458 Winchester Magnum

[Deleted member 46122]

Good Evening from Alaska
I have a Model 70 “Super Express” in 458 Winchester Magnum. It’s a great rifle/ caliber and just plain fun to shoot.
The problem is that according to the serial number, it was manufactured in 1951.
I realize that it could have been re-barreled.
Any thoughts? Are serial numbers a reliable means of determining manufacturer date?

 

[Max Simmons]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it started life as a .375.

 

[Deleted member 46122]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it started life as a .375.

Probably right. Good thought

 

[CoElkHunter]

Good Evening from Alaska
I have a Model 70 “Super Express” in 458 Winchester Magnum. It’s a great rifle/ caliber and just plain fun to shoot.
The problem is that according to the serial number, it was manufactured in 1951.
I realize that it could have been re-barreled.
Any thoughts? Are serial numbers a reliable means of determining manufacturer date?

I wouldn’t really care! You have a great pre ‘64 Winchester action with a newer barrel. I don’t see any downside as far as hunting/shooting with it goes?

 

[Deleted member 46122]

I wouldn’t really care! You have a great pre ‘64 Winchester action with a newer barrel. I don’t see any downside as far as hunting/shooting with it goes?

I agree. I was just curious. It’s a great rifle.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Does the barrel say Winchester on it or just 458

 

[Deleted member 46122]

Does the barrel say Winchester on it or just 458

Yes it’s a Winchester Barrel. It’s even stamped “Super Express” on the opposite side from the trade mark.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’d say it’s original then. I’d have a hard time believing a smith would stamp all that on the barrel or find a Winchester barrel.

P.S. a pre 64 458 is a dream of mine!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I’d say it’s original then. I’d have a hard time believing a smith would stamp all that on the barrel or find a Winchester barrel.

P.S. a pre 64 458 is a dream of mine!

The 458 Win Mag came out in 1956. If the rifle was manufactured in 1951, then I agree with @Max Simmons and say it started out as something other than the 458.

 

[TTundra]

Are you sure it's a 51 date? I thought the "super Express' models were early 90s and on. I guess a super express barrel could have been fitted to your action. Any model 70 buffs verify that?

 

[Max Simmons]

My barber’s father and brother both worked their entire careers at Winchester in New Haven. The father had long since passed away, but I did have a couple of long conversations with the brother about his time there (which ran up to the mid ‘80s). More than once he talked of their record keeping that was so strict and meticulous that all hell would break loose if someone in records found a discrepancy, including sometimes shutdowns on the production floor until it was resolved. I’d likely believe the serial number.

Question: Is there a serial number hand-etched on the underside of the bolt? If so, does it match the number on the action?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The 458 Win Mag came out in 1956. If the rifle was manufactured in 1951, then I agree with @Max Simmons and say it started out as something other than the 458.

You got me. Also the the pre 64s were a super grade weren’t they? I have seen a Remington Barrel on a Winchester model 70 before, so I’d believe anything.

 

[Earle]

Best to re-check the numbers. I just spent a couple weeks trying to date the same model/calibre rifle. Number on the rifle dated it as 1954, but the 458 wasn't around in 1954. Turns out Winchester played with the serial numbers. They jump from year to year. Plus they started re-using the same numbers prefaced with a "c" around 1969. Turned out my rifle that was made in 1954, was actually built in 1995. This came strait from Winchester.

 

[fourfive8]

If the barrel is marked Win... 458... with factory type stamping and the action serial # indicates 1951 manufacture, then the simplest explanation is likely correct. Rifle made in 1951 and a later Win (factory) 458 WM barrel put on. And yes, that hand applied serial # on underside of bolt should match the action serial #, even though it looks "hoakie", that is the way they were applied at the factory... like a quick and dirty job with a cheap, vibrating pencil engraver.

 

[TTundra]

This one has me thinking.

You said "super express"...did you mean super grade? I looked back and the super Express was a 1985 release in the xtr and 1990 release thereafter in the 458.

Does the floor plate say "super express"? If so, that would lead me to believe it is a 1990s+ model 70. I dont think someone would screw on a 458 barrel to a pre 64 and swap the newer floor plate at the wood may need fitting. Possible, yes, just not probable. Unless they used the super express as a donor rifle for the action...

Of course, it can just be a pre 64 action that was built up to he someone's dream gun as well. Also probable.

 

[Earle]

Just do what I did. E-mail Winchester. They got back pretty quick. Don't be surprised to find the rifle is a 90s model.

 

[fourfive8]

The chances of factory error with the serial number is EXTREMELY low- near zero really. RE-CHECK the number on the receiver. If it is a 1951 number then that is what it is and EVERYTHING else attached to it could be something else. Not a complex issue.

 

[Deleted member 46122]

My barber’s father and brother both worked their entire careers at Winchester in New Haven. The father had long since passed away, but I did have a couple of long conversations with the brother about his time there (which ran up to the mid ‘80s). More than once he talked of their record keeping that was so strict and meticulous that all hell would break loose if someone in records found a discrepancy, including sometimes shutdowns on the production floor until it was resolved. I’d likely believe the serial number.

Question: Is there a serial number hand-etched on the underside of the bolt? If so, does it match the number on the action?

This entire conversation is why I proposed the question here. Yes the number on the bolt matches the serial number.
Yes it says super express.
I initially thought that it was a ‘90s production rifle but just for fun ran the numbers last night.
My plan is to contact Winchester tomorrow for clarification.
It’s just a curiosity thing at this point.
I will keep everyone updated

 

[Deleted member 46122]

The chances of factory error with the serial number is EXTREMELY low- near zero really. RE-CHECK the number on the receiver. If it is a 1951 number then that is what it is and EVERYTHING else attached to it could be something else. Not a complex issue.

Agreed. Just curious. Thanks for the reply

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Is the receiver ring knurled?