor sizing die and run in 458 Lott brass- maybe massaging the upper body and basically neck sizing the Lott case. How well it would work depends on how close it ends up to whatever chamber you have cut. But still what's the point?? it is still basically a 416 Rem Mag by definition. Standardized chamber reamers, sizing dies and brass are already available for the 416 Rem Mag.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yah, what's the point? If you want a short 416 (Taylor) then simply get 416 Taylor brass or resize 458 WM down to 416 .

If you want Lott length (375 HH parent length) then simply get a 416 Rem Mag because that is what it is.

Now theoretically you could simply back out a 416 Taylor sizing die and run in 458 Lott brass- maybe massaging the upper body and basically neck sizing the Lott case. How well it would work depends on how close it ends up to whatever chamber you have cut. But still what's the point?? it is still basically a 416 Rem Mag by definition. Standardized chamber reamers, sizing dies and brass are already available for the 416 Rem Mag.

Yep, your right. My point was using .458 Lott brass through a .416 Taylor die to create a .416 longer Taylor cartridge. But, it is a moot point with today’s .416 cartridges. The Taylor cartridge was developed in 1970? as a go between with unavailable and/or costly .416 Rigby rifles/cartridges and NOTHING else until the .416 Remington came available in 1989. So, I guess this idea of mine is much too late to be a cost effective and practical idea. I would still like to see what this cartridge would look like and maybe will attempt it as an experiment. Other than that, back to reality! Thanks!
CEH

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Isn’t the Lott case shorter than the 416 rem mag. A 416 Hoffman is similar to the rem mag, but has a shorter neck and longer body, or vice versa. Both of those would be better. I think Lott shortened the H&H case to seat the Winchester magnum bullets to magazine length and use the canalure.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yah, what's the point? If you want a short 416 (Taylor) then simply get 416 Taylor brass or resize 458 WM down to 416 .

If you want Lott length (375 HH parent length) then simply get a 416 Rem Mag because that is what it is.

Now theoretically you could simply back out a 416 Taylor sizing die and run in 458 Lott brass- maybe massaging the upper body and basically neck sizing the Lott case. How well it would work depends on how close it ends up to whatever chamber you have cut. But still what's the point?? it is still basically a 416 Rem Mag by definition. Standardized chamber reamers, sizing dies and brass are already available for the 416 Rem Mag.

Again your right! But Weatherby necked down their.460 Weatherby to .416 to create the .416 Weatherby in 1990? But, you had/have to buy THEIR cases and find the expensive dies? But they do have production rifles for that caliber. So, I guess it’s strike three for my idea! Better luck for me next time!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Isn’t the Lott case shorter than the 416 rem mag. A 416 Hoffman is similar to the rem mag, but has a shorter neck and longer body, or vice versa. Both of those would be better. I think Lott shortened the H&H case to seat the Winchester magnum bullets to magazine length and use the canalure.

Don’t know? Ask Bruce or Hoss or another expert. I’ll check out the .416 Hoffman. Thanks!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Isn’t the Lott case shorter than the 416 rem mag. A 416 Hoffman is similar to the rem mag, but has a shorter neck and longer body, or vice versa. Both of those would be better. I think Lott shortened the H&H case to seat the Winchester magnum bullets to magazine length and use the canalure.

2.850 case length for the Remington and 2.800 for the Lott. Wikipedia.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Quote: a standard .416 Taylor in a .416 Taylor Plus (Lott)?

This would really be a mess. Your Taylor case would now be an odd 416 Taylor with a neck about 1/10th of an inch long and a body way too long to go back into a Taylor chamber.

Very true! Lott extended the .458 WM chamber to fit his new Lott cartridge ( a longer .458 WM)?