A Word Of Warning To All Aspiring Elephant Hunters

[Hunter-Habib]

I see a very disconcerting trend lately, based on my interactions with many of our fellow forum members who aspire to hunt elephants in the future. Many gents here consider using Northfork Cup Point Solid bullets for their impending elephant hunt.

Gents, I can’t issue a word of warning strong enough against this practice ! These bullets were not designed for elephant hunting. They were designed for departing shots on Cape buffalo & such. That’s why they’re engineered to rivet. They’re only ”Solids“ by name.

Remember that for elephant hunting, expansion is your enemy. Any expansion whatsoever. So be smart, be safe & be responsible. Use proper solids for elephant hunting (like Northfork’s very own flat point solid which they specifically designed for this purpose).

Warmest Regards,
Habib

P.S: Yes, I know. There have been documented cases of hunters successfully using Northfork Cup Point Solids to down elephants via lung shots or side brain shots on cow elephants. But they’re far from ideal for the job.

 

[CAustin]

Used Hornady DGS myself, brain shot, and could have reloaded the bullet.

 

[rookhawk]

Used Hornady DGS myself, brain shot, and could have reloaded the bullet.

This. Don't mess with proven success over 100 years. A FMJ lead core solid by a well regarded name is the solution: Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer, Hornady DGS, Woodleigh Traditional Solid.

Too many gimmicks in the market today. Gimmicks that are designed to come apart like the lunar LEM module, controled fragmentation, partial opening tips, etc. It's all sexy marketing nonsense when all you need is something that shoots in a straight line without deflection and without expansion.

 

[Rare Breed]

I see a very disconcerting trend lately, based on my interactions with many of our fellow forum members who aspire to hunt elephants in the future. Many gents here consider using Northfork Cup Point Solid bullets for their impending elephant hunt.

Gents, I can’t issue a word of warning strong enough against this practice ! These bullets were not designed for elephant hunting. They were designed for departing shots on Cape buffalo & such. That’s why they’re engineered to rivet. They’re only ”Solids“ by name.

Remember that for elephant hunting, expansion is your enemy. Any expansion whatsoever. So be smart, be safe & be responsible. Use proper solids for elephant hunting (like Northfork’s very own flat point solid which they specifically designed for this purpose).

Warmest Regards,
Habib

P.S: Yes, I know. There have been documented cases of hunters successfully using Northfork Cup Point Solids to down elephants via lung shots or side brain shots on cow elephants. But they’re far from ideal for the job.

As always thanks for your wisdom and experience!!! I was thrilled with my CEB solids on my hunt

 

[DieJager]

Used Hornady DGS myself, brain shot, and could have reloaded the bullet.

That is what I plan to use , hopefully in the near future

 

[Nhoro]

I would add that you must make sure that your chosen load feeds well. Hornady DGS has a flat nose and caused problems in my CZ. I worked on the feeding until DGS and Peregrine copper solids load flawlessly. Woodleigh solids are very good for feeding reliability. I would add Woodleigh hydro to the list of reliable solids.

 

[michael458]

I see a very disconcerting trend lately, based on my interactions with many of our fellow forum members who aspire to hunt elephants in the future. Many gents here consider using Northfork Cup Point Solid bullets for their impending elephant hunt.

Gents, I can’t issue a word of warning strong enough against this practice ! These bullets were not designed for elephant hunting. They were designed for departing shots on Cape buffalo & such. That’s why they’re engineered to rivet. They’re only ”Solids“ by name.

Remember that for elephant hunting, expansion is your enemy. Any expansion whatsoever. So be smart, be safe & be responsible. Use proper solids for elephant hunting (like Northfork’s very own flat point solid which they specifically designed for this purpose).

Warmest Regards,
Habib

P.S: Yes, I know. There have been documented cases of hunters successfully using Northfork Cup Point Solids to down elephants via lung shots or side brain shots on cow elephants. But they’re far from ideal for the job.

I am in 100% Agreement with every word by @Hunter-Habib

It bears repeating............

 

[Rich s]

Thank you. I was thinking of using the cup point solids next year on my tuskless hunt. I’ve got some CEB’s ordered now.

 

[fourfive8]

There may have been some discussion of it but I don’t see a trend of recommending the Cup Point Solid for elephant. But I may have missed it. I doubt this topic would have garnered as much attention if someone may have mentioned the relatively soft Woodleigh Weldcore for that purpose

I have used the Cup Point Solid with great and consistent results. I consider it a type of extreme soft point designed to penetrate straight and deep. I think that was the purpose for North Fork designing it in the first place. For jobs that call for maximum straight line penetration nothing does better than the various designs of monolithic flat point solids.

I see old style cup and core round nose “solids” recommended in the same breath as the extreme criticism of the Cup Point Solid… huh? If anything those old cup and core, full patch, round nose “solids” are much more prone to erratic behavior than the monolithic Cup Point Solid by North Fork or certainly a well designed monolithic flat point. That round nose profile is prone to veering behavior and if it yaws too much, can bend or even shed the core.

 

[TOBY458]

@michael458 , you may have covered this before, but does your research show the cup point solids and woodleigh hydros to be of similar performance?

 

[sureshot375]

I’ve never understood the search for the latest and greatest solid. To my knowledge all of the modern solids work just fine.

The cup point is for sure not proper elephant elephant medicine.

 

[michael458]

I see old style cup and core round nose “solids” recommended in the same breath as the extreme criticism of the Cup Point Solid… huh? If anything those old cup and core, full patch, round nose “solids” are much more prone to erratic behavior than the monolithic Cup Point Solid by North Fork or certainly a well designed monolithic flat point. That round nose profile is prone to veering behavior and if it yaws too much, can bend or even shed the core.

And yet Another very Wise and well known by experience statement that also should be repeated, and recognized for its wisdom and advice. There are some very well placed individuals here, it would be to ones advantage to listen to them

Thank you @fourfive8

Elephant, only proper designed Flat Nose Solids should apply for this mission. End of Story.

No doubt about it, the North Fork CPS is not designed for this mission. This is a limited penetration solid, it is designed to maximize meplat size by fooling the medium or tissue that the bullet is actually bigger than it is. Made from Copper, the copper will flow when terminal penetration begins. The depth of penetration is limited by these factors. Coming into contact with heavy bone will distort the copper on the nose, and then all bets of straight line penetration are off. Even Solid Copper Bullets, will start to flow and move in tissue, the larger the caliber you get less distortion, but lesser calibers can distort even proper designed Flat Nose to the point that straight line penetration is effected, and depth as well. North Fork CPS are designed for First shots, or second shots on buffalo and other game to produce more trauma than a standard FN Solid, but not as much as a full premium or trauma inflicting bullet.

This is NOT a bullet for elephant

I see Woodliegh Hydro Mentioned too....... This is also a "Limited Penetration Solid" and designed to cause Trauma up front by the design of the nose, very similar to the North Fork CPS. It also is not a deep diving solid in the traditional sense of the meaning...........It can also distort on the nose and move off course if heavy bone is contacted.

This is typical behavior of any and all Round Nose Solids..... so much so I quit testing on the range, they would exit the box, and do all sorts of damage to the range.........

Failures of a couple of bullets sent to me some years ago........

Now, compare these Properly Designed Flat Nose Solids, designed to penetrate Straight and Deep.....

Does this help your understanding somewhat of just how designs work and what they do?

Limited Penetration Solids.....Designed to produce trauma up front, and also give good penetration. In Between Bullet, Not a Premium expanding, or Gen1 Gen II CNC Trauma Inflicting, and not a deep diving solid either.
North Fork CPS
Woodleigh
Lehigh Extreme Penetrater and Extreme Defense

Deep Diving Solids.....Designed to penetrate extreme depth and straight line penetration
CEB #13 Solids
North Fork Solids (newer Design similar to CEB)
Barnes FN Solids

 

[michael458]

@michael458 , you may have covered this before, but does your research show the cup point solids and woodleigh hydros to be of similar performance?

Yes Toby, I think I posted above before I saw this post, does that answer your question, or do we need more? North Fork and Hydro, limited penetration solids, not deep divers........

I’ve never understood the search for the latest and greatest solid. To my knowledge all of the modern solids work just fine.

To drive Deep and Mostly consistently straight. That is the "Search"....... Not all solids are created equal, and there is a tremendous amount of science behind the designs to achieve not only depth of penetration, but stability during terminal penetration, straight line penetration. It does you great disservice to fire a bullet at the mark, and the bullet veers off course missing its primary destination.

Meplat Size and Nose Profile is #1 and #2 of the Primary Factors of Solid Terminal Performance.

Stability and Straight Line Penetration........

Not all "Modern Solids" are created Equal

Old Style North Forks with straight Profile

And now, again, properly designed solids that are stable during terminal penetration because of meplat size and nose profile........... along with some other lesser factors.........

 

[Rule 303]

I would add that you must make sure that your chosen load feeds well. Hornady DGS has a flat nose and caused problems in my CZ. I worked on the feeding until DGS and Peregrine copper solids load flawlessly. Woodleigh solids are very good for feeding reliability. I would add Woodleigh hydro to the list of reliable solids.

In regards to the Hydro's, so would I, they have worked well on the 2 Elephants I have taken and the one Buff. Travelled the full length of the buff, in the chest and stop near the skin on the rump.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Thanks again Michael. An Amazing amount of FREE real data for us to make our choices from.

 

[dougfinn]

While we are on the subject of solids, has anyone tried the Barnes Buster? I bought and loaded some for my 45-90 to use for plinking and target use. I’ve read mixed reports on them, some saying they do produce a bit of a mushroom, and others saying they are just a plain old solid. Anyone one know one way or the other? Thanks.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

While we are on the subject of solids, has anyone tried the Barnes Buster? I bought and loaded some for my 45-90 to use for plinking and target use. I’ve read mixed reports on them, some saying they do produce a bit of a mushroom, and others saying they are just a plain old solid. Anyone one know one way or the other? Thanks.

Hi, @dougfinn
Barnes Buster bullets are not true solids. They are designed to rivet while still holding mostly together. Ideal for shoulder bone/scapula shots or quartering away shots on large framed non dangerous game.