6.5x55 reloading help

[Pheroze]

I wondering if you folks mind helping me with this load development. I started with 160gr Woodleigh RN SN over H4350. Start load is 40.0 and max is 44. Increasing by 0.5 I only got to 41gr then decided to switch to the 160gr PP SN for the better BC. No pressure signs with the RN at this point.

With the PPSN

COL: I measured the lands by chambering a dummy round. Repeat 10 times and took the average. Lands were at 3.218". Seat bullet to 3.178 (0.040 off the lands)

Brass: sellier & Bellot reused.
Primer : CCI BR2
Lee factory crimp lightly-medium pressure (half a turn in from touching the case holder)

Powder: H4350, Start load 40 gr increasing by 0.5. At 41gr the primers started to flatten. I shot one at 41.5 and it looks like that was almost a stupid move.

From L to R 40.5 gr, 41.0gr, 41.5gr

The group at 40.5gr was not great, probably about 3" at 50 yard but it's actually hard to tell because the wind was really blowing. Not the best. Because of the wind I did not chrono.

I am wondering where to go from here? Do I slowly increase from 40.5 to 41 to see if the group tightens before pressure shows. Do I abandon this recipe all together because it would seem to be not good? Have I made a mistake somewhere along the line?

Any advice and criticism is welcome.

I am trying to get this load done for my son for our moose hunt starting October 11. Got my '06 set without any issues so this is new to me!

Thanks.

 

[ZG47]

Pheroze

You have not clearly stated what you are doing and why you are doing it!

You have mentioned overall length as if that is a criterion for bullet seating, as opposed to being critical for reliable feeding.

Are you measuring overall length for bullet seating purposes?

Are you checking fit and then turning down the seating stem the appropriate amount to ensure .040" clearance from the rifling in the barrel leade

OR

Are you using a bullet seating gauge to measure and set length from base to ogive?

I suggest that you sit back, have a think about what you have done and why you have done it and then ... .restate your query in a considered manner so that we can help, rather than confuse you.

 

[Rob404]

Wish I would have seen this a little earlier when I was looking for something to do in the garage. As an owner of a 6.5Swede Mauser modded for sporter use I have worked on some loads just to see how the gun shot but never got serious with it but I do remember the Swede I have seemed to like lighter bullets than 160, as far as loads I have to check but the 49th edition Lyman Manual says with H4350
160gr Hornady round nose the load goes from 39.5 low to 44gr Hi so it appears your in the ball park. I have only been into re-loading for 4 years so I have limited knowledge but I don't see where changing powder amount by that small of an amount would have any bearing on primer strikes, I think I have some Woodleighs in the bullet drawer, if I do or I have any other 160s I'll load some up to your specs and see what happens and see how it Chronos and Groups. You may also want to go on line and find Hogdens loading website and see what they say as you can get load info on all weights and different makes of powdersJMTC

 

[Pheroze]

Sorry for the information dump! I was shocked that I got pressure signs so early on. I felt stuck because I assumed I had to speed up the bullet to tighten the group and I did not know how to do that.

Basic question then is: can I use this load and make it more accurate? If so, what is my first step to solving the riddle.

I chose 0.04 off the lands because the Woodleigh manual suggested between 0.02-0.04.

 

[Pheroze]

Hi Rob44,

The primer issue made me concerned I had not done something correctly. I tried to list everything I did because I hoped someone with more experience could identify the mis-step. As ZG47 correctly pointed out, I am not sure what is the right question to ask next with this problem!

 

[Rob404]

Sorry for the information dump! I was shocked that I got pressure signs so early on. I felt stuck because I assumed I had to speed up the bullet to tighten the group and I did not know how to do that.

Basic question then is: can I use this load and make it more accurate? If so, what is my first step to solving the riddle.

I chose 0.04 off the lands because the Woodleigh manual suggested between 0.02-0.04.

Weather permitting I will be experimenting on bullet set-back verses accuracy Tomorrow, I loaded bullets starting from zero set back to a max of 20 all the same amount of powder,type and bullet, I.m anxious to see the velocity and accuracy differences if any, the rifle already shoots lights out just a touch off the grooves. In my limited experience I think 40 thou is a bit much. Damn you got me thinking I.m going to grab the Swede out of the closet and measure OAL with my device

 

[Rob404]

Ok I get 321.8 using a 160 Woodleigh also,,Mine being EX military I thought I'd check

 

[Pheroze]

Weather permitting I will be experimenting on bullet set-back verses accuracy Tomorrow, I loaded bullets starting from zero set back to a max of 20 all the same amount of powder,type and bullet, I.m anxious to see the velocity and accuracy differences if any, the rifle already shoots lights out just a touch off the grooves. In my limited experience I think 40 thou is a bit much. Damn you got me thinking I.m going to grab the Swede out of the closet and measure OAL with my device

I hope your primers cooperate more than mine. If I have seated the bullet too deep would that spike the pressure to flatten the primers?

I am using a Zastava and there is tons of room in the magazine to seat the bullet out as far as I like.

 

[Rob404]

Try some loads slightlty snug against the lands then load some 10thou and then some 20thou and see what happens, Check your firing pin for depth and wear

 

[Pheroze]

Ok, will do. Are you thinking I start at the 40.5 and work up with a different COL?

 

[Rob404]

Ok, will do. Are you thinking I start at the 40.5 and work up with a different COL?

Heres what I'm doing, Same powder,same amount, different OAL, I.ll measure accuracy and muzzle velocity and pic the best OAL/accuracy. If you plan on staying with the 160s then you can start to juice the powder a little without going over the limit. If you want to go farther try a different powder but that gets expensive . Checking your powder on line I think your in good shape

 

[Pheroze]

Heres what I'm doing, Same powder,same amount, different OAL, I.ll measure accuracy and muzzle velocity and pic the best OAL/accuracy. If you plan on staying with the 160s then you can start to juice the powder a little without going over the limit. If you want to go farther try a different powder but that gets expensive . Checking your powder on line I think your in good shape

Wow, that's really awesome for you to do all that! Really appreciate it.

 

[Pheroze]

My assumption is that getting pressure signs so early is due to the fact I did something wrong in developing the cartridge. I presumed that if the Woodleigh manual has the max load at 44gr then a properly made cartridge would get up to that. I am thinking now that my assumption is wrong. Is there something I can do to prevent this pressure problem or is it a function of factors out of my control?

 

[Rob404]

My assumption is that getting pressure signs so early is due to the fact I did something wrong in developing the cartridge. I presumed that if the Woodleigh manual has the max load at 44gr then a properly made cartridge would get up to that. I am thinking now that my assumption is wrong. Is there something I can do to prevent this pressure problem or is it a function of factors out of my control?

How old is your brass I don't think 41.5 gr should hurt anything since I get a Max at 44gr is Max. Does your case show any signs of pressure beside the flattening of the primer.

 

[Pheroze]

Brass is Sellier & Bellot that I bought this year as loaded ammo. Bought four boxes to break in the gun and then use the brass. I have noticed that this brass seems very robust compared to Win or Hornady brass that I have used in my other calibers.

 

[Pheroze]

No other signs of pressure but that primer on the right is quite distended

 

[Rob404]

No other signs of pressure but that primer on the right is quite distended

I.ve had brass run through my 375 plenty of times without a problem so far beside a worn out pocket, can you try a different make of primer, I have heard of batches of hard primers, also do you hand prime or machine, I hand prime

 

[Pheroze]

I prime using the Lee press. It has a little priming widget that attaches to the press.

I have used these primers successfully to load Hornady interlocks in my 30-06 and ttsx in a 270 Win. Having said that, if the primers seem to be at issue I have no problem scooting down to the store to get some.

I am loading a couple of little experiments. I have seated the bullet out to .02 off the lands and I will work up from 40.5gr, 0.1grain at a time until I see pressure (should be as I get to 41gr). If no pressure signs then it may be related to seating depth. I am also thinking of loading up different COL with the last safe load, being 40.5gr, just to see if it helps with accuracy at that load.

If I get pressure signs as I approach 41 gr with the first test, then I will get different primers and work up from the start again. What do you think?

 

[Rob404]

I prime using the Lee press. It has a little priming widget that attaches to the press.

I have used these primers successfully to load Hornady interlocks in my 30-06 and ttsx in a 270 Win. Having said that, if the primers seem to be at issue I have no problem scooting down to the store to get some.

I am loading a couple of little experiments. I have seated the bullet out to .02 off the lands and I will work up from 40.5gr, 0.1grain at a time until I see pressure (should be as I get to 41gr). If no pressure signs then it may be related to seating depth. I am also thinking of loading up different COL with the last safe load, being 40.5gr, just to see if it helps with accuracy at that load.

If I get pressure signs as I approach 41 gr with the first test, then I will get different primers and work up from the start again. What do you think?

I.m also wondering why your firing pin hits of center, I don't know if thats a problem or not, I would try some other primers just for S--ts and giggles and see what happens.Actually working on your problem is actually helping me, 6.5 swedes are supposed to be very accurate and I could never understand why mine would never group so I put it in the closet and moved on, but your post tweaked my interest so dragged out some of my loads and did some OAL measurements and I'm all over the place. I chalk this up to being less experienced understanding bullet set back when I started to re-load. so I'm going to pull and re-set my loads and also load up a few 160gr Woodleighs using your spec and see what I come up with

 

[Pheroze]

Got to the range and the aforementioned experiments lead to two discoveries: first that at .01 off the lands this rifle is sub MOA. The difference in accuracy between .04, .02 and .01 is amazing. Second discovery occured when a range officer took a look at what was going on. His opinion is that it is not a pressure issue. He believes it is a problem with the firing pin. We were joined by another range officer who agreed. I got some advice about ajusting a mauser bolt. So, all in all, and eventful trip to the range!