9.3x74r double

[thriller]

Hello I picked up a 9.3x74r double of an unknown manufacturer it is said to be a fabrique national, but is see no indication of such. I am in the trial period and have a while to shoot/examine. I shot a lot today and it is shooting high and right ( not a concern as I did not try to sight it in on the scope) I was just looking for the pattern. At 50 meters the group was about 4x4.5 inches. Pictures below. The gun is old and not of top tier quality, but might be a good hunting/ working gun. There is no known regulated load for it and I was using 286 grain swift a frames from federal premium to test fire. The muzzles show some signs of grinding and a weird aftermarket plug. The question is is it worth keeping ( if so what can I do to improve accuracy), is it acceptable the way it is, or should I return it?

 

[CAustin]

Congratulations on the find

 

[Red Leg]

It is Belgian. Whether FN or not is not really important. Judge the rifle not the name. The barrel mating is first class without the solder packing so often seen on modern rifles to hide bad mating. The "after market plug" you describe isn't and isn't "weird." Some very fine Continental rifles left the regulating plug exposed as did this gunmaker as a demonstration of the regulating care that went into building it. The bushed firing pins are typically only found on better quality guns and rifles. They are commensurate with the quality of the engraving. I have no idea why you consider the rifle of not top tier quality. No, it isn't a Holland & Holland Royal - few things are - but it has all the characteristics of a top quality Belgian boxlock. I see no indication of barrel grinding. I assume it has some form of claw mounts for the scope - another quality touch.

Many Continental doubles were regulated for loads lighter than the 280 class loads. They were red stag and wild boar rifles for which a lighter load would be more appropriate.

Because the mark is on both barrels and action, the AJH mark likely would tell us who built it. I do not have my reference handy.

If you don't want it, send me a PM.

 

[thriller]

It is Belgian. Whether FN or not is not really important. Judge the rifle not the name. The barrel mating is first class without the solder packing so often seen on modern rifles to hide bad mating. The "after market plug" you describe isn't and isn't "weird." Some very fine Continental rifles left the regulating plug exposed as did this gunmaker as a demonstration of the regulating care that went into building it. The bushed firing pins are typically only found on better quality guns and rifles. They are commensurate with the quality of the engraving. I have no idea why you consider the rifle of not top tier quality. No, it isn't a Holland & Holland Royal - few things are - but it has all the characteristics of a top quality Belgian boxlock. I see no indication of barrel grinding. I assume it has some form of claw mounts for the scope - another quality touch.

Many Continental doubles were regulated for loads lighter than the 280 class loads. They were red stag and wild boar rifles for which a lighter load would be more appropriate.

The AJH mark likely would tell us who built it, but I don't have my reference handy.

If you don't want it, send me a PM.

Hey I am looking for info and am going off very little so anything helps thank you

and as to the quality comment that what I have been flat told by the seller and a gunsmith that does doubles I sent photos too. Also that’s where I got the comment about the bit sticking out the middle in the front. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know a whole lot about it. It may have been a good deal maybe not that’s why I am asking for a little more experienced folks than me to comment. Thanks again every bit helps

 

[Red Leg]

Hey I am looking for info and am going off very little so anything helps thank you

No problem. Simply looks like a very well made rifle. Screws are a little buggered up, so someone without a clue peeked inside. If you have the time, send it to JJ Perodeau. For a reasonable fee, he will tell you whether it is worth the investment.

JJ Perodeau Gunmaker

 

[wesheltonj]

Google is your friend. German.

T&G German Gun Imports - About us / Contact / Information

SAVE THE FINE GUNS

www.german-gun-imports.com

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Nice double. Congrats.

 

[Hunter4752001]

Armes Jacquemart Herstal ????

 

[grand veneur]

In old rifles and in particular in double rifles, it is IMHO not always advisable to use hard bullets like the A-frame from Swift. Softer bullets such as the classic 18,5g TM / 286gr SP are more likely to be recommended and eventually this kind of rifle may have been regulated with them. It might be worth a try.

 

[Red Leg]

Google is your friend. German.

T&G German Gun Imports - About us / Contact / Information

SAVE THE FINE GUNS

www.german-gun-imports.com

The proof marks are Belgian. From wherever it may have been imported, it was made in Belgium and went through proof in Liege.

 

[Sarg]

It is Belgian. Whether FN or not is not really important. Judge the rifle not the name. The barrel mating is first class without the solder packing so often seen on modern rifles to hide bad mating. The "after market plug" you describe isn't and isn't "weird." Some very fine Continental rifles left the regulating plug exposed as did this gunmaker as a demonstration of the regulating care that went into building it. The bushed firing pins are typically only found on better quality guns and rifles. They are commensurate with the quality of the engraving. I have no idea why you consider the rifle of not top tier quality. No, it isn't a Holland & Holland Royal - few things are - but it has all the characteristics of a top quality Belgian boxlock. I see no indication of barrel grinding. I assume it has some form of claw mounts for the scope - another quality touch.

Many Continental doubles were regulated for loads lighter than the 280 class loads. They were red stag and wild boar rifles for which a lighter load would be more appropriate.

Because the mark is on both barrels and action, the AJH mark likely would tell us who built it. I do not have my reference handy.

If you don't want it, send me a PM.

Looks like a nice rifle, with some high end features, but I'm sorry Red Leg there appears to be heavy barrel grinding there, only really a issue on big game as it might effect how stable a bullet is after impact but still not a good sign at all !

 

[thriller]

Looks like a nice rifle, with some high end features, but I'm sorry Red Leg there appears to be heavy barrel grinding there, only really a issue on big game as it might effect how stable a bullet is after impact but still not a good sign at all !

View attachment 466147

View attachment 466150

This is a major concern of mine with this gun. Can this be corrected and if so how much would it be?

 

[WAB]

Get it to JJ Perideau. If the seller refuses, you have your answer. I’m wondering if a deep re-crown would address it, but he is the man who will know.

He may also have some insight into what it’s original regulation load was.

 

[thriller]

Get it to JJ Perideau. If the seller refuses, you have your answer. I’m wondering if a deep re-crown would address it, but he is the man who will know.

He may also have some insight into what it’s original regulation load was.

Yea that is what I am leaning towards

 

[Red Leg]

Missed that. The condition of the rifling at the muzzle would tell the story.

Get it to JJ for an evaluation.

Just enlarged the photo. Someone seriously damaged those barrels. I would run away from it. I would guess three-quarters of the doubles I see in this country have had the destructive attention of some shade tree "gunsmith."

Can't just re-crown a double. I am pretty sure that mess would have to be cut away, rib shortened, and the barrels reregulated. Just criminal.

 

[thriller]

The gun is going back to the seller and is going to get worked on. I get a full refund, in the meantime if he gets it fixed he says I have first right of refusal when it is resold. I have to say that is a good man.

 

[Sarg]

Good out come I would say, not sure what you were paying for this double but it would have to be very cheap to even think of keeping it if you couldn't get a refund.

If it came from the factory that way that alone puts the whole rifles workman ship into doubt, it needs sight/ribs lifting/removing, barrel cut back to fresh clean rifling & re-regulation.

As has been said, JJ Perodeau (if he will do it) Aaron Little or Ken Owen will fix "that" problem up nicely.

Might be good thing as you can have it regulated to a load you want for your use, the 9.3X74 is a very good killer with heavy slugs on big game, I have been surprised by this as a lot of my hunters have been using it in recent years.

Suppose I shouldn't as I used the 9.3X62 a fair bit !

On thinking on this a little I wonder if the scope mount or even the scope was added/changed by a less than stellar "Gunsmith" & he did the barrel grinding to get the rifle back on paper as the scope or mount could effect the regulation ?

Saying that from the photos it looks like the scope mounting was well done, that extra claw mount just looks suspicious as it points to two different scopes or one added ?

 

[thriller]

Good out come I would say, not sure what you were paying for this double but it would have to be very cheap to even think of keeping it if you couldn't get a refund.

If it came from the factory that way that alone puts the whole rifles workman ship into doubt, it needs sight/ribs lifting/removing, barrel cut back to fresh clean rifling & re-regulation.

As has been said, JJ Perodeau (if he will do it) Aaron Little or Ken Owen will fix "that" problem up nicely.

Might be good thing as you can have it regulated to a load you want for your use, the 9.3X74 is a very good killer with heavy slugs on big game, I have been surprised by this as a lot of my hunters have been using it in recent years.

Suppose I shouldn't as I used the 9.3X62 a fair bit !

On thinking on this a little I wonder if the scope mount or even the scope was added/changed by a less than stellar "Gunsmith" & he did the barrel grinding to get the rifle back on paper as the scope or mount could effect the regulation ?

Saying that from the photos it looks like the scope mounting was well done, that extra claw mount just looks suspicious as it points to two different scopes or one added ?

Yea it was cheap and therefore tempting we shall see if they can get it fixed

 

[VertigoBE]

On thinking on this a little I wonder if the scope mount or even the scope was added/changed by a less than stellar "Gunsmith" & he did the barrel grinding to get the rifle back on paper as the scope or mount could effect the regulation ?

Saying that from the photos it looks like the scope mounting was well done, that extra claw mount just looks suspicious as it points to two different scopes or one added ?

Having an extra claw mount position is not that uncommon on European rifles. It allows for the mounting of two very different types of optics, one usually a straight tube “reflex” optic for driven hunts and the other a big front objective, light gathering optic for stand hunting at dusk and dawn.

 

[Sarg]

Yes I know but is it not more common on single barreled rifles or even Drillings so it won't effect the regulation ?

Excellent idea wish I could afford them myself !

Great to have posters from all over the world as we get a better insight into these things, thank you for posting @VertigoBE