465 Nitro Express vs 465 H&H

[cwhuntsalot]

I make cartridge display boards and I'm always looking for more different cartridges to add. I have a line on some 465 NE brass. I can find info on the 500/465 NE, but not the 465 NE. There is info out there about the 465 H&H. I've seen images of both and they are nowhere near the same. I've seen the brass and it is HS 465 NE. Is the 465 NE AKA 465 H&H? I don't want to put the round in the wrong place on the boards and make me look like a doofus.

Thanks for your help
Curtis

 

[grand veneur]

I have a list here of the Gun Digest from 1960. A cartridge 465 H&H Nitro Express is listed but not a cartridge 500/465 Nitro Express. In the text afterwards it is alternately referred to a cartridge 500-465 Nitro Express or a cartridge 465 Holland, but the data for both cartridges match. That's why I have the feeling that it's the same cartridge about we are talking here. Unfortunately there are no pictures. I don't know a cartridge 465 Nitro Express that would be different from the cartridge 500/465 Nitro Express, but no guarantee, I am not an expert. The cartridge 465 H&H Magnum came onto the market in 2003.

 

[cwhuntsalot]

Thank you for your research. Like I said I have images of the 465 H&H and the 500/465 NE and they are most definitely not the same. I can find no image or info on a 465 NE. When I receive the brass I'll use my digital caliper and compare specs with the 465 H&H image I have so I'll know whether to put them on the display board as an H&H or the headstamped NE.
When a cartridge is named H&H Nitro Express or AKA it sure confuses things.
It seems that Nitro Express moniker has been thrown about quite freely.

 

[cwhuntsalot]

I just discovered another photo of the 465 NE brass. It is definitely not 465 H&H. I looks as if it may be the same as the 500/465, but we'll let the caliper determine that

 

[BeeMaa]

I know the 500/465NE is a flanged cartridge based on the 500NE necked down to .465 (more or less) diameter following the British ban on .458 cartridges. This was typically used in single shot and double rifles and was invented in 1907.

The 465H&H is belted magnum cartridge based on the 375H&H upsized to accept .465 (more or less) bullets. This was typically used in bolt action rifles and is much more modern being created by H&H in 2003.

I'm not sure about the 465NE, but it looks like you may have found an answer just as I started to post this. I suspect the 465NE is a shorter way of saying 500/465NE unless the case is a different length, which is entirely possible. They could have made it with a 3" case instead of the 3-1/4" the same way they did with the 450/400NE 3" (aka 400 Jeffery Nitro Express) that was developed from the 450/400NE 3-1/4" because of extraction problems with the latter.

 

[grand veneur]

It's quite possible that there were two cartridges at some point, something like that was not unusual back then. However, deviations in size for the same cartridges was also not uncommon at this times.

By the way, the cartridge 465 H&H Magnum is more of a cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum that was upsized to caliber .468 as a upsized cartridge 375 H&H Magnum, but whatever.

 

[zephyr]

Cartridges of the World only shows the 500/465

 

[grand veneur]

I also believe that there never was such a cartridge and that the cartridge that we call 500/465 Nitro Express had various names. Initially it was called 465 India because of the cartridge ban of 1907 that initiated the birth of all these cartridges. The variations in the size of some cartridges, combined with the different names for these cartridge, can certainly cause confusion.

 

[BeeMaa]

By the way, the cartridge 465 H&H Magnum is more of a cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum that was upsized to caliber .468 as a upsized cartridge 375 H&H Magnum, but whatever.

True, the 465H&H is based on the 460WBY...which is based on the 378WBY...which is based on the 375H&H.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I think the 378 wby and subsequently the 416 and 460 wby are all based on the 416 Rigby

 

[Ruraldoc]

The 378 Weatherby was based on a 416 Rigby with a belt and the double radius weatherby shoulder. The 460 and 416 Weatherby are based on the 378.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

And the 465 H&H is based directly on the 378 wby IIRC

 

[Ruraldoc]

The 375 Weatherby was based on a 375 H&H with the case taper removed and the double radius shoulder added.

Like the 300 Weatherby and the 300 H&H.

 

[BeeMaa]

The 378 Weatherby was based on a 416 Rigby with a belt and the double radius weatherby shoulder. The 460 and 416 Weatherby are based on the 378.

378WBY was inspired by the rimless 416RIGBY using a similar base diameter but used the 375H&H belted case as a method of headspacing. Officially it has no parent case.

 

[Jefferry404]

378WBY was inspired by the rimless 416RIGBY using a similar base diameter but used the 375H&H belted case as a method of headspacing. Officially it has no parent case.

I make cartridge display boards and I'm always looking for more different cartridges to add. I have a line on some 465 NE brass. I can find info on the 500/465 NE, but not the 465 NE. There is info out there about the 465 H&H. I've seen images of both and they are nowhere near the same. I've seen the brass and it is HS 465 NE. Is the 465 NE AKA 465 H&H? I don't want to put the round in the wrong place on the boards and make me look like a doofus.

Thanks for your help
Curtis

From Wesley Richards website:
“
The New .500/.465 NE

The .500/.450 NE was very popular for Holland’s but the banning of the .450 caliber rifles forced the firm to develop something new. Using the same parent case and bullet weight as the .500/.450 NE, but loaded with a .467” diameter bullet, the new cartridge also had velocities of 2,150 but was impossible to fire in the older rifles. In Holland’s marketing this cartridge was called the .465 India with obvious references to the U.K.’s ban. This is one of the great cartridges used during the golden era of safari and remains a very viable cartridge today for big game hunting, being Holland & Holland’s most popular double rifle chambering. Today the cartridge is simply known as the .500/.465 NE and noted in a way common among British makers showing the parent case first and the bullet diameter second.
“

 

[Chaplin]

The .465 was a somewhat accepted big bore double rifle caliber in its day and it is still a viable option for a good double rifle, but not particularly popular..If I was to find one at a good price I would jump on it and just use it..

 

[boziebean]

The .465 H&H Magnum is a belted magnum cartridge developed by H&H Technical Director Russell Wilkin in 2003. It is similar, in some ways, to the .460 Weatherby cartridge. The .500/.465 Nitro Express (or sometimes just called the .476 Nitro Express) cartridge is a rimmed Express cartridge introduced by H&H in 1907.

 

[Luvthunt]

I believe,amongst many, that Pondoro Taylor and Sanchez-Arino were both users of the 465 NE in a Holland Royal DR for ele.

 

[zephyr]

Sanchez-Arino's book Great African Calibers chronicles his time behind a 500-465 ,..
For those looking for a good read and addition to their library this is a good one

 

[grand veneur]

The .465 H&H Magnum is a belted magnum cartridge developed by H&H Technical Director Russell Wilkin in 2003. It is similar, in some ways, to the .460 Weatherby cartridge. The .500/.465 Nitro Express (or sometimes just called the .476 Nitro Express) cartridge is a rimmed Express cartridge introduced by H&H in 1907.

As far as I know, the cartridge 476 Nitro Express was introduced by Westley Richards 1907 and not by Holland & Holland. It is a different cartridge.