9mm semi auto carbine

[Rick Cox]

OK Folks, so staying at home, thinking about a distopian future, and suddenly find myself wondering about home defense carbines. The idea of a short barrelled carbine in 9mm is interesting, cheap available ammo, limited penetration , maneuverable etc. One issue is Canadian law. I do have a license to own restricted weapons, non-restricted is better, but would love to hear your recommendations. For what ever reason AR's are restricted but TAVORS are not. Go figure. Oh yeah. I'd like to keep the price below $1000.

 

[CoElkHunter]

OK Folks, so staying at home, thinking about a distopian future, and suddenly find myself wondering about home defense carbines. The idea of a short barrelled carbine in 9mm is interesting, cheap available ammo, limited penetration , maneuverable etc. One issue is Canadian law. I do have a license to own restricted weapons, non-restricted is better, but would love to hear your recommendations. For what ever reason AR's are restricted but TAVORS are not. Go figure. Oh yeah. I'd like to keep the price below $1000.

Don’t bother. 12ga shotgun modified choke with 00 buckshot prints a 12-16” pattern at 25 yds. I’ll use that in my Remington 11-87 over my AR at that distance, but to each their own?

 

[Rick Cox]

Don’t bother. 12ga shotgun modified choke with 00 buckshot prints a 12-16” pattern at 25 yds. I’ll use that in my Remington 11-87 over my AR at that distance, but to each their own?

I've got a Rem 870 Marine Special and a quantity of 00 buck. But the carbine idea is still interesting.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I've got a Rem 870 Marine Special and a quantity of 00 buck. But the carbine idea is still interesting.

Yes, the carbine is still a great choice. My brother in law has a Ruger Camp carbine 9mm. I’ve shot it and it’s accurate with low recoil and fun to shoot. But when you shoot 00 buck out of a modified choked shotgun, it can really get out at distance and touch someone! But, pick your poison?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Ruger PC carbine

 

[CoElkHunter]

Ruger PC carbine

Your right. PC carbine. Waiting for them to chamber it in 10mm to go with my Glock.

 

[Newboomer]

Check out a Marlin model 94 in 44 mag/44spl or 357 mag/38spl. If you like a good lever gun these are great. About the same size and weight as an AR, have good capacity and throw a sizeable slug.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Check out a Marlin model 94 in 44 mag/44spl or 357 mag/38spl. If you like a good lever gun these are great. About the same size and weight as an AR, have good capacity and throw a sizeable slug.

Last summer, I shot a friend of a friend’s Henry .357 mag rifle. The magazine tube held a bunch of .357s. It was accurate with very low recoil. Fun to shoot!

 

[Trogon]

I have a few choices, both Marlin lever rifles: 1894C in .357 Rem Mag, and a Remlin 1894 in .45 Colt. I had a Hi-Point in 9mm but would rather have the Marlin Camp Carbine or Ruger carbine. Passed on a used Marlin Camp Carbine a few months ago, looked good, price was $600.

 

[USMA84DAB]

5.56x45 over-penetrates less than 9mm/.40/.45 - because it fragments - if you have anyone else in the house that could be hit by the bullet winging through multiple walls, then you should find a weapon chambered in this cartridge - plus it can be much more devastating to the bad guys than 9mm - anyone can tolerate the recoil (wife, youths) whereas a 12 gauge is probably too stout for most in that category -

This assumes the wife and teen (if you have kids) have been trained and are able to shoot to stop a threat.

Which brings up, by the way, are you ready to shoot to stop the threat? Everyone buys weapons and thinks they are ready to defend themselves - training and working out in your head if you will pull the trigger on the bad guy without hesitating - those are kind of important too.

I taught Concealed Carry classes for the state of MO for a decade or so - big can of worms here.

The idea of a Ruger carbine with a Glock Happy Stick does sound like a good time!

 

[crs]

Winchester m 1892 in .357 MAG + m19 S&W

 

[mikecatt13]

I have no idea about Canadian law but I do know a fair bit about 9mm carbines. The most reliable I've seen with good mags besides JP Enterprises is the ruger. My custom home built AR9 is very reliable but it's not cheap and I still wouldnt trust my life to it, not sure I would the ruger either. But lots of AR9s do have reliability issues when the wrong parts of combinations of parts are used. This is all with target ammo, being blowback operated, using defense ammo could open up a whole host of other problems. I've probably witnessed at least 500k rounds being fired out of these platforms, while they are fun they are just not life and death trustworthy IMO. 1 malfunction in every 1000 or even 5000 rounds isnt bad really but I want my odds to be way smaller when my life depends on it

 

[mdwest]

9mm is fun... but there is a reason every major counter terrorist team in the western world transitioned away from 9mm SMGs to 556 carbines in the 90’s and early 2000’s...

If your concern is a dystopian future.. 9mm is better than nothing..

But it’s not going to provide anywhere near the results or the flexibility that a Tavor 21 is..

 

[Opposite Pole]

Your right. PC carbine. Waiting for them to chamber it in 10mm to go with my Glock.

Stag Arms and CMMG both have 10mm PCCs

 

[Opposite Pole]

Here is my 10” barrel AR15-9 from Schmeisser. It takes standard Glock magazines. Presently I’ve got a 10 round one (came with the gun), two 33 rounders and one 50 round drum. So far I’ve shot just over a 1000 rounds out of it with no hiccups. Pictured next to my P229 with a 20rd P226 mag.

Stock open

Stock collapsed

 

[CoElkHunter]

Stag Arms and CMMG both have 10mm PCCs

Do either take standard Glock magazines?

 

[Rick Cox]

Check out a Marlin model 94 in 44 mag/44spl or 357 mag/38spl. If you like a good lever gun these are great. About the same size and weight as an AR, have good capacity and throw a sizeable slug.

Funny thing , I had one of these about 49 years ago. Made a very lucky shot on a very big grizzly with it...

 

[Opposite Pole]

Do either take standard Glock magazines?

Both do, Stag's website lists 45 and 10mm as "coming soon" though.

 

[Standard Velocity]

PCC or shotgun makes sense inside a home to me. The concussion of a 223 is going to be deafening. I went shotgun but a PCC, especially with a Levang compensator, sounds very reasonable.

 

[mdwest]

How much shooting in close quarters have you done with a 556 or otherwise?

I can assure you all of its deafening (from a guy that has shot tens of thousands of rounds from inside vehicles, inside houses, inside other confined areas, and been on more FISHing expeditions than I can count (Fighting In Someones House)..

I can also assure you than when fighting for your life.. the last thing on earth you are concerned about is the noise..

While I dont know the laws/rules in Canada regarding suppressors.. They are becoming more and more prevalent here in the US.. and a short, affordable 6" can on the end of a 556 carbine solves the noise problem, if it in fact is a deal breaker for someone.. Combine that 6" can with a bullpup like the Tavor, or a SBR.. and you have a weapon that is just as easy to work in a close quarters situation as a pistol caliber carbine or an SMG.. and FAR easier to manipulate and work than an 18" barreld "combat" shotgun.. while also bringing SIGNIFICANTLY more ammo on the platform to the fight than the shotgun, and SIGNIFICANTLY more terminal performance than the PCC..

Again.. there is a reason FBI HRT, SEAL Team 6 / DEVGRU, Delta/CAG, every major metropolitan SWAT team in the US, and every western international counter terrorist team ditched pistol caliber platforms by the early 2000's (the trend started in the 1980s).. and have resorted to only using shotguns for breaching (that also started in the 80's and was pretty much complete by the early 2000's)..

Simply put.. Joe Biden got it wrong.. if you want to defend your home.. a shotgun is one of the worst possible options.. and a pistol caliber carbine isnt much better..

A shotgun with lethal ammunition (buck or slugs) has serious over penetration issues, isnt an inherently accurate weapon suystem (its pretty much a given that in a CQB situation there are going to be other friendlies in the area), lacks a precision shot capability, has limited ammunition on the platform, and is slow to reload..

Pistol rounds depending on circumstances and medium often significantly over penetrate in CQB situations where 556 does not.. and lack the down range ballistic "kill" capacity of even a small caliber centerfire rifle (like 556)..

A PCC or a shotgun... or even a bowie knife.. is certainly better than nothing.. If a PCC or a shotgun is what you have... then by all means use it.. The most important weapons anyone brings to a fight is their brain and their mindset..

But dont kid yourself into believing bullshit like a PCC or shotgun is superior in any way, shape, or form to a centerfire rifle in anything other than very specific and limited scenarios...

If the opposite were true.. why do organizations that can literally choose any weapon system on the planet they want, not still conduct CQB with shotguns and pistol caliber weapon systems? And havent done it in 20 years...


All the above said.. I LOVE the HK MP5.. I conducted hundreds of raids with one years ago.. trained heavily with it.. and think it is the quintessential SMG.. Accurate, reliable, easy to shoot, etc... I also carried a Rem 870 and a Benelli M2 professionally for a while...

But, like everyone else.. the minute a reliable centerfire rifle caliber option became available.. I dumped the MP5 and shotgun and never looked back..

It is simply that much better in every measurable and meaningful way.. if you are talking having the sad misfortune of needing to shoot people at CQB distances..