A. Francotte Mauser 10.75x68

[GoldGhost]

I recently picked this rifle up in an auction, with intentions to convert it to .404 Jeffery. After conflicting opinions on doing so, I wanted to see what information I could gather about the rifle here on AH. Availability of ammunition and components initially spurred my interest in the conversion, but I don’t want to be molesting a rifle that may have more value left in its original configuration. If you have any information about this rifle, or an opinion on the 404 conversion, I’d love to hear it. I’m not completely opposed to keeping it as is, and hunting with it. So any info on the cartridge and possible procurement of reloading components would be greatly appreciated as well!
here is the description of the rifle from the auction- it may be of some use.

A. Francotte Mauser Bolt Action Sporting Rifle, #19924, 10.75mm x 68mm, 24" barrel, blued finish, top of chamber engraved with a matte finish, two-stage trigger, lever safety, ramp style front sight with removable bead and drift adjustable fixed rear sight with folding leaf for 100 & 200 yards. Barrel engraved "A Francotte a Liege" with caliber, Belgian proof marks, hinged floorplate with locking lever, checkered walnut Monte Carlo stock with cheekpiece, horn end cap, grip cap, and checkered buttplate, sling swivels mounted on barrel and rear of stock. Rare, original condition, having never been fitted with a scope. Condition is excellent retaining approx. 97% original blued finish, with wear lines from use on the bolt body, fading and light scratches on the bolt release lever spring, wear to the finish on the front action screw head, light wear and scratches on the floorplate, and light freckling on the bottom of the trigger guard. Action and safety work properly, bore is bright with light soiling which may clean to excellent. Stock is excellent with only one tiny ding near the buttplate on the left side, one or two tiny scratches, and crisp checkering. Horn buttplate shows minor insect damage, freckling, and wear to the finish on the screws. Overall, a beautiful gun showing only light use.

thank you for any and all information!
-GoldGhost

 

[Lance Hopper]

Please, dear God, do not convert that gun. It's not just going to fall in your lap, but, dies and brass can be found with a little patience.

 

[GoldGhost]

Please, dear God, do not convert that gun. It's not just going to fall in your lap, but, dies and brass can be found with a little patience.

You’re not the first to have such a reaction. Would you mind elaborating? Ie, info on the maker, the rifle itself, or the caliber? What is a rifle like this worth?

 

[Jeff505]

GoldGhost, it’s hard to sell an item on AH as a new member. I see where this gun was purchased on February 18th from Orange coast auctions. Do you have any pictures other then the auction photos. Welcome to AH and good luck with your sale.

 

[GoldGhost]

GoldGhost, it’s hard to sell an item on AH as a new member. I see where this gun was purchased on February 18th from Orange coast auctions. Do you have any pictures other than the auction photos. Welcome to AH and good luck with your sale.

Any information pertaining to the rifle would be greatly helpful, but it is not for sale at this point. Thanks!

 

[Ravensview]

GoldGhost, it’s hard to sell an item on AH as a new member. I see where this gun was purchased on February 18th from Orange coast auctions. Do you have any pictures other then the auction photos. Welcome to AH and good luck with your sale.

I don’t think he is selling it, he is looking for information about the rifle and it’s caliber

 

[Lance Hopper]

If I'm reading it correctly I don't think the rifle is for sale. Just looking for information about whether he should convert or not. I'm no expert on the maker, but I believe it is a Belgian gun maker. Has a very good reputation for making solid quality firearms. Value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder in a cartridge like this. I personally have two. I owned the dies and brass before I ever bought my 1st rifle, because I knew I was going to have 1, 1 day and ended up with 2 inside of a month. A Google search of the gun maker should pull up a reasonable amount of basic information. I'm sure others on here with personal knowledge or on the guns themselves will be chiming in shortly.

 

[GoldGhost]

If I'm reading it correctly I don't think the rifle is for sale. Just looking for information about whether he should convert or not. I'm no expert on the maker, but I believe it is a Belgian gun maker. Has a very good reputation for making solid quality firearms. Value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder in a cartridge like this. I personally have two. I owned the dies and brass before I ever bought my 1st rifle, because I knew I was going to have 1, 1 day and ended up with 2 inside of a month. A Google search of the gun maker should pull up a reasonable amount of basic information. I'm sure others on here with personal knowledge or on the guns themselves will be chiming in shortly.

You’ve read correctly. As a member of other forums I understand the reaction though. I’ve done the simple Google searching, but I’m trying to gather as much information as possible! Thank you!

 

[93marlin]

Oh, do not EVER change anything on this rifle! Francotte is one of the best makers of fine Belgian firearms.
Re-barreling it would be a travesty!

 

[Red Leg]

View attachment 519782
I recently picked this rifle up in an auction, with intentions to convert it to .404 Jeffery. After conflicting opinions on doing so, I wanted to see what information I could gather about the rifle here on AH. Availability of ammunition and components initially spurred my interest in the conversion, but I don’t want to be molesting a rifle that may have more value left in its original configuration. If you have any information about this rifle, or an opinion on the 404 conversion, I’d love to hear it. I’m not completely opposed to keeping it as is, and hunting with it. So any info on the cartridge and possible procurement of reloading components would be greatly appreciated as well!
here is the description of the rifle from the auction- it may be of some use.

A. Francotte Mauser Bolt Action Sporting Rifle, #19924, 10.75mm x 68mm, 24" barrel, blued finish, top of chamber engraved with a matte finish, two-stage trigger, lever safety, ramp style front sight with removable bead and drift adjustable fixed rear sight with folding leaf for 100 & 200 yards. Barrel engraved "A Francotte a Liege" with caliber, Belgian proof marks, hinged floorplate with locking lever, checkered walnut Monte Carlo stock with cheekpiece, horn end cap, grip cap, and checkered buttplate, sling swivels mounted on barrel and rear of stock. Rare, original condition, having never been fitted with a scope. Condition is excellent retaining approx. 97% original blued finish, with wear lines from use on the bolt body, fading and light scratches on the bolt release lever spring, wear to the finish on the front action screw head, light wear and scratches on the floorplate, and light freckling on the bottom of the trigger guard. Action and safety work properly, bore is bright with light soiling which may clean to excellent. Stock is excellent with only one tiny ding near the buttplate on the left side, one or two tiny scratches, and crisp checkering. Horn buttplate shows minor insect damage, freckling, and wear to the finish on the screws. Overall, a beautiful gun showing only light use.

thank you for any and all information!
-GoldGhost

You have a classic pre-WWII India and East African rifle in its original chambering by a well regarded gunmaker. I am guessing it is a 7.5 to 8 lb rifle which would be perfect for that cartridge. It was used extensively, particularly in East Africa and India, before the war. Taylor didn't like it because it fired a light for caliber bullet (347 gr) at 2200 fps or so which didn't quite generate 4k foot pounds of energy. With a modern bullet, that makes it a pretty good tiger or lion rifle, but like a .404, you would need to pick your shots at a buffalo.

I had an Oberndorf version of your rifle and finally let it go. After playing with various loads, I concluded a .375 in the same weight range was a far more versatile rifle. That said, with the right bullet and right marksman, it would perform.

I have two problems with the the conversion idea. First, it would destroy what are becoming ever more rare examples of Germanic safari and shikar rifles. Secondly, assuming my weight guess is close, it is too light for a .404. That means either making it barrel heavy with a proportionately heavy barrel or adding weight to the butt. In the end you would have a Franken rifle of questionable utility and no collector value.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

That’s a great rifle in magnificent shape!

 

[318AE]

That’s a great rifle. Congratulations. It looks “well bought”, which is not easy to do in auctions today. I highly recommend you enjoy it as is. In additon to the other astute points about collector value and weight, as a secondary consideration, conversion may not be as simple as it appears at first glance.

While the bore diameter is the same, it’s likely much more involved than a chamber reamer. You will need to enlarge the bolt face, and likely additional work to the feed rails and magazine to get it to feed as well as it does now. With the cost of that work in addition to the cost of the rifle, it’s likely better to just find a 404.

With a modern bullet, I would be completely comfortable hunting buffalo with it as-is. Perhaps some of the custom ammunition reloaders can help get you shooting….I might even have a box of Bertram brass sitting around - let me check etc.

 

[DG Wannabe]

Whatever you do with it, it is a beautiful rifle! I’m not sure the brass for the current caliber is any harder to find than that of 404J. Good luck!

 

[Dewald]

Great rifle. Don’t underestimate the ability of 350gr odd bullets in 400cal. Ive hunted lots with 350gr .416 A-frames in the.416 Ruger at 2400fps, and they do well

 

[GoldGhost]

That's actually why I ended up "pulling the trigger" on it so to speak, despite admittedly not knowing much about the caliber. I thought it went far too cheaply. With my trip to SA coming up in May, I had been hoping to come across a rifle suited for the trip and happened across this rifle and assumed it would bring much more than I needed to spend. Luckily it didn't! You mentioned "custom ammunition reloaders" would you mind pointing me in their direction? I enjoy reloading, so I may have gotten lucky in finding a 10.75x68 if I'm able to find the components. If you would be able to spare the brass, I'd be forever grateful. Thank you!

 

[VertigoBE]

Francotte was one of the top Belgian makers,and this looks like a great example of a working rifle for dangerous game. Converting it to another more practical caliber, would destroy any value it has.

I would guess, depending on the exact state of the rifle you could get between 2.5 and 3.5keur for such an unadorned rifle. Converting it, would mean sub 1.5keur value after the expenditure of the conversion.

Keep it as is, enjoy the workmanship on it, and keep a look out for components to reload, so one day you can have the old gal sing again.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Beautiful legendary rifle in excellent caliber.

 

[HWL]

I enjoy reloading, so I may have gotten lucky in finding a 10.75x68 if I'm able to find the components. If you would be able to spare the brass, I'd be forever grateful. Thank you!

Cases are available from www.huelsenmanufaktur.de

HWL

 

[PerH]

Woodleigh manual have data for 10,75 with both 347 an up to 400 grain bullets

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Woodleigh manual have data for 10,75 with both 347 an up to 400 grain bullets

I believe it’s possible to get the 400 grain bullets up to 2150 fps?