458 WM to 458 Lott Re-Chambering

[HookMeUpII]

I am due to take possession of a Ruger No. 1 in 458WM. I am getting a very good deal on the rifle and it has me considering using some of those savings to have it re-chambered.

Has anyone had a shop do the 458WM to 458 Lott re-chamber?
What was involved?
What was your cost?

I may or may not go this route but I am certainly interested.

And yes, I know the recoil will be very bad.

 

[Flewis]

I think the no1 is really long throated so by loading the 458 long you will be right there anyway. You don’t have to worry about fitting in a magazine. Spent the money on a better scope.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I think the no1 is really long throated so by loading the 458 long you will be right there anyway. You don’t have to worry about fitting in a magazine. Spent the money on a better scope.

Spoke to a shop yesterday who could do it. $250+shipping which is pretty cheap.

He asked me I had ever shot 458 before. I said no. His response: "Try the Win first, then get back to me."

I guess maybe I'll try that first. Seems like 458WM is rough in terms of recoil 458 Lott is even worse.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Spoke to a shop yesterday who could do it. $250+shipping which is pretty cheap.

He asked me I had ever shot 458 before. I said no. His response: "Try the Win first, then get back to me."

I guess maybe I'll try that first. Seems like 458WM is rough in terms of recoil 458 Lott is even worse.

In a Ruger No1, I would say so. It’s probably under 9lbs. My 416 at 9 lbs is a handful compared to it with a scope. Weight and fit make a big difference.

 

[wildwilderness]

If you Reload it’s not worth it- As mentioned you can seat the Bullet out closer to the lands and accomplish the same loading or more than a factory Lott. Cheaper to move the throat than rechamber anyway.

Refer to this article-

The .458 Winchester Magnum vs The .458 Lott – P4

In 2008, I published my first edition of a reloading journal on the .458 Winchester Magnum. It was largely based on results from handloads in my CZ 550 and a few hunting experiences I’d had w…

bigborefan.wordpress.com

Now you can do the same thing if you rechamber to the Lott …. But a hot load on a Lott seems a bit much and most likely unnecessary to kill whatever you are shooting! (Plus you are more likely to practice more with less recoil)

The biggest reason to keep it a Win is the availability of components and factory ammo! I have found the cheaper and easier it is to feed a rifle the more you shoot it! Once again the more practice the better

 

[Nhoro]

As suggested above, win mag chamber is long throated and so you can load bullets long and get the same capacity in the case as a conventional lott. The monolithic bullets with gas checks/ driving bands are well suited as you can select the crimping groove to seat your bullet out.

The process to ream to Lott is very simple and could be done at home so a gunsmith should be reasonable. Mines was done free as a.bonus to another job.It simply extends the chamber a little. I am on my phone so don't have the drawings to hand to give you accurate dimensions. @Badboymelvin on this forum loads win mag long and easily gets the same velocity as lott. I reamed my CZ 550 in win mag out to a lott but use win mag ammo happily. The lott just allowed me to use a bigger variety of powder/bullets and in zim that is a big bonus. I also like and would use again the 450 gr bullets loaded to standard length in win mag as well as Hornady DGS and DGX in win mag. (Hornady ammo has good velocity)
Lastly, I use handholds in my lott that are achieving 2180 to 2200 fps with a 515 gr bullet. I can't feel a difference between those and win mag ammo or 450 gr bullets in win mag. There is a lot of drama around on the Internet and people who have never fired nor chronographed a win mag that are experts. Try the win mag as is. Lott is easy to ream and offers you more leeway with powders and bullets and a little more velocity. Simple as that.

 

[Flewis]

Spoke to a shop yesterday who could do it. $250+shipping which is pretty cheap.

He asked me I had ever shot 458 before. I said no. His response: "Try the Win first, then get back to me."

I guess maybe I'll try that first. Seems like 458WM is rough in terms of recoil 458 Lott is even worse.

I have both and there is a difference but not a big difference. The recoil speed in the Lott is faster though.

 

[Badboymelvin]

As suggested above, win mag chamber is long throated and so you can load bullets long and get the same capacity in the case as a conventional lott. The monolithic bullets with gas checks/ driving bands are well suited as you can select the crimping groove to seat your bullet out.

The process to ream to Lott is very simple and could be done at home so a gunsmith should be reasonable. Mines was done free as a.bonus to another job.It simply extends the chamber a little. I am on my phone so don't have the drawings to hand to give you accurate dimensions. @Badboymelvin on this forum loads win mag long and easily gets the same velocity as lott. I reamed my CZ 550 in win mag out to a lott but use win mag ammo happily. The lott just allowed me to use a bigger variety of powder/bullets and in zim that is a big bonus. I also like and would use again the 450 gr bullets loaded to standard length in win mag as well as Hornady DGS and DGX in win mag. (Hornady ammo has good velocity)
Lastly, I use handholds in my lott that are achieving 2180 to 2200 fps with a 515 gr bullet. I can't feel a difference between those and win mag ammo or 450 gr bullets in win mag. There is a lot of drama around on the Internet and people who have never fired nor chronographed a win mag that are experts. Try the win mag as is. Lott is easy to ream and offers you more leeway with powders and bullets and a little more velocity. Simple as that.

Thanks for the mention Nhoro!
Yep, l would (and have) load long, use a premium bullet, and not fear anything...

Russ

 

[HookMeUpII]

Thank you everyone for the input. Seems like the summary here is stick with the 458WM to start. I've read also, since making this post, that reaming out the chamber to fit the Lott can actually lead to accuracy issues when it's loaded with 458WM.

There's somethings I don't understand like the fascination with getting 500gr loads at 2150fps. I can only ever see myself using this rifle for cape buffalo. It seems like 400-450gr turns the 458WM into one serious round.

 

[WAB]

I converted my M70. I’m not sure it was worth it. I am getting 2,300 fps with Federal’s 500 gr TBBC load and it hits buffalo like the hammer of Thor. But I’m betting you get 2,150+ with long loaded .458 WM. Would you really see a difference?

 

[HookMeUpII]

I converted my M70. I’m not sure it was worth it. I am getting 2,300 fps with Federal’s 500 gr TBBC load and it hits buffalo like the hammer of Thor. But I’m betting you get 2,150+ with long loaded .458 WM. Would you really see a difference?

I agree. It seems like even if you dial down to 450-480gr projectiles, which is like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic, you can get ridiculous velocity with the new powders.

For example, I have Barnes 450gr TTSX FB coming. 2240fps at the muzzle. May be a little slower from my No 1 if they are spec'd at a 26" barrel.

Other than cost? Doesn't make any sense I suppose.

Maybe if I was ever going to hunt an elephant?

 

[Inline6]

IMHO, try it at 458WM. Honestly if you like it that much you will probably want it in a repeater. Resale on a rechambered rifle will not be as high. And if you did want to take it hunting it's going to be marked 458WM, you will have potential problems with trying to get 458Lott ammo in. At least from what I have read.

 

[WAB]

I agree. It seems like even if you dial down to 450-480gr projectiles, which is like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic, you can get ridiculous velocity with the new powders.

For example, I have Barnes 450gr TTSX FB coming. 2240fps at the muzzle. May be a little slower from my No 1 if they are spec'd at a 26" barrel.

Other than cost? Doesn't make any sense I suppose.

Maybe if I was ever going to hunt an elephant?

I would stick with the 500 gr bullets at lower velocity if this is primarily a buffalo rifle.

 

[WAB]

IMHO, try it at 458WM. Honestly if you like it that much you will probably want it in a repeater. Resale on a rechambered rifle will not be as high. And if you did want to take it hunting it's going to be marked 458WM, you will have potential problems with trying to get 458Lott ammo in. At least from what I have read.

My M70 was stamped Lott on the barrel. It is no issue taking .458 Lott ammo into Africa as long as the supplemental stamp is applied. I have done so at least half a dozen times with that rifle.

 

[HookMeUpII]

M70 was stamped Lott on the barrel. It is no issue taking .458 Lott ammo into Africa as long as the supplemental stamp is applied. I have done so at least half a dozen times with that rifle.

I had actually wondered this. If I did ever re-chamber, I would probably have it custom stamped/engraved by the shop as well.

 

[Nhoro]

There's somethings I don't understand like the fascination with getting 500gr loads at 2150fps. I can only ever see myself using this rifle for cape buffalo. It seems like 400-450gr turns the 458WM into one serious round.

It is all historical, that was the 450 and 470 NE specifications. Add that to bad win mag ammo in the days and it has become an obsession for some.

I guess you have to aim for something. I can say that 45-70 velocities lack penetration on elephant and maybe on buffalo from certain angles. So you do need to keep an eye on velocity.

 

[HookMeUpII]

It is all historical, that was the 450 and 470 NE specifications. Add that to bad win mag ammo in the days and it has become an obsession for some.

I guess you have to aim for something. I can say that 45-70 velocities lack penetration on elephant and maybe on buffalo from certain angles. So you do need to keep an eye on velocity.

I can, for sure, see where it comes from. I did a lot of reading on the 458 and exactly to your point: The old stories seem to be from QC issues and just old powder technology. I imagine elephant hunting in 1960 looked a lot different than it does today.

With the 45-70, long before my first African safari, I remember reading online posts titled "45-70 is not an elephant round" or "45-70 is not suitable for dangerous game." It really does not seem like it is.

I use the 375HH as the standard.

375HH - 300gr @ 2500 fps or so
458WM - 450gr @ 2200 fps or so
45-70 - 300gr @ 1900 fps or so

That's all Barnes data. The 45-70 definitely falls short.

The data on the 458WM in 400gr is almost 2500 fps. Comparing the 375HH to the 458WM?

375HH - 300 gr @ 2500 fps
vs
458WM - 400 gr @ 2450 fps

How can anyone turn their nose up or doubt a 400gr bullet going almost 2500 fps? I'm not sure to be honest.

 

[Inline6]

I can, for sure, see where it comes from. I did a lot of reading on the 458 and exactly to your point: The old stories seem to be from QC issues and just old powder technology. I imagine elephant hunting in 1960 looked a lot different than it does today.

With the 45-70, long before my first African safari, I remember reading online posts titled "45-70 is not an elephant round" or "45-70 is not suitable for dangerous game." It really does not seem like it is.

I use the 375HH as the standard.

375HH - 300gr @ 2500 fps or so
458WM - 450gr @ 2200 fps or so
45-70 - 300gr @ 1900 fps or so

That's all Barnes data. The 45-70 definitely falls short.

The data on the 458WM in 400gr is almost 2500 fps. Comparing the 375HH to the 458WM?

375HH - 300 gr @ 2500 fps
vs
458WM - 400 gr @ 2450 fps

How can anyone turn their nose up or doubt a 400gr bullet going almost 2500 fps? I'm not sure to be honest.

The easy answer to your question is the lack of SD of that bullet. Rule of thumb you want a SD of .3 or greater.

 

[Nhoro]

The 450 gr and 500 gr bullets are better I think. 400 gr is a little light on elephant and buffalo. Probably good on Eland and plainsgame but I think that there are better calibres for that. I think that higher velocity causes a more vigorous kick of recoil. I find my current 515 gr load at 2200 fps has the same recoil as 480 gr at 2250 fps and 450 gr at around 2300 fps. I would try 450,480 and 500 gr and check your velocity is comfortably around 2100 + fps

 

[HookMeUpII]

The easy answer to your question is the lack of SD of that bullet. Rule of thumb you want a SD of .3 or greater.

That explains why Barnes only loads in the 450 and 500gr.

500gr is .34
450gr is .30

I heard 480 is the sweet spot for 458WM.