Barnes bullet expansion problems

[Kenneth McMillan]

I have seen on many deer stalking pages and it says not to use Barnes bullets as they do not expand well enough for UK deer stalking. Has anyone had any experience with Barnes bullets not expanding.

 

[USMA84DAB]

I guess I am gonna have to scratch my head on this...

A .375 Ruger at 50 yards - 250 grain Barnes TTSX 69.3 grains of RL15 - 2581 FPS, 3,698 FT-Lbs. fired from 20" barrel. This is the exit wound. Even on a "soft" deer at 50 yards, it expended just fine.

Only one data point, so statistically insignificant, but perhaps a start to the conversation.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I now use BARNES TTSX in every rifle I own. From .270 - 130 gr to .416 - 350 gr.
All reloads to BARNES reloading specifications.

I have encountered ONE bullet that did not perform as expected. That was due to a deflection before it hit the animal. Otherwise, no problems.

Used on everything from:
Red Duiker, Oribi (Equivalent to the little guys in the UK) to Eland, Kudu, Oryx (the same or bigger than Red's)

Granted I have recovered very few bullets. The exit holes tell the story though.

The last bullet recovered. From a Whitetail taken this year.

 

[Mike Van Horn]

I have used Barnes for years. Started with the original 130 grain in a 264 win mag.
Still using the new X bullets in the .257 Weatherby mag, 270 win, 7mm Weatherby mag, .340 Weatherby mag.
Taken coyotes, whitetail, mule deer and elk without any problems
It is a heavy constructed bullet, so it is important to match the bullet to the game and also the cartridge you are shooting.

 

[MAdcox]

I started using the original Barnes X in my 270win 25 years ago. I use it now in everything from my.223 up to 300wsm. I have taken everything from predators and hogs with the 223, deer and multiple elk with the 270, and kudu, gemsbok, impala, and blue wildebeest with the 300. Its a great bullet and very accurate out of every gun I have tried it through.
I had one "failure" on my kudu from the 300wsm. I posted it on the Bullet Performance Database thread here on AH. Failure is in " " because it was still a one shot kill with no tracking involved. It was due to a bad angle hitting bone and closing off the cavity preventing expansion.

Left bullet recovered from kudu. Right bullet recovered from 90 yard shot on blue wildebeest. That is the way all of mine have looked that I recovered except the one pictured here.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Kenneth, I’m wondering if you have been told that because Barnes bullets tend to be pass throughs. They may consider that dangerous because of animals behind the target animal, or because so much of the UK hunting is in highly populated areas.

I have used Barnes bullets with excellent killing success, but I have recovered very few. My recovered bullets have been from eland (250 TTSX), Cape buffalo (300 TSX), and lions (heavily muscled, 235 TSX).

Just my thoughts and experiences.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have seen on many deer stalking pages and it says not to use Barnes bullets as they do not expand well enough for UK deer stalking. Has anyone had any experience with Barnes bullets not expanding.

Kenneth,

If you look at the bullet in @MAdcox's post above and search around enough, I believe you'll find this was not a one off occurrence. I've seen a fair amount of similar results. I call it a bullet failure because the bullet failed to perform as expected.

When I've seen these sort of results however it was in the medium to small bore category. I don't believe I've ever seen it in the bigger bores where such a failure would result in a potentially dangerous follow up of say a wounded buffalo.

The Barnes bullets are not my particular favorites but for a different reason. You need to start with a very clean bore, virtually copper free. Once the copper build up in the barrel becomes bad enough, accuracy will drop off and quickly. I'm sure it is a function of not just the bullet but also the tolerance of your barrel. What I've seen in most of my rifles is that within 10 shots give or take, I can see the copper building up at the crown and that accuracy is tailing off.

So if you give these a go, beware of this issue.

 

[gillettehunter]

I have killed a few animals with Barnes bullets. Phil has a good point above about copper buildup in some barrels. I also had that happen. Usually going to be pass throughs and that could be the concern in England. The bulk of the "failures" I've seen pics of or heard about are the TSX's. I can't remember one with the TTSX's. I'm sure they occur, as with any bullet. If you want to use them I'd suggest the TTSX's. If reloading they seem to preform best at higher speeds. Good luck.
Bruce

 

[Rum Runner]

I recently used Barnes TSX bullets (.270, 140 gr., 2700 fps) on an Oribi and an Impala. In both cases, the bullets performed very well. We were able to retrieve the bullet from the Impala; a one shot kill, and here it is. I've gravitated to Barnes because I sometimes hunt in California, where lead is not allowed. However, I prefer Swift A-Frames...

 

[BRICKBURN]

I'll leave this graphic picture for you to click on if you are interested.

The 180 grain TTSX bullet entered .75 inches low, touched hair and went through the hide and the muscle (no bone) at the point indicated by the green dot. (Not my shot by the way)

I stole @USMA84DAB photo for further use here.

The result of the bullet expansion in that very small muscle is in the THUMBNAIL. Click if you want to look. You will note it is not a pencil hole.

 

[Newboomer]

I use Barnes TSX exclusively except for 6.5 CR where I used Hornady 143 ELD-X because I couldn't find a Barnes that fit my needs. I used 7RM with 160g TSX for pg up to and including zebra, waterbuck, both wildebeests and nyala. Barnes 350g TSX in 375HH for buf and eland. Excellent performance in all cases.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have seen on many deer stalking pages and it says not to use Barnes bullets as they do not expand well enough for UK deer stalking. Has anyone had any experience with Barnes bullets not expanding.

Kenneth
I use the 100gn TTSX in my 25, it may not kill fallow deer set like the SST, they may travel 20 yards but sometime the animals presentation angle may not be perfect. This is where the TTSX shows it's advantage

 

[Cody hunt4life]

Just to get used to shooting my new Bergara B14 HMR .300 Win Mag I’m using for a plains game hunt in June to SA, I took it with me on a whitetail hunt in Texas. I shot 3 deer with it and was shooting the 180gr Barnes TSX (because that’s what I’m using in SA) and it definitely had zero problems with expansion. Here is a picture on one I took with it that was quartered majorly away from me at approx 80 yards or so off the sticks (hence the blown out shoulder ). Had so much penetration it exited but the expansion of the exit was probably 5”+ in diameter

 

[Mike Van Horn]

I always read about the Barnes copper fouling a barrel. But l don't remember reading it about a A-Frame which also has a pure copper jacket.
Or the Northfork which is also a pure copper jacket.
Every gun is different. I am testing one right now that after a cleaning will not settle down and shoot good groups until after 12 rounds using Barnes bullets. I have also shoot 100 rounds through this gun using Barnes bullets without cleaning and no noticeable loss of accuracy , out to 400 yards

 

[BRICKBURN]

It is interesting how an old concern persists and gets repeated.
ie. Like Hornady DGX poor performance.
The problem being solved by the latest iteration of their bullet being bonded. That will not wipe away the history, but I have no doubt that Hornady will hope that it will fade.

I have never experienced excessive fouling with the Barnes bullets or loss of accuracy. However, I don't shoot hundreds of rounds at a time. I was not using Barnes bullets when they first came out. I am a late arrival to the Barnes party and perhaps things have changed the metal recipe.

Once shooters/hunters find an effective bullet or an ineffective bullet it tends to stick. Take the warnings and test the theory for yourself in your own firearm.

 

[sestoppelman]

Its an excellent bullet. We used 140 gr TSX on the last two trips on PG in my boys .284 Winchester including blue wildebeest, kudu, oryx etc. Zero complaints. Quick kills.

 

[Hunter4752001]

In my country, the original X bullets acquired a bad reputation for passing through deer without expanding, as did a few other high quality bullets including Woodleighs. However I have never heard of anyone having any issues with the TTSX style. They open quickly and still penetrate deeply. Also very accurate.

 

[fourfive8]

Those original smooth shanked Barnes X bullets were miserable hostile projectiles! Erratic pressures and internal ballistics. Took Barnes quite a few years to wake up and correct the issue with the banded (drive band) design. Since then very few issues.

Out of curiosity, I tested the low impact velocity performance of a 210 gr 338 TSX traveling at about 1300 fps into my wetpack media. Not likely to shoot anything at that velocity and the range required for that would be a silly stunt even in my pokie 338-06 with a muzzle vel of 2560- translating into about a 700 yd impact velocity. In my media, which is pretty severe, a 210 338 TSX traveling at about 1300 passed through the first few inches of "tissue" then the wood "bone" simulation before starting to show instability. Similar to results of many FMJ spire point tests in the past. Straight penetration was ok until the velocity and spin rate dropped and resistance was met. Then the nose yawing perturbation around the axis begins. It is revealed in the increasing angle (a curved, somewhat spiral path) of penetration away from original track axis. In my media that bullet with a more normal impact velocity (corrected for 100 yd range) will penetrate about 18" after opening up in normal four petal TSX fashion. The 1300 fps test bullet began the ever increasing oblique angle off axis at about 6-8" penetration and ended up exiting the saturated phone book media at about 20". The bullet track damage in the media showed the yawing attitude as it penetrated. I would guess it would have certainly and adequately penetrated and likely killed fairly well a deer sized animal but the track path would have been very unpredictable... not the best type performance. The bullet stayed in the confines of the wood trough and I was able to recover it. So my guess would be that somewhere between 1300 and probably 1600-1800 fps is where this bullet would show normal behavior with the petals beginning to folding back. I'll let someone else determine those thresholds in whatever media they use to test.

Pic of 1300 fps 210gr 338 TSX- media test

 

[JMM]

I have had issues with Barnes and also some successes. I guide for a big ranch in Texas and we have had trouble with TTSX and whitetails. Too many pencil in and pencil out shots with little/no blood trail. I believe it comes down to velocity. Driving at TTSX at high speeds and relatively light weight are fantastic for whitetail. In contradiction, I use the 110 grain TTSX at 3500 fps for culling whitetails at the ranch all the time. I have shot 100s of deer with that combo and it is great. I had trouble with pressure and expansion with the 168 grain in Namibia. I think the bullet is pretty long for the 06 case and I also had a couple of wildes that did has pass thrus without a lot of destruction. I use the 300 and 350 grain in my .416 Rigby and it performs great. But I am running it pretty fast and the retained bullets look like perfect photos.

 

[meigsbucks]

I haven’t taken as much game as many on here have, but I have taken twenty plus animals with Barnes TSX bullets and haven’t had a failure to expand.
As far as fouling, IMO, I’ve found they may foul slightly more than most cup and core. I’ve also found Swift AF foul about the same. Not enough to worry about.
NOTE: I tend to clean copper out of barrels at the 75-100 rd mark, no matter what bullets I’m using. Just seems easier to clean out before it builds up.