9.3x62 Bullet Swap Question

Woodcarver

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Called Nosler this morning and he could not answer this question, so I thought I'd see if any of you might know or have tried this.
I picked up a fair supply of Nosler Safari 9.3x62 286gr Solids when they had a closeout a while back in anticipation of adding a rifle in this caliber to the herd. Btw, the guy at Nosler could tell me the 9.3 solid has been discontinued. What I would like to do is pull the solids and reseat 286gr Partitions in their place, which I have a good supply of. Have any of you done this? Logic indicates it should work, but I've not done a swap like this with factory ammo before. Thoughts?
 
I wouldn't hesitate. One thing I can tell you is the Nosler I purchased were about 200 fps slower than the velocity on the box. Both with the Trophy and Safari brands. I am using a 25.5" barrel.
 
I wouldn't hesitate. One thing I can tell you is the Nosler I purchased were about 200 fps slower than the velocity on the box. Both with the Trophy and Safari brands. I am using a 25.5" barrel.
Thanks, that's kinda what I thought as well.
I haven't run any of this over the Chrony. The box claims 2400fps. Whatever it is, my CZ likes the load; shot a couple 1" groups off the sticks yesterday. Planned on playing at the range some more today, but the storm that rolled in last night has changed those plans. Some bench time pulling and reseating bullets seems more in order...
 
Thanks, that's kinda what I thought as well.
I haven't run any of this over the Chrony. The box claims 2400fps. Whatever it is, my CZ likes the load; shot a couple 1" groups off the sticks yesterday. Planned on playing at the range some more today, but the storm that rolled in last night has changed those plans. Some bench time pulling and reseating bullets seems more in order...
Both types I had said 2400 but ran them over 2 chrony's at 2200. Called Nosler said they must have been labeled wrong???
 
It is my experience that most hunters, fisherman and ammunition manufacturers use different measuring devices than I use. :LOL:

Most Nosler and factory ammo that I have chronographed has been 100+fps less than the advertised velocity. Oddly, Norma, Federal and Remington are normally about dead on.

Safe shooting
 
It is my experience that most hunters, fisherman and ammunition manufacturers use different measuring devices than I use. :LOL:

Most Nosler and factory ammo that I have chronographed has been 100+fps less than the advertised velocity. Oddly, Norma, Federal and Remington are normally about dead on.

Safe shooting
Haven't met a fisherman yet that wasn't missing the first few inches off their tape measure, lol!
I buy very little factory ammo, so I have very little chrony data on it. Typically only pick up a box or 2 if I get a rifle in a new caliber so I can get a scope mounted and on paper before working up a load. This Nosler 9.3x62 was on a closeout sale below component prices at the time (<$40/box), so I bought a case of it knowing I would have a rifle for it at some point. Some of it will get shot over my Chrony for reference. With a 24" barrel, I would expect it to be slower than listed. Seems I read somewhere most of their numbers were from a 26" proof barrel.
 
@Woodcarver: Great price on the ammo.

I have worked up loads using Hornady 275 brass and then checked the load by just pulling bullets on factory Hornady 275 ammo. I pulled the bullets, tossed the powder and loaded the bullet and powder charge I had worked up into the new Hornady 275 brass. Accuracy and velocity was basically the same.

Safe shooting
 
Both types I had said 2400 but ran them over 2 chrony's at 2200. Called Nosler said they must have been labeled wrong???
Both Nosler and Swift seem to be doing a fair amount of wishful thinking when it comes to nominal muzzle velocities with their 286 grain ammo. Swift's website data said 2,396 fps, but my 24" barrel voted and it averaged 2,290 fps.

To be fair, last week I tested Swift's 180 grain A-Frame ammo with a nominal muzzle velocity of 2,724 fps from a 24" barrel. My 24" barrel got an average muzzle velocity of 2,736 fps and very good hunting groups.

Go figure.
 
There’s something to consider here. The Nosler Partition is a conventional lead cored bullet. The Nosler solid is a monolithic bullet. Since monolithic bullets are less dense than lead cored bullets, a monolithic bullet would have to be longer in order to achieve the same weight as a lead cored bullet. In other words, a 286Gr Nosler solid would be longer (and thus consume more case capacity) than a 286Gr Nosler Partition.
 
There’s something to consider here. The Nosler Partition is a conventional lead cored bullet. The Nosler solid is a monolithic bullet. Since monolithic bullets are less dense than lead cored bullets, a monolithic bullet would have to be longer in order to achieve the same weight as a lead cored bullet. In other words, a 286Gr Nosler solid would be longer (and thus consume more case capacity) than a 286Gr Nosler Partition.
Keen observer Hunter-Habib is. What does Nosler reload data say about powder charge differences between the bullets?
 
Keen observer Hunter-Habib is. What does Nosler reload data say about powder charge differences between the bullets?
Nosler's load data lists both, with a 0.01" difference in seating depth; the Partition actually having the longer COL at 3.220, the solid at 3.210. It does not differentiate between the solid and the Partition in charge weight.
What I found after disassembling the 286gr solids, the bullet itself is 0.04" longer than the Partition: that difference being below the cannelure. The factory solids had a COL of 3.202. Seating the 286gr Partition to match the recommendations in a couple manuals, including Nosler's, has the Partition COL at 3.221-3.225 which puts the crimp in the bottom half of the cannelure.
Figured as long as I was looking at this, I would try a few other 286gr bullets and a 270gr. So if the temporary river recedes in the sandcreek tomorrow, I shall do some testing over the Chrony for both accuracy and velocity. Might take a couple days to complete, with 5 rounds each of 6 different bullets to shoot. And some test loads for a 458 Lott to play with as well. My shoulder might demand the extension, even with a Past pad.
 
Well, the river receded, the skies cleared, and the wind is but a gentle breeze today. Had everything out and setup to start running these loads over the Chrony. But when I walked out to the backstop to hang targets, I saw fresh tracks in the mud, then saw a doe just over the edge of the sandcreek beyond the backstop. She was just staring at me, but not moving away. About 40-50yds from me.
Figured I would "encourage" her to move away, so I walked up and crossed the fence. That finally got her to trot off and head north. About that time, I saw what I initially thought was one of our rather large jackrabbits lying in the grass, then realized it was too dark, and had spots! This little guy was less than 12 hours old, probably closer to 6 or 8, when I found it.
So much for shooting today; have to find something else to do this afternoon....
1686775041231.jpeg
 
The Nosler Reloading manual shows both bullets together with one set of loads, so you are good. Where folks get in trouble switching bullets is where the bearing surfaces and/or constriction are different enough, singly or together, to materially impact pressure.
 
The river receded, the deer finally wandered far enough away for me to ignore, and the bench was put to use. The Chrony and the targets gave me some interesting feedback on 6 different bullets, all on top of the factory charge of powder.
The rifle used is a CZ550 American that I put a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40 BDC scope on, in CZ factory rings. Single set trigger, which I did use after the first round; alternating between each load. 25" barrel.
The factory powder charge averaged 59.1gr, with a high of 59.5gr, and a low of 58.8gr. They used an extruded powder that appears to have been slightly compressed under the 286gr solid. As all the other bullets were slightly shorter, both overall and below the cannelure on those with one, I believe the powder was not compressed with any of the replacement bullets. None of these showed any pressure signs after firing.
On the day of shooting, temp was about 73*-74*. (Broke my thermometer not too long ago and haven't replaced it yet). Breeze was out of the south at 3-5mph, roughly 90* R-L. Took the time to walk to the target after every round and marking the target, giving the barrel time to cool between shots (3-5 minutes between).
Shot from the bench with my rest screwed up to allow a fairly vertical posture; very similar to shooting off the sticks, but sitting.
After the comments on getting lower than listed velocities, I was mildly surprised to find my readings to be above the velocity shown on the box. As I have spent a lot of time to eliminate lighting issues that can cause discrepancies, and have checked other loads against friend's chronographs, I think these are reasonably accurate findings.
The factory Nosler 286gr Solids had the highest average velocity at 2554fps, and also the lowest spread at only 8fps. 5 rounds gave me a "huntable" group just over 2" (largest group of the day). They also had a POI roughly 1" right of everything else.
The 286gr Partitions had the lowest average velocity at 2505fps, with the spread at 16fps. Slightly better group at 1.77".
The 285gr Norma Oryx averaged 2524fps, with the same spread as the Partition. And no surprise, to me anyway, printed at the same POI with a group size of 1.95". Based on trials of these two bullets in other calibers, I expected these to be interchangeable.
The PPU 270gr SP averaged 2557fps, right there with the 286gr Solid, but an inch higher POI, directly above everything else. This bullet played nicely with the rifle and had a 1.28" group with 3 cloverleafed.
Apparently, this combination really matched well with the 286gr Woodleigh PP/SN. Seated to a COL of 3.163", the 5 rounds averaged 2525fps, the worst spread at 23fps, but the best group at 1.05".
And the last bullet, a Hornady 286gr SP, averaged 2513fps and produced a 1.55" group. Only have a partial box of these, so this load was really just for fun.
With this outcome, I've pulled another 10 and replaced 5 with Woodleighs and 5 with the 270gr PPU to see if a 2nd round yields the same results.
The day of shooting I was slogging through a little mud and trickling water to reach my backstop. The 2nd round has been delayed as we had another storm roll through that evening and the next couple days, and my shooting range looked like this on the 23rd-
1687829123863.jpeg


Might get back to the range in another day or so if duties as State Commissioner for Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken don't get in the way; as the month of July gets pretty busy with baseball tournaments. Warmer temps and no more rain have made it possible to get to the backstop without waders again. Looks like this tonight-

1687831169133.jpeg
 
@Woodcarver when you are writing ppu do you mean speer?
as the only ppu/prvi bullet i know is the 285 grains. and the only 270 grains i know aside the norma mono solid is the speer 270 grains.

thank you for the speed report that is interesting. every bullet and barrel can bring some surprise for sure.
 
@Woodcarver when you are writing ppu do you mean speer?
as the only ppu/prvi bullet i know is the 285 grains. and the only 270 grains i know aside the norma mono solid is the speer 270 grains.

thank you for the speed report that is interesting. every bullet and barrel can bring some surprise for sure.
Glad you resurrected this as I have since found an issue with the numbers I reported.
The 270gr bullets came with my 9.3x74R Chapuis, in bags marked as PPU (not factory bags). They look and measure identically to the box of Speer 270gr SP that I have. Would not surprise me if they are actually Speers.
What I have determined after making this report, is that my old Chrony is no longer giving me accurate readings. So I re-shot some of this experiment after buying a new ProChrono DLX. The new numbers are more in line with what I had expected, and closer to what others had experienced.
The factory Nosler 286gr Solids averaged 2394fps, which is very close to the 2400fps listed on the box, and 1.3" group for the 5 rounds. The Woodleigh 286gr PP/SN averaged 2379fps and without the called flyer, put 4 rounds in 1.25"; the flyer pushed it to 1.76".
With the results gathered with this rifle/loads and a couple others shot since, the old Chrony was giving me readings about 150-160fps high that day. Running it in tandem with the new ProChrono has shown the Chrony to be inconsistently high. Lots of digging into old records, and shooting some old loads across the tandem setup, has shown that the Chrony started lying to me late last summer. :E Tap Foot: :mad: Quite frustrating. But fortunately, it allowed me to confirm a number of other loads that had been developed prior to August last year. After 30+ years of good service, the Chrony has been officially retired.
Just a side note that might save some of you some headache, there is no way to recalibrate any of the chronographs out there. The really expensive ones might be worth the effort to adjust the sensor spacing (and that would be a LOT of effort), but realistically, when one of them is determined to be out of spec, the solution is to buy a new one. Even with a new one, it is suggested to run some control loads over it, either a previously measured load or a factory load of some sort that tends to be consistent (like 22LR Match ammo), to see how the new chrono registers. And not a bad idea to start every session with 5 rounds to "calibrate" for that day's efforts.
Consistency in lighting seems to be the most critical factor in getting consistent readings from any of these chronographs. That was something I had figured out years ago and after multiple attempts, finally came up with a simple oversize diffuser that seems to work well, and works with any of the remote chronographs. Since I don't have, and haven't ever used one of the barrel mounted systems like LabRadar, I can't speak to those.
 
I tried it with a .416 Ruger and Hornady ammo. Pulled the 400gr SP and replaced with 400gr Swift AF. No issue.
 

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