470 NE vs. 500 NE for Hippo

[RootballExpress]

Hello all,

I am new to the forums here and am in the process of planning my first DG hunt in Africa.

*****The question I have is, as far as ammo availability, and overall power & performance, which double rifle would I benefit the most from when hunting a bull hippo and Cape buffalo? *******

Recoil isn’t a factor here and neither is weight of the rifle. I am going with Sabatti EDL big 5, but unsure of which caliber will be worth while.

 

[Red Leg]

Unless you are guaranteed that your hunt for a hippo will be on dry land, then a double is a pretty bad choice. Most places, hippo hunting is a precision shot placement challenge (think scoped, highly accurate bolt action) rather than a relative power question between double rifles. If you are certain you are hunting one on dry land, then either caliber will handle the job.

With respect to cape buffalo, unless a first time DG hunter has vast double gun and open sight experience, I never recommend a double for their first one. Your job is to place the first shot as precisely as you and the fellow who engineered the rifle can do so. That is rarely done best with a double. Moreover, on today's more limited time frame hunts, you may only have one opportunity - in thick cover, or through a tiny window, or at eighty yards, or perhaps at a bit of the dark shoulder of an old dagga boy standing among three of his dark buddies in all of the above. A good shot with a scoped .375 or .416 would go home with his bull. In the same situation a double might be the start of a very long day with no guaranteed happy endings for anyone involved.

 

[RootballExpress]

Thank you for this valuable information. I had considered obtaining a CZ 550 American Safari Magnum in 416 rigby and placing a Leupold 1-6x24 on it so that I would have more precision and flexibility given only 5 days to hunt and I may only have 1 solid chance to get my animal. And that’s just the thing, I do not know whether the hippo will be on land or in the water, so that is a 50/50 chance.

I’m really drawn to the idea of a double, but I would never forgive myself if I missed an opportunity and only injured or never even got a shot off at my target.

 

[Jeffrey]

Get the 416. And get that exact scope you mentioned, make sure to get the one with the Firedot.

Doubles are cool . Get one and practice with it. And bring it over on a future hunt. For your first DG foray, I’d recomend that exact scope on a 375, or a 416 if you can shoot it accurately.

 

[Royal27]

What @Red Leg said.

I never saw the horns on the buffalo in my avatar before my first shot. I shot at a gray spot in the bush, which was the buffalo's shoulder. It was on day eight of a 12 day hunt in the Zambezi Valley. I took a hippo in the water on day ten, both with a scoped .375 H&H.

Leave the double for later, especially since you dont have experience with one. It's really not much different than getting a teenager a high powered sports car when they get their license. Everything may work out OK, but....

Where are you hunting at? Five days is a pretty short amount of time for those two animals, unless you're hunting a relatively small SA farm that also has hippo in a dam nearby....

Keep doing more research and make sure you're getting what you really want from the hunt.

 

[AZDAVE]

You have been given great advice, I am a double guy and shoot doubles ALLOOTT.

You should get your double and practice until it is an reflex action and then take it on your 2nd dangerous game safari!

Get the 416 and scope and also practice allot and take it on your first DG safari!

With a double and iron sight or a red dot there are shots that you won't be able to take shots that with a scoped bolt gun you can. So with the double you must first know your and the rifles limitations, second you must be disciplined enough to pass on a shot, knowing that you might not go home with your animal. Doubles are very rewarding to hunt with and my buffalo and hippo hunts with my double are among my most treasured hunting memories. I passed on 15 bulls that would have been easy shots with a 416 before I pulled the trigger on my double. When hunting with a double you must also talk to you PH before hand so that he and you have a realistic expatiation and understanding of what your hunt will entail.

 

[IvW]

Forget about a Sabatti double in either 470 or 500 NE.

Get a proper CRF in 375 H&H or bigger caliber with a good quality scope on QD mounts....

 

[Spooksar]

I used my double on my first dangerous game hunt, it didn’t go as well as I thought it would. The one thing I didn’t practice came back to bite me. That said if you want to go with a double practice a lot. What I do nowadays I have a side by side shotgun that is the same as my rifle, I shoot it lots to get the feel, then goes and practice with the rifle for 2 months before you go.

 

[superdutch]

Spooksar, what was the one thing you should have practiced bit did not?

I used my double on my first dangerous game hunt, it didn’t go as well as I thought it would. The one thing I didn’t practice came back to bite me. That said if you want to go with a double practice a lot. What I do nowadays I have a side by side shotgun that is the same as my rifle, I shoot it lots to get the feel, then goes and practice with the rifle for 2 months before you go.

 

[CAustin]

Sir I have three of the big five and a hippo......none of which was taken with my double. The hippo was in the water. About to hunt for number four of the big five and it will not be with my double. That being said a 416 or 375 will do all the work you want to take on. I plan to take another elephant at some point and that will be with the double I purchased a couple of Years ago. Frankly I have not practiced enough with the double to be sure that I can hit the right spot yet so it would be unwise of me to try on a DG hunt. Practice with the rifle you choose will be CRITICAL! Prior to hunting my elephant with a 416 I shot up over $500 worth of ammunition just to get tuned up! I had previously taken a lioness and Cape buffalo with the same rifle so I was pretty good with it. I dare say that the necessary preparation to hunt with a double would have cost $1000 or more.....which is why I have taken up reloading!
You have received some excellent advice from several good folks in this post and I can find no flaw in what any have said.
Whatever you choose, bolt action or double, practice,practice,practice and practice some more. When you can jog in place for about three minutes and then pick up your rifle and hit a paper plate at 100 yards with the bolt gun or 50 yards with the double you should be ready. A week before your safari go to the range and shoot up a box of ammo to remind yourself that you are ready and that you can hit where you aim. Shot placement will always factor in more importantly than what kind of rifle you shoot!

 

[Spooksar]

Spooksar, what was the one thing you should have practiced bit did not?

A little background when I bought my 470 components where hard to find in Canada, I managed to get 125 Barnes XLC bulletts. I developed a load that shot 1.5 inches at 50 yards. so I made up 4 dummy rounds that I practiced reloading the gun with , while practicing I did not pull the trigger as I didn't want to dry fire it. I became really good at reloading the rifle. When I shot my Buffalo I pulled the front trigger on my second trigger pull nothing happened, I reloaded and shot again and again the second trigger pull nothing happened. I thought my rifle broke, when the Buffalo was down and dead I emptied it and pulled one trigger then the other both triggers work. On the way back to camp I was racking my brain for what went wrong.I was Half asleep when my mind stood up and said YOU NEVER MOVED YOUR TRIGGER FINGER OFF THE FRONT TRIGGER. That is why I bought a double barrelled shot gun with 2 triggers to practice. Today I can find components for my 470 every where I shop for guns. So like I said get your fundamentals down and practice practice practice. I have since shot another buffalo a Giraffe and a Elephant with my double with zero problems, but I practice a lot.

 

[swoobie]

Interesting comments here - I bought a double in 470 for my first trip to Africa, practiced quite a bit (100+ rounds - 20 reduced power loads from Safari Arms and 80+ rounds of Federal Swift A-Frames). My second rifle was a scoped 375. I took both on the truck each day in case we found a trophy that couldn't be stalked, but I asked my PH to try to get up close and he seemed to really appreciate that I had brought a double. Took three nice trophies of dangerous game with the double, and I can't tell you how much that rifle now means to me. When I think back on the trip and the hunting, the gun is a highlight.

From my perspective, if you'll dedicate the time to practice then you should take a double. Where else are you going to use it?

 

[One Day...]

Almost everything has been said, but the original question has, so far, not been answered...

Here it is:

There is no discernible difference in the field between the .470 NE and .500 NE. Sure, technically the .500 hits a tad harder, on both ends, but not enough that anyone will see a difference under actual hunting conditions. Buying a .470 or .500 is more, in my opinion, an issue of likes/dislikes, ammo availability (.470 is more common), and buying opportunity (the right .500 at the right price is the right choice).

Regarding the hunt:

Whether you first hunt dangerous game (DG) with a double, or a turn bolt action, or a single shot, or a straight pull, etc. the key word has already been stated: PRACTICE. I would add: practice as you will hunt. Cycle all the rounds from a fully loaded magazine; fire both barrels of a double; reload while keeping your eyes on the target; etc.
And of course, test & debug thoroughly your DG rifle. There is no such thing as an Africa-ready DG rifle out of the box - regardless of the name on the barrel - if only in as much as the best rifle is useless to you until its particularities have become second nature to you.

Double or bolt action? In view of the above, I would have a more nuanced perspective than others. My take would be that it is about as dangerous to go DG hunting with a bolt action you have not practiced with, as it is with a double you have not practiced with. Both are unwise. Where I see the most notable difference - assuming in either case that the proper proficiency has been achieved through appropriate practice - is indeed, as indicated by Red Leg, in the fact that a scoped .375 or .416 will objectively give you more opportunities. One would say that they will not necessarily make the hunt easier, but they will objectively make taking the shot a lot easier, and from a longer distance. This certainly improves your chances, but this is also exactly the reason why I do not want a scoped .375 or .416 on herbivore DG, even though I own both, as well as a .458, and I will choose to hunt buff, hippo, elephant closer and harder with an open sights double. Cats are different and I reckon a scoped .416 Rigby as the quintessential lion rifle. We each pursue our own dreams...

This being said, I agree again with Red Leg: hippo with a double has to be a terrestrial hunt. My additional thought would be that hippo on terra firma is often indeed a hard hunt if in dense bush, and it can be quite an exciting one at that; while shooting a hippo in the water is often just that: shooting. So, I would vote for hippo with a double, assuming that it is a de facto hunt outside of the water. Again, to each their own...
(Note to Safari first-timers: it has been lastingly acknowledged that standing between an annoyed hippo and water is one of the most effective way to commit suicide in Africa. Hence the rationale for the double...)

Sabatti double. I stand with a comfortable majority thinking and saying that one generally gets what one is paying for. Especially in a double, I would add. There are a number of technical posts on the Sabatti on this blog, with technical details and pictures. I would highly recommend you explore them... Since I referred Red Leg already twice in this post, I might as well loosely quote him on this: "This is what makes the difference between rifles that last 100 rounds and rifles that last 100 years." 'nough said.

 

[Major Khan]

Welcome to African Hunting Forums , Mr. Express . Since you did say that recoil is not a concern of yours , and that you would like to use a double barrel rifle , l would recommend the .500 Nitro Express ( using the 570 grain bullet ) . Consider the writing of a gentleman named Robin Hurt , a retired White Hunter in Africa and a regular writer of " Man Magnum" magazine ( of which l am a regular reader ) . Mr. Hurt has always used 2 double barreled rifles built by William Evans for the entirety of his career - 1 is a .470 Nitro Express , which he acquired in 1968 as a gift. The other is a .500 Nitro Express ( 3 inch chambers ) which he acquired in 1973 , as a gift . Ergo , he has actually used both the calibres which you are trying to choose from . His view is that ( while the .470 Nitro Express is perfectly adequate ) , the effects of the 570 grain bullet of a .500 Nitro Express on a hippopotamus or elephant or cape buffalo , is MUCH more apparent than the .470 Nitro Express .
If you would like , l could send you an article written by Mr. Hurt named " Double Rifle Adventures " where he spends quite a bit of time discussing the and comparing both his .470 Nitro Express and his .500 Nitro Express.
The ideal double barreled rifle for hunting dangerous game should have barrels no longer than 24 inches , double triggers , automatic ejectors and no automatic safety . It should also be a side by side pattern rifle .

Now that l have answered your question , please allow me to make a personal comment. Much like yourself , l love double barreled rifles ( and shot guns ) . I have used a double barreled weapon for the entirety of my 10 year career as a professional shikaree ( hunter ) .
However , for someone who is going on a 1st time hunt , a double barreled rifle is not the optimal tool for the task . What you need is a good bolt rifle , like a .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre Winchester Model 70 Safari Express ( or better yet .. a pre 64 Winchester Model 70 ) with telescopic sights ( Weaver K series was an extremely good choice during my career , but these days , far better options exist on the market ) .
Use a premium expanding bullet , like a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw soft point in 300 grain weight.
I have seen the skeleton of a hippopotamus at a museum . The brain appears to be rather small , but unlike an elephant's brain , it is not located too far back in the head .
After your 1st dangerous game hunt with a quality bolt rifle , and you " learn the ropes " , then you may " graduate " to a double barreled rifle for your next dangerous game hunt , armed with more experience .

 

[BeeMaa]

If you are set on getting a new double rifle, take a look at Heym and Krieghoff.
These are a proper "working man's" double rifle at a reasonable price.

Buy once, cry once.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hello all,

I am new to the forums here and am in the process of planning my first DG hunt in Africa.

*****The question I have is, as far as ammo availability, and overall power & performance, which double rifle would I benefit the most from when hunting a bull hippo and Cape buffalo? *******

Recoil isn’t a factor here and neither is weight of the rifle. I am going with Sabatti EDL big 5, but unsure of which caliber will be worth while.

Easy answer if ammo availability is a concern. The .470NE is very popular all over Africa. There is not much difference in the two calibers. I was in your shoes and asked many PH’s and gun reps and all said to get a .470.

 

[cal pappas]

The last two hippo I shot were taken with a vintage .600 nitro. Bigger is better!
Cal

 

[grand veneur]

The last two hippo I shot were taken with a vintage .600 nitro. Bigger is better!
Cal

At last it depends on where you shoot the hippo , in the water or on land.

On land you can , if you like , shoot with a DR caliber 600NE , but in the water something should be used with which one can do an accurate brain shot. I see in this case a clear advantage with an scoped bolt action rifle in a suitable caliber. I once shot a hippo in the water with an scoped rifle caliber 500 Schüler because I only had it , but an rifle caliber 375 H&H Magnum would have been also enough for an brain shot.

 

[rookhawk]

I wouldn't touch a new Sabatti with a ten foot pole, just my opinion.

There is one savant in the nation that is the maestro at taking useless sabattis and making them into well-regulated shooting machines. (and you certainly could feel a degree of comfort buying a used one worked over by Ken). However, if you buy new and its an unusable gun, what will you do? There is no guarantee that Ken will be willing to rework and reregulate the rifle. If he declines, you have a nothing-burger.

All the replies encouraging a scoped magazine rifle for hippo are spot-on as well.

 

[Foxi]

a sure shot at the size of a cigarette box (in water).
What are you doing there with a double rifle?
Your first hunt and then something as boring as this.
You'd better go chase an old elandbull for the money; he'll show you.
But you have probably seen too many videos of MS, this is absolutely nothing for beginners.
Not at all.