Acquired a 500 Nitro for Black - now what?

[rookhawk]

i got a vintage Brit box lock in 500 nitro for black. It's regulation load appears to be a 440gr .510" bullet and 55gr of cordite. In my search it seems that woodleigh makes a jacketed bullet and that is the entire suite of options for this caliber?

-how can I affordably regulate this gun?

-do they make solids?

-is this gun with a soft point ethical for Cape buffalo?

-it has 5 folding leafs from 100-500 yards. Do I infer that it should regulate to shoot parallel and NOT cross at 50?

How do I get started? I have reloaded in the past but I sold off my gear. I gather I need a set of dies that are custom (who makes?) and a magnum press with enough travel.

Graem's book is enroute.

Thanks!

 

[spike.t]

wondering how its made for black powder if its regulated with 55gr of cordite?

cord·ite
ˈkôrˌdīt/
noun

1. a smokeless explosive made from nitrocellulose, nitroglycerine, and petroleum jelly, used in ammunition.

 

[rookhawk]

Every English traditional double rifle cartridge of note evolved three generations of cartridge versions.

-BPE - black powder express
-nitro for black powder (a nitro cellulous load to black powder equivalent service pressure)
-nitro express (a modern, hot load)


Guns made in the early 20th century were proofed for "nitro for black powder" which is a unique cartridge. You may not use nitro express load recipes in these guns.

 

[spike.t]

ok thanks never been into black powder so you made me look it up just now . what is the full cordite loading for the .500 if the 55grn is for the lower pressure loading?

 

[rookhawk]

Spike, I don't know and I hate to even publish what it would be as it can dangerously confuse those in this thread.

The regulation load for my gun is 440gr bullet around .510" diameter and 55gr of cordite. What that will work out to in a modern powder to provide an equivalent regulation is unknown by me and is part of my initial questions.

 

[Red Leg]

The nitro for black cordite loads were intended to essentially duplicate the BP ballistics. We have had this argument on a different thread, but I would in no way consider that a buffalo load. It would make a fine 125m boar and stag rifle, assuming you could find a load which would regulate.

There are formulas which give equivalent nitro for black loadings. I am also not going to get into that (the Dacron filling can also get you in trouble) but you can likely find some of Ross Seyfried's articles which go into those sorts of loads.

 

[CTDolan]

It is fully capable if taking a buffalo, WITH A PROPER BULLET, but better options certainly exist.

As for the whole nitro-for-black thing, these were transitional firearms, and so, it was a multifaceted paradigm.

 

[cal pappas]

With the three cartridge types listed above, add "light nitro" to the list.
BPE and NFB doubles should regulate with 55 grains of IMR 4198 and a 440-grain bullet. Maybe = or - a grain or two. No affordable regulation is necessary. If your rifle won't shoot at all accurately, a few gunsmiths are qualified to re regulate it for you.
Cape buffalo is no problem with a 440-grain Woodleigh soft or a hard lead bullet.
I don't believe Woodleigh makes solids for this cartridge but custom makers can make them for you--at a price.
Graeme's book is excellent. In my Double Rifle Primer book I cover a few more topics--see it on my website <calpappas.com> Many here can attest to its quality.
Reloading is simple and straight forward with nothing that will jump out and bite you.
Your rifle will shoot well to 500 yards. However, most if not all shooters (myself included) can't. In 25 years of hunting and shooting with doubles, I've never used more than the first leaf.
Cheers,
Cal

 

[matt85]

the woodleigh handloading manual offers nitro for black load data with modern powders. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/579667/woodleigh-bullets-loading-manual

you will find mixed reviews on whether or not the 500 BPE (even with nitro for black) is suitable for cape buffalo. however most people will say its NOT suitable for thick skinned dangerous game. i fall into the crowd that believes the 440gr .510" bullet at such low velocities is not suitable cape buffalo. in my opinion it would at best only be suitable for broad side shots and you would run a high risk of only wounding the animal on quartering shots.

the 500 BPE was designed for and originally used for medium game durring the black powder days.

-matt

 

[rookhawk]

Cal,

I was reading your site just today! Nice to see you hear. I'll have to get your book as I just learned it exists.

Is there a cheaper way to get this gun going than buying Kynoch or Superior at $18 a cartridge if I want to avoid hand loads? Cal, do you happen to have a trove of brass and dies for sale? (Used to handload, will do so again once I move in next 6 months)

 

[cal pappas]

If you don't hand load, you are at the mercy of Superior, Kynamco, and maybe 1-2 others. I have dies and brass for both the 3 and 3 1/4" but just enough for my life span. Both, and a shell holder, are available from Huntingtons and others.
Cal

 

[AZDAVE]

If you really want to shoot old guns, reloading is a necessity unless you are wealthy. You can but 500NE brass and dies from all the usual places, "MidwayUSA, Graff and Sons etc" Read Gream's book and it will provide a wealth of knowledge. I haven't read Cal's book, I need to get it. (I have his Bore rifle book and it's great). I have a old Woodward 500BPE and the 440 Woodleighs work like a charm in my rifle. Haven't had time to try paper patched lead yet but that is on the things to do list.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=100&newcategorydimensionid=20214 brass in stock

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/2160? Dies in stock

 

[cal pappas]

Not only is reloading a tremendous money saver, but you can taylor your loads to your rifle to adjust point of impact and (hopefully) avoid the cost of re regulation.
AZ Dave--email for my book. Only positive reviews so far!
Cal

 

[AkMike]

You can also get Hawk bullets soft point and solid for that beast. Hornady make affordable dies for that beast also.
Lee makes a good single stage press for under $100 that'll handle the longer cartridges.


I've got all of Cal's books and in each one I learn a tid bit or two.

 

[Bullthrower338]

You guys are going to make me buy a BPE! I have a nice selection of sporting literature and Cal's books are among them now, fine works they are! Be warned though the .600 Nitro book will cause uncontrollable drooling!
Cheers,
Cody

 

[rookhawk]

Update:


Gun has a proper load now. Brass obtained, had the loads made for 440gr soft jacket and 450gr thick jacket woodleighs with the .065" copper jacket.

I'm looking forward to trying it on buffalo next summer and hippo as well.

Thanks everyone for your input and advice, I'm good to go.

 

[cal pappas]

Congratulations!
You are set to go the the jacket is more than thick enough to penetrate any buffalo on earth.
Cal

 

[BRICKBURN]

Should be interesting to read about the results.

Good luck.

 

[ikeda]

If your loads don't work out try 47 gr of IMR 4759 with a 440 gr Woodleigh and Magnum primers. (should give ~1900 fps)
Any other powder I tried in the big .50 cases would occasionally hang fire.
Never had an issue with 4759.

 

[rookhawk]

The final regulation load was:

53grs of IMR4198
440 Gr Woodleigh Softpoint Or .450 Gr Woodleigh Softpoint (the latter being thick jacketed)
CCI Magnum Primer
Poly Stuffing

Left and right barrel are exactly 2" apart center to center at 50 yards off sticks.

Looking forward to trying my hand at Hippo, Eland and Buffalo with the old girl.