458 Lott Loads

[Warbird782]

I just acquired a Kimber Caprivi in 458 Lott and I am looking to load for it. I am strongly considering 500 Grain Barnes Triple Shocks for my softs but I am unsure which solids to load. I have read that flat nose solids perform better than round nose solids so I am looking at Woodleighs or Noslers solids. Is there an merit to this? Do any of you load any of these in your Lott's? What are good powders to start with?

 

[Warbird782]

Any 458 Lott hand loaders in here?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I don't have a Lott, so not much load advice. Yest flat nosed solids have a better overall reputation than round nose, but there's more to it than just having a flat nose, the shoulder angle also comes into play. If I may, I would recommend the 420gr CEB hollow point mated up with the 450gr CEB solid that is essentially the 420 hollow point without the hole. Yes, its not the 500gr typical weight used in the Lott. But I don't think it matters.

I'd ask @Panielsen about his loads for his .458Win and perhaps work from there.

 

[Warbird782]

Thank you @PHOENIX PHIL for the advise. I will look to the CE line of bullets.

 

[buy-a-donkey]

Indeed I have a Lott and have killed two buff and two elephants with it. Also got a chance to kill a large kudu at 150 yards and a nuisance baboon with it. Overall, probably fired over 250 rounds through it total.
Mine is a custom left hand Weatherby Mark IV smother by Bobby Pitchford Custom Gunworks. Shorter barrel than most with only NEw England Custom gunsights (fiber front).
Now, I am a HUGE Barnes fan, but two years back I couldn't find any of their solids. They were converting from round nose to flat or something and they were nowhere to be found.
I was disappointed as they oddly printed the same as the X bullets even though they are radically different bullets. So, I looked elsewhere.
I found North Fork and will never look back. All of their 458 bullets are always in stock and you can buy starter packs to try them out.
I bought the 500gr soft and solids. They are accurate, print the same and I feel the design allows for a little more speed than standard designs as they are "bore riding" or something. I know that I wasn't near max published loads in the Barnes manual before I was seeing the same velocities their max loads were yielding.
The softs penetrate and leave devastation behind. The solids were never recovered from the elephant skulls as they passed completely through.
I would be more than happy to give you my exact load tomorrow when back near my bench.
Final word of advice... Norma brass. It lasts forever. However, I only hunt with new brass, this makes practice and load development way easier.
Hope that helps at all. It's a great cartridge.

 

[Warbird782]

@buy-a-donkey Thank you so much for the info. Please pm me any data you have for the North Fork bullets. I do plan on buying Norma brass. I have studied all 458 softs and solids and I have looked at the NF's. I like the fact the softs and solids will print the same groups. I may have to get some sample packs and get loaded up.

 

[CAustin]

Warbird good for you on acquiring a 458 Lott. I have one in a Ruger Model One and I love it. I don't hand load but have fired both Hornady and Federal Premium Cape Shock....and Bear Claws through the rifle. All did very well but Hornady DGS flat nose did the best.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@buy-a-donkey Thank you so much for the info. Please pm me any data you have for the North Fork bullets. I do plan on buying Norma brass. I have studied all 458 softs and solids and I have looked at the NF's. I like the fact the softs and solids will print the same groups. I may have to get some sample packs and get loaded up.

Love the NF's too. I've sent any of their solids through my .375H&H or my .458B&M but I'm sure they'd do well, very similar design to the CEB's. I've also used the NF bonded cores in 7x57, .308 Win, .300WM and .375H&H out hunting, just nothing but great performance.

The CEB's shoot to virtually the same POI between the Raptors and Solids. Maybe an inch apart at 100 yards, well beyond typical DG range. The one pics show 3 Raptors at 100 yards in the first pic. The other pic shows 6 of the 450gr solids with two different powder loads printing a bit lower and a perhaps just a bit left of the Raptors.

The third pic with the micrometer shows a 4 shot group at 200 yards using the CEB 260gr SOCOM, putting that on here for @Panielsen too. These are all out of my .458B&M which has ballistics wedged right between a .458Win and Lott.

 

[Bruce]

DAMN GOOD SHOOTING... NO DG animal will survive this when you are around, Phoenix Phil !!!!

 

[buy-a-donkey]

As promised, I got to the important stuff this morning... Work can wait...
The load I used was available on Barnes.com and I used the H4895 500gr solid data as a starting point.
The load was a kitten until I hit the "max" of 75gr of H4895. The listed velocity you might get is 2217fps. See attached image...
The shots are ascending a grain at a time. You can see the velocity slowly make it's way up 2228,2240,2257. Yes, I have a bench at my farm, so I can load one at a time.
Honestly, I went all the way up to 76 gr. of powder and saw muzzle velocities of 2,315, but the Barnes manual was super accurate about the load density of 105% at 75 gr. If you try and stuff the Lott too full on a compressed load, you'll find that you get seating issues and will tend to "wrinkle" the neck. No bueno...
Speaking with my buddy and PH Johan, he wondered why I wanted anything over the 2,225 I was getting with the 75gr load. I think he's right and I can honestly say that the Lott started feeling a little "nastier" on recoil with just that last extra grain to get to 76gr and 2,315fps. Most reloaders realize there is a point of diminishing returns when adding powder to get those few extra fps...
Can the Lott shoot this bullet faster? 100% you bet your ass. Will it kick like a mule? Read previous... The trick was the powder. I couldn't physically put any more H4895 into the case. Another powder could probably do it, but no more real-estate for the H4895. So, why that powder? Did you see in the picture how stead I was able to work up the load? That stuff is very predictable. Also, it's the Hogdon Extreme line, so it's very resistant to temperature fluctuations. It's an issue. If you don't believe me, lay your cartridge belt in the sun and pop one off with lesser powder. Especially if you loaded them over the winter...

So, start with 74 gr of H4895 and feel free to work up to the 75gr. I had NO pressure signs, the thing shoots lights out and recoil is completely manageable.
Hope that helps.

 

[buy-a-donkey]

I now realize that "proof is in the pictures"...

Three good animals taken on last safari with the NF 500 grainers and the load posted above at 2,225 fps. No bullets were recovered. Not even the two softs in the buffs.

First buff took it broadside, wheeled around and took another one from the other side. He dropped, kicked, grunted twice and expired.
Second buff was shot from a slight elevation. Bullet entered 2/3 up 5 rib back and angled it's way through both lungs and broke his leg on opposite side as this was a quartering away shot(soft remember...). He dropped, but got up (as those tough guys will do). When he stood, he was pointed away. Shot two hit his spine and his legs dropped. When on the ground he was occluded by granite rocks. By the time we swung left to finish him, there was no real reason, but gave him a third as he deserved quick exit (as do all our quarry) just in case he was faking it...
Point on the softs is that ALL of them performed very well on the buffs. The second bull's second shot was found inside the front hide of his "brisket". People who have trouble with the "texas heart shot" and feel you need solids most likely have experienced hitting the part of the gut containing one of the stomachs filled with cud. This crud is most likely very capable of stopping an expanding bullet. I've never had an issue and I wasn't going to make the skinners sort through his guts to trace the path of that bullet.

The elephant was one shot with the NF solid. I am proud to say that the shot went off, he snapped his head back and trunk up and literally rolled backwards. One shake of his leg and that was it. I practiced like the dickens because it's a personal nightmare of mine to wound such an amazing and aged animal.
The bullet entered mid-low skull between the eye and balck tuft of hair marking the ear hole. It angled up slightly and hit the mark. It then left the other side at the upper fold of the opposite ear and lord knows where it ended up.
Once again, I was VERY disappointed to not be able to find the barnes solids at they were and the X bullets are wonderful. However, for DG, I will only shoot North Fork. My PH buddies received care packages of "industrial check weights" themselves and now shoot the NF "check weights" in their guns...

 

[buy-a-donkey]

Realized I contradicted myself above. What I meant to say was, "none of the initial shots were recovered". We did find the second shot on the second buffalo... Apologies. My crew is coming in this morning and actually have the guff to interrupt my hunting message board entires with work!
Some people! ; )

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Realized I contradicted myself above. What I meant to say was, "none of the initial shots were recovered". We did find the second shot on the second buffalo... Apologies. My crew is coming in this morning and actually have the guff to interrupt my hunting message board entires with work!
Some people! ; )

Good to have another NF fan on AH. If you're going to DSC this year, you should stop by the NF booth and give your feedback to the NF gents. Good guys who appreciate any feedback.

 

[Panielsen]

I now realize that "proof is in the pictures"...

Three good animals taken on last safari with the NF 500 grainers and the load posted above at 2,225 fps. No bullets were recovered. Not even the two softs in the buffs.

First buff took it broadside, wheeled around and took another one from the other side. He dropped, kicked, grunted twice and expired.
Second buff was shot from a slight elevation. Bullet entered 2/3 up 5 rib back and angled it's way through both lungs and broke his leg on opposite side as this was a quartering away shot(soft remember...). He dropped, but got up (as those tough guys will do). When he stood, he was pointed away. Shot two hit his spine and his legs dropped. When on the ground he was occluded by granite rocks. By the time we swung left to finish him, there was no real reason, but gave him a third as he deserved quick exit (as do all our quarry) just in case he was faking it...
Point on the softs is that ALL of them performed very well on the buffs. The second bull's second shot was found inside the front hide of his "brisket". People who have trouble with the "texas heart shot" and feel you need solids most likely have experienced hitting the part of the gut containing one of the stomachs filled with cud. This crud is most likely very capable of stopping an expanding bullet. I've never had an issue and I wasn't going to make the skinners sort through his guts to trace the path of that bullet.

The elephant was one shot with the NF solid. I am proud to say that the shot went off, he snapped his head back and trunk up and literally rolled backwards. One shake of his leg and that was it. I practiced like the dickens because it's a personal nightmare of mine to wound such an amazing and aged animal.
The bullet entered mid-low skull between the eye and balck tuft of hair marking the ear hole. It angled up slightly and hit the mark. It then left the other side at the upper fold of the opposite ear and lord knows where it ended up.
Once again, I was VERY disappointed to not be able to find the barnes solids at they were and the X bullets are wonderful. However, for DG, I will only shoot North Fork. My PH buddies received care packages of "industrial check weights" themselves and now shoot the NF "check weights" in their guns...

View attachment 52837 View attachment 52838 View attachment 52839

You used Cape to Cairo as well I see! Great outfit, I just got back from hunting my buff with them! My PH was "Joe" Johan, was that yours as well?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

DAMN GOOD SHOOTING... NO DG animal will survive this when you are around, Phoenix Phil !!!!

Thanks Bruce, but alas paper does not take issue with you putting holes in it.....

 

[Panielsen]

In my .458 Win Mag, I loaded 470gr. CEB Raptors on top of 71 grs. of Varget. Varget is also one of the Extreme line from Hodgdon so it is temp. stabilized as well. The bullets performed very well on buff passing through completely with peddles breaking off and creating wound channels once in the chest cavity wrecking lungs, liver, and heart. Some or most of the peddles exited the buff on the far side. Accuracy was very close point of impact to my 500grn. Hornady solids loaded on top of 72 grs of Varget. In my hunt report there is a photo of the target showing two solids sharing the same hole and the Raptor 1.5" away all in the bulls eye. I am a fan now of the bullet, and the load I developed was extremely potent and accurate on each of my animals. I think all the bullets you are looking at are of good quality as were the ones mentioned in this thread. Good luck and enjoy that Lott!

 

[zephyr]

Don't know if this will work but here is some .458 Lott data on CEB and North Fork bullets from Micheal McCorry and B&M rifles
http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/About-Us.html

 

[zephyr]

Had great success with CEB's on Cape Buff in Zim out of my 400 H&H and Water Buff in OZ out of my 458 Lott.

 

[Warbird782]

I was spoiled with getting the Lott when I did. Another member of this forum allowed me the chance to shoot many DG rifles from 375 H&H to the 404 and 416's, 458's and 505 Gibbs. I had the chance to shoot this Kimber before I bought it. I was able to ring steel at 100 yards with the open sights. This rifle just did not fit him right so he offered to sell it to me. HELL YES! Thank you to all that contributed to bullet and load data. I think that I will be trying a sample pack of "industrial check weights" from NF to start.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I was spoiled with getting the Lott when I did. Another member of this forum allowed me the chance to shoot many DG rifles from 375 H&H to the 404 and 416's, 458's and 505 Gibbs. I had the chance to shoot this Kimber before I bought it. I was able to ring steel at 100 yards with the open sights. This rifle just did not fit him right so he offered to sell it to me. HELL YES! Thank you to all that contributed to bullet and load data. I think that I will be trying a sample pack of "industrial check weights" from NF to start.

I don't think you can go wrong with the North Forks. Conventional old school thought was to use 500gr bullets in the .458's to improve sectional density, there is certainly wisdom in that. But that was before high weight retaining bullets like the NF's and A-Frames were available. I'd take a 450gr NF retaining 90-95% of it's weight over a conventional 500gr bullet giving up 40-50% of it's weight without any hesitation.