Advice for my rifle

[TucsonFX4]

I figured I’d get some input from more experienced Model 70 owners on the best way to proceed.

I have a Win Model 70 Sporter in 7mm RM. It does not shoot very accurately and it is frustrating me. I do have reloading components for it, but I feel like I would be wasting my time and precious components trying to find an accurate load for the rifle, given its poor factory load performance.

Here’s a summary of my shooting results with it:
I have shot about a dozen different factory loads through the rifle, a variety of grains, manufacturers, and premium vs value lines. The results are all bad. 160 grain Nosler Partition shoots a little over 3” groups at 100 yards. 162 grain Hornady SST Superformance shoots a little under 3” groups at 100 yards. 139 grain Browning BXS shoots just over 2” groups at 100 yards (most accurate load). I have shot numerous other factory loads, all with similar results.

What would you folks recommend I do? My choices seem to be: reload and hope I don’t waste too much precious powder and primers; contact Winchester and possibly send it in; contact a gunsmith and pay to have worked on (what work?); sell it and buy another that will hopefully produce better results. Feel free to throw out any other options you may suggest.

Thanks!

 

[TucsonFX4]

Correction: Hornady SST grouping is 3.6” at 100 yards. Also, 150 grain Hornady Outfitter CX shoots 3.4” at 100 yards.

 

[TNDave]

Since everything is shooting badly I’d suggest checking torque on stock and action and also scope bases and rings. If that doesn’t work check free floating on barrel. Then I’d consider gunsmith or rebarelling. I had a rifle that I had the exact same experience with, I wanted to wrap it around a tree

 

[Scott CWO]

Is the barrel free floated from the stock? Can you slide a piece of paper between the barrel and stock almost all the way up to the action? Stock might need bedded around action and barrel free floated. Fairly easy fix with a good gunsmith. Have him check the end of barrel - the crown for damage.

I’m assuming you have checked the scope mounts/bases/rings for tightness. What kind are they? Scope name? Tried another scope?

Have you cleaned the barrel with a nylon brush, using a bore guide and solvent and then a bore guide with lots of patches and solvent until patches come out clean? Then some more dry patches? First couple shots might be fliers until the barrel gets a bit dirty or fouled but then groups should improve. After I’m happy with groups, I run a single dry patch and leave the barrel fouled if I’m going hunting soon. If you’re not going hunting and live in a humid area, clean the barrel and run an oily patch before storage. Then when ready to use it again, run a dry patch and shoot a couple rounds to lightly foul the barrel again to be ready to hunt.

 

[Fixfire]

Before doing anything, I would have a friend shoot the rifle and compare results - to eliminate any potential of user error.

 

[Berettaco]

All the above are the exact course of action I would suggest.
1. Scope - check/torque bases and rings. Maybe change scopes to eliminate that as a possibility
2. Check to see if barrel is free floated
3. Clean copper out of barrel
4. If it has a muzzle brake - remove it and shoot without

How many consecutive shots are you firing - is the barrel extremely hot?
Are you using bags on a bench?

 

[uplander01]

Some rifles just don't behave, going down the rabbit hole of having a bunch of stuff done to it may not be worth it, trade it off for something that will more likely work. Untouched factory rifles can be great, or they can be terrible. The first things I would check which one has been mention:

1.Action screws torque to around 35inch pounds if a wood gun
2.Scope Base Screws
3.Scope Ring Screws
4.Get yourself some Wipe out bore cleaning and let it sit in there overnight, you'll be shocked what comes out of the barrel.

 

[Joker12]

If it were my rifle I would first try free floating the barrel to see if that improves things. An easy way to check it is to cut some shims from something like an old credit card, pull the barreled action and use the shims to to bed the action on. This will effectively free float the barrel. Tighten the screws and shoot a couple of groups to see if things improve. If they do you can then fix it permanently. If accuracy doesn't improve then remove the temporary shims and try a bit of up pressure at the forend tip. For that simply cut up a business card for shims and try first one shim to put pressure on the barrel. I have seen that greatly improve accuracy. If that doesn't help then its likely a barrel problem. If you try those things you can isolate the problem without spending money unnecessarily. Good luck.

 

[Flewis]

What shape is the group, that may help solve the problem.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Since everything is shooting badly I’d suggest checking torque on stock and action and also scope bases and rings. If that doesn’t work check free floating on barrel. Then I’d consider gunsmith or rebarelling. I had a rifle that I had the exact same experience with, I wanted to wrap it around a tree

The barrel is free floating, and I just did the paper test to the receiver to confirm that seems fine.

What torque settings should the stock and action be at?

I recently swapped the bases and rings, and I’m getting the same results. I’m confident they are torqued properly and haven’t come loose.

From your suggestions, it sounds like I’m down to a gunsmith (if torque numbers are currently proper). Thanks for the input!

 

[TucsonFX4]

Is the barrel free floated from the stock? Can you slide a piece of paper between the barrel and stock almost all the way up to the action? Stock might need bedded around action and barrel free floated. Fairly easy fix with a good gunsmith. Have him check the end of barrel - the crown for damage.

I’m assuming you have checked the scope mounts/bases/rings for tightness. What kind are they? Scope name? Tried another scope?

Have you cleaned the barrel with a nylon brush, using a bore guide and solvent and then a bore guide with lots of patches and solvent until patches come out clean? Then some more dry patches? First couple shots might be fliers until the barrel gets a bit dirty or fouled but then groups should improve. After I’m happy with groups, I run a single dry patch and leave the barrel fouled if I’m going hunting soon. If you’re not going hunting and live in a humid area, clean the barrel and run an oily patch before storage. Then when ready to use it again, run a dry patch and shoot a couple rounds to lightly foul the barrel again to be ready to hunt.

It is factory free floated and I just did the paper test to verify nothing is out of whack. It is a recessed crown, and appears to be fine (not to say it couldn’t be off from the factory, but no dings or damage from me.)

Base and rings are now Leupold QR, they were Contessa steel. Results were the same with both setups. Scope is a Riton, I previously had a different scope on it and the results weren’t any better.

I’ve tried groups with a fouled barrel and clean barrel. My most recent session was after a very very thorough cleaning session, then half a dozen fouling rounds, then groups. Those were the groups I posted above.

 

[TucsonFX4]

Before doing anything, I would have a friend shoot the rifle and compare results - to eliminate any potential of user error.

I can definitely appreciate this advice. I will try it next opportunity I get. In my defense, I have a few other rifles that I shoot under one MOA with the same shooting setup (table, sled, etc).

 

[RTG]

Before doing anything, I would have a friend shoot the rifle and compare results - to eliminate any potential of user error.

My thoughts exactly. If the groups remain the same, sell it and start over. Maybe it's an easy fix or maybe you dump good money into a bad gun that you're never happy with. Every brand makes lemons sometimes. Punt.

 

[TucsonFX4]

If it were my rifle I would first try free floating the barrel to see if that improves things. An easy way to check it is to cut some shims from something like an old credit card, pull the barreled action and use the shims to to bed the action on. This will effectively free float the barrel. Tighten the screws and shoot a couple of groups to see if things improve. If they do you can then fix it permanently. If accuracy doesn't improve then remove the temporary shims and try a bit of up pressure at the forend tip. For that simply cut up a business card for shims and try first one shim to put pressure on the barrel. I have seen that greatly improve accuracy. If that doesn't help then its likely a barrel problem. If you try those things you can isolate the problem without spending money unnecessarily. Good luck.

It is already free floated, but I hadn’t heard of putting a little pressure on the barrel. I will try to remember that idea to test out.

 

[TucsonFX4]

What shape is the group, that may help solve the problem.

Generally triangular. Sometimes more horizontal, but I can’t think of any that were strung predominantly vertically.

 

[Scott CWO]

It is factory free floated and I just did the paper test to verify nothing is out of whack. It is a recessed crown, and appears to be fine (not to say it couldn’t be off from the factory, but no dings or damage from me.)

Base and rings are now Leupold QR, they were Contessa steel. Results were the same with both setups. Scope is a Riton, I previously had a different scope on it and the results weren’t any better.

I’ve tried groups with a fouled barrel and clean barrel. My most recent session was after a very very thorough cleaning session, then half a dozen fouling rounds, then groups. Those were the groups I posted above.

Get rid of it.

 

[BourbonTrail]

It is already free floated, but I hadn’t heard of putting a little pressure on the barrel. I will try to remember that idea to test out.

Weatherby uses the barrel contact on their thin profile barrels. It’s used to “tune” the barrel harmonics.

How old is the rifle? I’m wondering if the barrel has been shot out.

 

[ActionBob]

Do you have an owners manual? Get past all the safety stuff and read the parts about torquing the action.

Did you buy this new? You would be surprised how many new guns leave the factory without being properly torqued.

Do you have a proper inch pound torque wrench? It was mentioned above to torque to 35 inch pounds, I don't remember off hand on a Winchester. Look it up If! If you feel competent, take the gun apart. I've had new guns with sawdust in them. Make sure everything fits properly. Is there at tad bit of clearance at the tang as well as nothing loose in between where the action beds into the stock?While you at it, back that trigger screw off or take it out completely to lighten the trigger pull. These new guns have heavy trigger pulls set by lawyers not shooters. If you can get it down to 3 pounds seems to be a good compromise between safety and accuracy for many people. But set to your preference. That screw probably has a dab of loc tight on it and trigger pull is likely about 5 pounds.

If you don't have a torque wrench, buy a trigger pull scale at the same time. If you are not up to this. Take it to a gunsmith or sell it or trade it. I hate to see a poor shooter sold to someone but chances are it is fixable.

How new is it? Ruger or Kimber have people in Customer Service (Kimber you may need to get to the right person) who can talk you through issues. I had to send a new gun back to Ruger once. It was so bad they got it. Checked it out. Called to tell me they ran it through the shredder! And were sending me a new gun ASAP. That gun is capable of 1/4" 100 yard groups with high quality target ammo and no wind.

I would probably have someone else shoot it also. In my case my wife @Just Gina She's the better shot in our family

 

[7mmFan]

unless the rifle has some sentimental value I would sell it and move on. Better to cut your losses and invest in a rifle that should already group well. It doesn't take long paying a gunsmith to fix a rifle before you're upside down on it and can't really afford to sell it should you want to. I would rather spend that money on upgrading the scope or for more ammo and components. just my two cents.

 

[Flewis]

Generally triangular. Sometimes more horizontal, but I can’t think of any that were strung predominantly vertically.

May be scope or action screws. I have a wby that will do that if the screws are not perfect at 68 inch lbs